Staff disappointed by wine by the glass?

We just finished a cruise on the Riviera. On the whole the cruise was a very good one. There were issues (as there always are), but we enjoyed ourselves and are happy to have taken the experience.

But one observation that I'm curious if others have noticed a little bit of a staff disappointment when you order wine by the glass on a package. We had the standard drink perk and then upgrade. On Day 1, just getting our bearings, we ate at the grand dining room which was nearly empty. The sommelier came over and immediately tried to sell us a bottle of wine. For the record, we would later purchase 2 at specialty restaurants. But on this occasion, we just wanted wine by the glass. I've used this terminology in my onboard and now my CC review, but basically it looked like we had just shot his dog. He was professional with service after that, but the disappointment was dripping.

I'm sure this likely has something to do with compensation. I know on a bottle of wine he'd get most of (all?) the 18% and I'm sure on the wine glasses (especially on package) there's probably a pool of some sort. On the whole sommeliers and others we interacted with later in the cruise were better about it. Some didn't even bother to swipe our cards (I assume because of lack of financial incentive).

It wasn't a huge thing, but it seems like this is something Oceania needs to solve somehow. We've had drink packages on other ships before and had great interactions with sommeliers and bartenders to the point where we tipped them on the side directly. There was really no way that was going to happen on this cruise with the way we were served. So Oceania, figure out how to compensate your staff better here so that they don't pass on resentment to the passengers.

We had the basic alcohol package on the Sirena and could not have been happier with the device. We did do a wine tasting and the head sommelier was gracious there and in the MDR.

Not surprised about your disappointment. We had the Premium Alcohol Package on two cruises and found the wine choices to be minimal. On the other hand, their top shelf drinks were quite good (as long as you order a double since their measured pours are meager).

Not surprised about your disappointment. We had the Premium Alcohol Package on two cruises and found the wine choices to be minimal. On the other hand, their top shelf drinks were quite good (as long as you order a double since their measured pours are meager).

TC2,

I suggest you read the posts more carefully before you reply.

In this case the TS was not disappointed or complained about the "wine choices" or the size of the pours. Rather they had a problem with the sommelier's attitude because TS did not purchase wine by the bottle but instead used their package.

Similarly in the other thread you ignored 2 posts about prevention of terrorist attacks in Mallorca & Canary Islands and instead you were wondering why they had not heard about the attacks in Barcelona.

+1 Paul.

Although I have to admit I've made the same kind of mistake in the past ...

Mura

Yeah, to be clear I actually thought the selection of wine by the glass was very reasonable. I mean it's not top $$$ stuff, but it was fine for drinking while you eat buffet or lunch.

tc2,

i suggest you read the posts more carefully before you reply.

In this case the ts was not disappointed or complained about the "wine choices" or the size of the pours. Rather they had a problem with the sommelier's attitude because ts did not purchase wine by the bottle but instead used their package.

Similarly in the other thread you ignored 2 posts about prevention of terrorist attacks in mallorca & canary islands and instead you were wondering why they had not heard about the attacks in barcelona.

+1!!

TC2,

I suggest you read the posts more carefully before you reply.

In this case the TS was not disappointed or complained about the "wine choices" or the size of the pours. Rather they had a problem with the sommelier's attitude because TS did not purchase wine by the bottle but instead used their package.

Similarly in the other thread you ignored 2 posts about prevention of terrorist attacks in Mallorca & Canary Islands and instead you were wondering why they had not heard about the attacks in Barcelona.

Chill out, Paul! People some times are not as attentive as you are!:D

We just finished a cruise on the Riviera. On the whole the cruise was a very good one. There were issues (as there always are), but we enjoyed ourselves and are happy to have taken the experience.

 

But one observation that I'm curious if others have noticed a little bit of a staff disappointment when you order wine by the glass on a package. We had the standard drink perk and then upgrade. On Day 1, just getting our bearings, we ate at the grand dining room which was nearly empty. The sommelier came over and immediately tried to sell us a bottle of wine. For the record, we would later purchase 2 at specialty restaurants. But on this occasion, we just wanted wine by the glass. I've used this terminology in my onboard and now my CC review, but basically it looked like we had just shot his dog. He was professional with service after that, but the disappointment was dripping.

 

I'm sure this likely has something to do with compensation. I know on a bottle of wine he'd get most of (all?) the 18% and I'm sure on the wine glasses (especially on package) there's probably a pool of some sort. On the whole sommeliers and others we interacted with later in the cruise were better about it. Some didn't even bother to swipe our cards (I assume because of lack of financial incentive).

 

It wasn't a huge thing, but it seems like this is something Oceania needs to solve somehow. We've had drink packages on other ships before and had great interactions with sommeliers and bartenders to the point where we tipped them on the side directly. There was really no way that was going to happen on this cruise with the way we were served. So Oceania, figure out how to compensate your staff better here so that they don't pass on resentment to the passengers.

Not anywhere near that situation on our recent Marina cruise. Staff were very willing to assist customers in all restaurants with making a wine by the glass choice to pair with their food selections. No pushing of the wine list by the bottle listing once anyone stated they would like to order wine by the glass under the beverage program. Pours were large, and in all but one instance in the GDR, glasses were refilled in a timely manner- happily and with a smile- even to the point of having to say "enough for tonight." The one instance in the GDR was the result of the mass of people showing up at 8PM after the captain's cocktail party- bar staff was short due to serving at the bar venues.

We just finished a cruise on the Riviera. On the whole the cruise was a very good one. There were issues (as there always are), but we enjoyed ourselves and are happy to have taken the experience.

 

But one observation that I'm curious if others have noticed a little bit of a staff disappointment when you order wine by the glass on a package. We had the standard drink perk and then upgrade. On Day 1, just getting our bearings, we ate at the grand dining room which was nearly empty. The sommelier came over and immediately tried to sell us a bottle of wine. For the record, we would later purchase 2 at specialty restaurants. But on this occasion, we just wanted wine by the glass. I've used this terminology in my onboard and now my CC review, but basically it looked like we had just shot his dog. He was professional with service after that, but the disappointment was dripping.

 

I'm sure this likely has something to do with compensation. I know on a bottle of wine he'd get most of (all?) the 18% and I'm sure on the wine glasses (especially on package) there's probably a pool of some sort. On the whole sommeliers and others we interacted with later in the cruise were better about it. Some didn't even bother to swipe our cards (I assume because of lack of financial incentive).

 

It wasn't a huge thing, but it seems like this is something Oceania needs to solve somehow. We've had drink packages on other ships before and had great interactions with sommeliers and bartenders to the point where we tipped them on the side directly. There was really no way that was going to happen on this cruise with the way we were served. So Oceania, figure out how to compensate your staff better here so that they don't pass on resentment to the passengers.

I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head; it is no secret that most employees on all cruise ships are underpaid and rely heavily on tips; the many sommeliers are probably no different. Reminds me of the time I bought a La-Z-Boy couch and refused the extra charge for special fabric treatment; the sales person was crushed.

I thankfully did not have the same experience on Riviera.

Chill out, Paul! People some times are not as attentive as you are!:D

And some posters choose to make their point (repeatedly) even if not in direct response.

I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head; it is no secret that most employees on all cruise ships are underpaid and rely heavily on tips; the many sommeliers are probably no different. Reminds me of the time I bought a La-Z-Boy couch and refused the extra charge for special fabric treatment; the sales person was crushed.

I thankfully did not have the same experience on Riviera.

Like the car salesman when you refused to purchase the undercouting.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Forums mobile app

I don't think this is right. The tips are in a pool, distributed to the staff. (We are billed $35/person/day or something like that for tips). The 18% service charge surely goes into the same "pot" ? I think the only way a Sommelier would get a tip directly is if the passenger gave it to him. And one would not want to tip a Sommelier who showed obvious disappointment at an order. Well - I wouldn't!

We get the Prestige Beverage package and never once have I seen a sommelier show disappointment because we ordered from the wine by the glass menu. (Which IMO - and I live in the best Canton for wines in the entire country - has a lot of good choices)

Unless he kept persisting on trying to upsel you what difference would it make

You declined the purchase of a bottle of wine & as you said

<<<He was professional with service after that >>>

It is their job to make suggestions

I don't think this is right. The tips are in a pool, distributed to the staff. (We are billed $35/person/day or something like that for tips). The 18% service charge surely goes into the same "pot" ? I think the only way a Sommelier would get a tip directly is if the passenger gave it to him.

Hi Hambagahel,

I would not make this assumption (18% goes into general pool to split between everyone). I do not know specifically about O but, on other cruise lines I have sailed, the 18% tips do not go into pool with general daily gratuity to split between everyone (like waiters, room Stuarts, room service, etc.).

I'm sure someone here will have more info to O specifically.

Cheers,

John

I believe John is probably correct. We have no clue as to how Oceania disperses gratuities, or if they even do. Look at all the cruisers with prepaid gratuities packages, either from the ship or a TA. With the large number of multiple repeat customers on board every cruise, we're probably talking half the ship or more. Do you think the staff's comp swings based on that number? LOL! This isn't a restaurant operation.

I typically assume that the staff is paid a contract rate for their work and the only tips they receive is what I individually give to them in cash.

I am guessing but the Bar staff/waiters get the 18% from beverages in separate pool than the daily gratuities pool for dining staff & Housekeeping

How they divide it up after that well that is between them & the employer

Maybe Sommeliers get extra incentives for selling more bottles but then I would think they would be more pushy than they are if that is the case

If you are not happy with a certain staff member take it up with the GM or Hotel Manager at the time

JMO

Well I suppose this makes sense. But coming from a country where service is included in ALL prices and there is hardly any tipping (aside for outstanding service) I don't really understand why cruise lines don't up their staff wages and tell guests not to tip. A pipe dream I suppose. When we go to the US we have to constantly remind ourselves that tips are not included and are a huge part of the bill. On Oceania this is another argument in favour of the beverage packages!

Hi Hambagahle,

Having the privilege to live in Switzerland for 5 years recently, I totally understand where you are coming from. Life was much easier knowing whatever price was on a menu or a price tag on a item at a store was the exact price I paid out the door. I wish the US had the same culture but, it doesn't and likely never will (nobody consulted with me when making up these rules :)

Saying this, If you have been to America I think you would agree the prices are much cheaper for most everything, including dinning. For some reason, in America the restaurant staff is paid below poverty rates by employers. The majority of income earned is through tips (complete opposite of Switzerland). So it kind of works out the same, you pay for it one way or another.

Cruise lines kind of take it to a whole different level whereas they hire employees from some 3rd world countries and pay them a ridiculous small rate. They get away with this because the ship is registered to a country which provides zero protection to worker rights. But, keep in mind, where the employees live (when not working on the cruise ship) a little money goes a long way. So, these "auto tips" are just used to supplement the very small amount of money these workers get paid.

I don't agree with this business model but I understand that the large % of American people who purchase cruises are looking at the price of the cruise and looking for any savings they can find. It's easier for a cruise line to set a lower price and then say "plus daily tips" on top of that price.

Tschüss

John

Well I suppose this makes sense. But coming from a country where service is included in ALL prices and there is hardly any tipping (aside for outstanding service) I don't really understand why cruise lines don't up their staff wages and tell guests not to tip. A pipe dream I suppose. When we go to the US we have to constantly remind ourselves that tips are not included and are a huge part of the bill.

The only thing I will disagree with on this subject is that I do prefer to tip separately in restaurants based on the service. When tips are included, it might make it more "convenient" but not less expensive and there is no incentive from staff to provide excellent service. I am not saying that they do not provide good service most of the time but in those cases when the service is lacking, I resent having the fixed amount of tips included and me not having a voice in deciding how much or little to tip based on the level of service (this applies more to some European countries than others)

That said, I will add that I have never NOT tipped a staff at a restaurant and even "low" tipped very rarely but somehow I feel better having that choice, even though I rarely use it. :)

PS Having visited Switzerland many times, I think that you will agree that the meals in US for you are a huge bargain - even with extra tips - compared to Switzerland :D

Since we're off topic with tipping, I hate the US system of tipping because there is no system. In some establishments, the tips go to the person, or team, that waited on you. In others, it all goes into a pool and split equally among all wait staff. Good waitresses or bad, they all share. However, now days tips are also split among both the wait staff and the cooks in some restaurants. What happens when you get mediocre to poor food from a good waitress? Also, some establishment owners keep part of the tips themselves.

Trouble is, unless you specifically ask, you don't know where the tip dollars are going and how they are dispersed. We don't have a clue how Oceania does it either.

I am guessing but the Bar staff/waiters get the 18% from beverages in separate pool than the daily gratuities pool for dining staff & Housekeeping

How they divide it up after that, well that is between them & the employer

 

Maybe Sommeliers get extra incentives for selling more bottles but then I would think they would be more pushy than they are if that is the case

If you are not happy with a certain staff member take it up with the GM or Hotel Manager at the time

 

JMO

For me the phrase I highlighted sums it all up. I don't worry about all the other stuff.

Since we're off topic with tipping, I hate the US system of tipping because there is no system. In some establishments, the tips go to the person, or team, that waited on you. In others, it all goes into a pool and split equally among all wait staff. Good waitresses or bad, they all share. However, now days tips are also split among both the wait staff and the cooks in some restaurants. What happens when you get mediocre to poor food from a good waitress? Also, some establishment owners keep part of the tips themselves.

 

Trouble is, unless you specifically ask, you don't know where the tip dollars are going and how they are dispersed. We don't have a clue how Oceania does it either.

I am not concerned about things I cannot control - there are simply too many of them for me to worry about.

If you are that concerned, perhaps you can tip your restaurant server in cash to make sure it remains with that staff member. :)

Since we're off topic with tipping, I hate the US system of tipping because there is no system. In some establishments, the tips go to the person, or team, that waited on you. In others, it all goes into a pool and split equally among all wait staff. Good waitresses or bad, they all share. However, now days tips are also split among both the wait staff and the cooks in some restaurants. What happens when you get mediocre to poor food from a good waitress? Also, some establishment owners keep part of the tips themselves.

 

Trouble is, unless you specifically ask, you don't know where the tip dollars are going and how they are dispersed. We don't have a clue how Oceania does it either.

To me the tips are simply a ruse of the cruise line to advertise a slightly lower fare and, sometimes to offer an extra passenger incentive. Fundamentally tips are part of the crews regular and expected compensation. As structured they are not a reward for exemplary service.

If you wish to reward individual service you have two choices. You may tip individuals or you may mention exceptional service, by name, in the mid cruise and final cruise reviews. We generally tip room stewards who are good directly (cash in an envelope) and mention wait and wine service staff in the reviews (also mention those good room stewards). Whether they pool those tips or not is not my concern. It's the thought that counts :D.

Oceania staff have repeatedly told me that the passenger reviews count a lot for promotions and, I suspect, for bonuses or other perks. On those occasions where I have mentioned a specific, identifiable incident in the mid cruise review I have had staff thank me for the comments. Those reviews are read and acted upon very quickly. Complaints and problems reported are also acted upon. I have been contacted within 24 hours by senior staff for additional information and/or apologies.

Robbie

Not surprised about your disappointment. We had the Premium Alcohol Package on two cruises and found the wine choices to be minimal. On the other hand, their top shelf drinks were quite good (as long as you order a double since their measured pours are meager).

Thanks for the tip!