Trump's changes to Cuba travel from US

The Miami Herald has gotten a copy of what he will say tomorrow. Changes are to be in place in 90 days.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article156337129.html

Not surprised to see that it is postured to favor American capitalism. Selfishly, I'm glad it looks like my booking isn't affected. Still, unstable enough I wouldn't blame the lines for removing the routes (sadly).

So - basically, take a legitimate tour (via the cruise line) and you're good.

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The Miami Herald has gotten a copy of what he will say tomorrow. Changes are to be in place in 90 days.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article156337129.html

Too bad that we can't have an honest discussion about this here. Some good and some bad points if all that is being reported about this is true.

So - basically, take a legitimate tour (via the cruise line) and you're good.

No. Don't not confuse the group tours like Insight or Road Scholar who have applied for licenses for their group of participants for whom they guarantee a full time schedule that has been closely vetted by OFAC, and the cruise lines which seem to be applying for licenses on behalf of individual passengers and just throwing those who wish on a tour bus for some hours.

Too bad that we can't have an honest discussion about this here. Some good and some bad points if all that is being reported about this is true.

from the article linked above:

“…changes are intended to sharply curtail cash flow to the Cuban government and pressure its communist leaders to let the island’s fledgling private sector grow.”

And how does that happen if only the few US visitors rich enough to afford an Insight type group tour can travel? Most of the money goes to the US tour agency that sets things up. (Note: A land based trip, staying in Cuban homes and eating in private restaurants and getting around in private taxis costs about 20% of what those US based group tours charge.)

The visitors travelling in the way they are allowed to now, under Obama's changes, spend money in staying in private homes with Cubans and eating with them. The money goes directly to the owners of the BandBs, "the fledgling private sector".

What sense does it make to say you're trying to have that sector grow and actually cut off the 15% growth that's happened since Obama's changes went into effect?

Rubio is quoted as saying: “I’m trying to create a Cuban business sector that now goes to the Cuban government and pressures them to create changes.

I’m also trying to create a burgeoning business class independent of the government.”

That regular-folks-putting-pressure-on-the-Cuban-government didn't work as a strategy for the last 50 years. Not going to work now either. The "Cuban business sector" is likely to hunker down and wait until the next US administration gets in. They've gotten along for 50 years; they can wait 4 more. (or even 8) Most of the visitors to Cuba who support the tourist industry are not from the US anyway.

Again, how do you "create a burgeoning business class independent of the government" when you cut off the customers that the businesses cater to?

And when you don't let those potentially burgeoning businesses have access to the supplies they need to improve/upgrade their sector?

But here is an even more recent article this evening:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/15/trump-cuba-policy-239596

which says:

"Paying for goods and services from Cuba’s small class of independent entrepreneurs, known as “cuentapropistas” who often run small cafes or inns out of their own homes, will be permitted."

“No matter what President Trump may decide, the net impact on Cuba’s decision making on human rights issues will probably be nil,” said Mark Entwistle, a former Canadian ambassador to Cuba who now advises Canadian and American companies on doing business there.

While I don't disagree with a word you wrote about the pressure on the government and the embargo itself (I'm an economist by day) ... the reality is that the cruise lines won't risk huge OFAC fines for offering non-compliant tours.

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One more article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-15/trump-to-announce-plan-to-roll-back-parts-of-cuba-thaw-on-friday

... the reality is that the cruise lines won't risk huge OFAC fines for offering non-compliant tours.

So far, this is what has been said:

"Carnival, in a statement, said it’s pleased that the policy would "allow our ships to continue to sail to Cuba, but we must review the extent of the tightening of the travel rules that could potentially affect our guests. Our experience in Cuba this past year has been extremely positive."

Even scarier was an article on NBC this evening saying that as we pull out Russia was getting in, building a railroad line and possibly a military base. Damn that's right in my backyard.

Even scarier was an article on NBC this evening saying that as we pull out Russia was getting in, building a railroad line and possibly a military base. Damn that's right in my backyard.

Russia has been in for 50 years. JFK had that problem with Russia all those years ago. Remember your history.

I do remember history, it was scarey back in 63 and it's even scarier now, JFK was at least a diplomat.

I am interested in how it would affect AirBnB business. Bloomberg mentioned that the draft says banking transactions will not be affected which would still allow the business. AirBnB has really positively affect the Cuban people directly. Casa Particulares rentals have increase a ton with the changes.

No. Don't not confuse the group tours like Insight or Road Scholar who have applied for licenses for their group of participants for whom they guarantee a full time schedule that has been closely vetted by OFAC, and the cruise lines which seem to be applying for licenses on behalf of individual passengers and just throwing those who wish on a tour bus for some hours.

I don't think they were going to just pack people onto a bus and drive them around. My take on the cruise lines is that they are planning tours that fit the people-to-people requirement. They have to do this for their own protection--following the US rules keeps them out of trouble. Azamara's website says you can go out on your own, but you have to do something that fits one of the 12 categories (person-to-person being most likely), and have to sign some kind of affidavit saying what you did. I suspect other lines have similar options. This is as of Thursday evening as I write this.

It could all be different after Friday. The big question for passengers is how closely will the cruise lines "police" the independent activities. And I think that will depend on how the US government will monitor what the passengers do. I suspect the cruise lines were planning to keep the necessary paperwork but they never expected anyone to actually check it. Maybe they even figured they could turn a blind eye to what passengers chose to do.

If the rules tighten and Big Brother is watching closely, cruise lines might only allow passengers to go off the ship if they take a ship's tour, rather than risk trusting passengers to stick to approved activities. Something more like the full-time schedule the educational groups follow. It will be interesting to see what the penalty/punishment is for not sticking to the tighter rules.

This all could have been avoided if Raul had made a deal with a different hotel company to run that hotel in Havana... ;)

I am interested in how it would affect AirBnB business. Bloomberg mentioned that the draft says banking transactions will not be affected which would still allow the business. AirBnB has really positively affect the Cuban people directly. Casa Particulares rentals have increase a ton with the changes.

In regards to casas particulares:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/15/trump-cuba-policy-239596

which says:

"Paying for goods and services from Cuba’s small class of independent entrepreneurs, known as “cuentapropistas” who often run small cafes or inns out of their own homes, will be permitted."

However, note that the specific company AirBnB in particular has NOT positively effected the Cuban people directly. In fact, the company is not paying owners of casas.

(In Cuba, the payment policy has been for an AirBnB rep to deliver cash in person to the casa owner and this apparently has not been happening over the past months, according to reports. So, many casa owners are out of pocket for costs related to guests' stays and are complaining.)

The cost of a casa booked through AirBnB is significantly higher than the exact same casa booked through another casa particular service. Also, AirBnB is a US company, so profits go to a US entity. On the other hand, when booking that casa through a Cuban service, the profits support the Cuban people involved.

The article that I posted says that any changes will not take place until 90 days from the executive order. (Oh, those horrible, awful, unconstitutional executive orders!)

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In regards to casas particulares:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/15/trump-cuba-policy-239596

which says:

"Paying for goods and services from Cuba’s small class of independent entrepreneurs, known as “cuentapropistas” who often run small cafes or inns out of their own homes, will be permitted."

However, note that the specific company AirBnB in particular has NOT positively effected the Cuban people directly. In fact, the company is not paying owners of casas.

(In Cuba, the payment policy has been for an AirBnB rep to deliver cash in person to the casa owner and this apparently has not been happening over the past months, according to reports. So, many casa owners are out of pocket for costs related to guests' stays and are complaining.)

The cost of a casa booked through AirBnB is significantly higher than the exact same casa booked through another casa particular service. Also, AirBnB is a US company, so profits go to a US entity. On the other hand, when booking that casa through a Cuban service, the profits support the Cuban people involved.

How easily can Americans find a Cuban service and book through them? I had heard that people were booking Cuban stays through AirBnB, but didn't pay much attention, since I'm going (I hope!) on a cruise. I had no idea that they weren't paying the casas.

I don't think they were going to just pack people onto a bus and drive them around. My take on the cruise lines is that they are planning tours that fit the people-to-people requirement. They have to do this for their own protection--following the US rules keeps them out of trouble. Azamara's website says you can go out on your own, but you have to do something that fits one of the 12 categories (person-to-person being most likely), and have to sign some kind of affidavit saying what you did. I suspect other lines have similar options...

 

The big question for passengers is how closely will the cruise lines "police" the independent activities. And I think that will depend on how the US government will monitor what the passengers do. I suspect the cruise lines were planning to keep the necessary paperwork but they never expected anyone to actually check it. Maybe they even figured they could turn a blind eye to what passengers chose to do.

 

If the rules tighten and Big Brother is watching closely, cruise lines might only allow passengers to go off the ship if they take a ship's tour, rather than risk trusting passengers to stick to approved activities. Something more like the full-time schedule the educational groups follow. It will be interesting to see what the penalty/punishment is for not sticking to the tighter rules.

 

We returned last week from the 6/5 Norwegian Sky cruise to Havana. We booked a private auto tour (1955 Buick Super convertible!) for 6 hours, plus two tours booked through the cruise line - the "Evening Stroll in Havana" and "The Art of Cuba, Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow."

First of all, the tours booked through the cruise line did basically "just pack people onto a bus..." The evening stroll consisted of about 30+ people with one tour guide. Between the pace of the tour and the number of people, interactions with Cubans was not really possible. The art tour was better, but still consisted mainly of being bused around to 3 different art locations; however, I was able to talk to the tour guide and a couple of other Cubans about their art and Cuba today. The discussion with the tour guide was actually extensive and ranged from the art to economics and politics (they are definitely NOT restricted in what they can say). Very interesting.

Secondly, the OFAC affidavit we each had to complete and sign is a requirement of the U.S. government, not the cruise line. The 12 categories were determined by the U.S. State Dept. Similarly, I was required to keep a journal detailing what I did and who I spoke with (which I'm still working on - also a good remembrance of the trip). I am required to keep these two items, plus any receipts for items purchased, for 5 years. The cruise line does not keep these. If later reviewed and found that the activities were inadequate, it will be me that gets into trouble, not the cruise line. The cruise line did not "police" our activities. The same could be said for anyone flying to Cuba; the airline will not police what you do there.

Realistically, I don't think the affidavits and journals will ever be reviewed. They never have in the past, and with the decreased Federal funding, they likely won't in the future since many people would have to be hired to collect, review them, and go through some arbitration process with the individuals submitting them. The current penalty, as of Feb. 10, 2017, for violation of the "International Emergency Economic Powers Act" is the greater of 2X the underlying transaction, or $289,238. Not a trivial amount.

Art

How easily can Americans find a Cuban service and book through them? I had heard that people were booking Cuban stays through AirBnB, but didn't pay much attention, since I'm going (I hope!) on a cruise. I had no idea that they weren't paying the casas.

Very easily. There is a long and fairly complete list of them somewhere on one of the Cubatravel forums (look for posts by Laurie212 on TA), and mentions of quite a few on other Cuba travel forums (TT, Fodor, FlyerTalk).

You can also read reports of the non-payment problem.

If you want a list of Cuban run casa agencies to be posted here, that can happen, but since most posters here sleep on the ship, didn't think it was necessary/useful up till now.

Very easily. There is a long and fairly complete list of them somewhere on one of the Cubatravel forums (look for posts by Laurie212 on TA), and mentions of quite a few on other Cuba travel forums (TT, Fodor, FlyerTalk).

You can also read reports of the non-payment problem.

If you want a list of Cuban run casa agencies to be posted here, that can happen, but since most posters here sleep on the ship, didn't think it was necessary/useful up till now.

(bold is mine) You're right. That's why I didn't look into any kind of accommodation. I have to admit, I'd probably look for a US-based agency, go with a name I know.

I have to admit, I'd probably look for a US-based agency, go with a name I know.

So you'd pay twice the price for the exact same lodging, one that is treating owners unfairly (and that might effect your experience with them)?

Also, in the new scheme of things, in which "people-to-people" may no longer be a category for individuals, how do you justify "support for the Cuban people" (another usable category for individual travelers) when you're doing business with an American company, not a Cuban one (and even the percentage that is supposed to go to Cuban casa particular owners is not getting to them)?

So you'd pay twice the price for the exact same lodging, one that is treating owners unfairly (and that might effect your experience with them)?

 

Also, in the new scheme of things, in which "people-to-people" may no longer be a category for individuals, how do you justify "support for the Cuban people" (another usable category for individual travelers) when you're doing business with an American company, not a Cuban one (and even the percentage that is supposed to go to Cuban casa particular owners is not getting to them)?

Whoa! Enough already with the lectures! I have done no research at all on staying in Cuba because my goal has always been to cruise there. My point about AirBnB is that it's a familiar name. I've never used them, and I really don't think they publicize their bad treatment of the Cubans they work with, so how would I know? Until I read your post, I had no idea they were doing any of that. Sorry that I bothered to respond.

My point about AirBnB is that it's a familiar name. I've never used them, and I really don't think they publicize their bad treatment of the Cubans they work with, so how would I know? Until I read your post, I had no idea they were doing any of that.

You said: " I'd probably look for a US-based agency, go with a name I know." although you know NOTHING about their offerings or performance in Cuba, a newly opened country to just a few partnered US businesses. The info is on just about every Cuba travel forum on the internet that one could think of, and is, in fact, hard to miss.

It's simply due diligence, finding out about conditions in a country newly opened to US travelers, doing as much reading as possible before departure on all facets of the country and travel there, particularly in the case of this country with which the US does not have a "regular" relationship.

He's speaking NOW if anyone has Univision. Other channels do not seem to care.