Best European Airfare

What does leasing have to do with anything? Norwegian, like many airlines, has a blended approach between leasing and outright ownership.

Norwegian is not alone in doing this, and you're right that other airlines sometimes have resilience problems too. (Last week's BA problems were actually of a different order entirely.) But the context of the point you quoted was a question as to whether the example referred to was to cover for unexpected capacity shortages during the 787 battery problems; the answer was no, it was more recent than that.

Of its own aircraft, perhaps. But I was talking about something else: basically sub-contracting out a flight by short-term wet-leasing because it didn't have the aircraft to operate its planned flights.

 

Norwegian is not alone in doing this, and you're right that other airlines sometimes have resilience problems too. (Last week's BA problems were actually of a different order entirely.) But the context of the point you quoted was a question as to whether the example referred to was to cover for unexpected capacity shortages during the 787 battery problems; the answer was no, it was more recent than that.

I looked a little more into it and the lease of an A330 was related to a maintenance issue, although not battery-related. I think/hope that battery problems are a thing of the past for the 787. It does seem that Norwegian is being super aggressive in having little reserve capacity to meet their schedule. I guess that is another way that they keep their costs down relative to other carriers.

I am also aware that BA's problems were related to their computers rather than their aircraft. In fact, I helped some friends that were trapped in Heathrow find alternate tickets on Wizz Air last Saturday. The amazing thing is that problems with computers are the most serious type of problem you can have these day for just about any business.

It does seem that Norwegian is being super aggressive in having little reserve capacity to meet their schedule. I guess that is another way that they keep their costs down relative to other carriers.

Which is not a reason for shunning Norwegian entirely. But people should try to do their own risk-reward assessments instead of only looking at the headline price.

I think that must be right. But the risk posed by that approach is increased by the possibly greater reluctance of an airline like Norwegian to re-route you on other airlines if things go wrong. ...

 

Which is not a reason for shunning Norwegian entirely. But people should try to do their own risk-reward assessments instead of only looking at the headline price.

I couldn't agree with you more on this point. I have paid for non-refundable airline tickets and hotel rooms that I couldn't use. However, I considered these terms upfront and viewed the difference in price as my risk premium.

It's like the endless debate on this site of flying into some port the day of the cruise. Is it worth the cost of a hotel room and possibly another vacation day or two to help ensure you're going to make the ship versus the likelihood you'll make the boat?

For me one of the big challenges with Norwegian's transatlantic service right now is that they don't fly their routes everyday. Miss one flight connection and you might wait quite a long time.

 

It's like the endless debate on this site of flying into some port the day of the cruise. Is it worth the cost of a hotel room and possibly another vacation day or two to help ensure you're going to make the ship versus the likelihood you'll make the boat?

 

For me one of the big challenges with Norwegian's transatlantic service right now is that they don't fly their routes everyday. Miss one flight connection and you might wait quite a long time.

Just my words.

When possible I always book my air tickets with SAS (Star Alliance partner) and found their prices OK and comparable with Norwegian taking all services into account like luggage, seating and change of reservation for a fee. For the last 35 years I haven't had any bad experiences - being rerouted in case of bad weather, air strikes or technical problems. However always flying at least the day before. Have had delays of flight or luggage by more than 24 hours due to bad weather conditions or air controller strikes.

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I've not read through all of the posts, so this might have been mentioned previously, but EVERY time we've taken a European cruise or T/A, cruise line's air has ALWAYS been considerably less than anything we could find on our own. However, we've only done European cruises of T/A's with Princess, HAL, or Celebrity. And if we went/returned day of embarkation/disembarkation, transfers to/from the airport were included adn depending which airport and destination port you're sailing to/from, that could be a significant cost in itself.

As an example of savings on cruise line OW flights to Europe, RCCL Air2Sea has OW businss class nonstop fares from Amsterdam to LAX for next April for $1,008. And I booked business OW LAX to Copenhagen on Air France this August for a little over $1,000. Try getting THOSE fares directly through the airlines. And I have flown with their business class fares several times in the past with no problems. Economy class fares (ow) are often so low, even on the major airlines, they are sometimes ridiculous.

Each person can make their own decisions as to whether the savings is worth it.

I've not read through all of the posts, so this might have been mentioned previously, but EVERY time we've taken a European cruise or T/A, cruise line's air has ALWAYS been considerably less than anything we could find on our own

As an example of savings on cruise line OW flights to Europe, RCCL Air2Sea has OW businss class nonstop fares from Amsterdam to LAX for next April for $1,008. And I booked business OW LAX to Copenhagen on Air France this August for a little over $1,000. Try getting THOSE fares directly through the airlines. And I have flown with their business class fares several times in the past with no problems. Economy class fares (ow) are often so low, even on the major airlines, they are sometimes ridiculous.

Well, did you know what you were buying from the airline though?

Just because you've had "no problems" doesn't mean that when issues arise (IRROPS, French ATC strikes etc etc.) you'll also have no problems.

"Cruise Air".products are generally very opaque in terms of what you're getting. It's like buying a new washing machine from a stall on the side of the road....yes, you're still getting a washing machine and it may be fine and never go wrong, but if it does go wrong are you covered by warranty the same way you would if you'd bought it at Lowe's?

There was a good thread a while back about someone who bought a CruiseAir ticket and when weather hit the fan (or some kind of other IRROPS) they reported that there was very little that could be done in terms of endorsement or even re-routing! Whereas all the other passengers on their flight were off and away quickly on creative routings to get to their destinations. Boat missed, holiday over etc.

Well, did you know what you were buying from the airline though?

 

Just because you've had "no problems" doesn't mean that when issues arise (IRROPS, French ATC strikes etc etc.) you'll also have no problems.

 

"Cruise Air".products are generally very opaque in terms of what you're getting. It's like buying a new washing machine from a stall on the side of the road....yes, you're still getting a washing machine and it may be fine and never go wrong, but if it does go wrong are you covered by warranty the same way you would if you'd bought it at Lowe's?

 

There was a good thread a while back about someone who bought a CruiseAir ticket and when weather hit the fan (or some kind of other IRROPS) they reported that there was very little that could be done in terms of endorsement or even re-routing! Whereas all the other passengers on their flight were off and away quickly on creative routings to get to their destinations. Boat missed, holiday over etc.

I agree with your assessment; however, when the price difference between Air2Sea and booking directly is thousands of dollars, then I'm willing to take the risk. But I have the luxury of being able to wait a few days to get to my destination (whether it's the beginning or end of my vacation) and I have plenty of airline miles that, although I can't seem to find SAAver rates for them, could be used at AAnytime rates to secure passage if need be. Plus I am reasonably good at navigating airline reservation systems. So for a few grand, I'm willing to take the modest risk that my flight may be delayed and I'll have to find another way to my destination. But not everybody is in that position.

I agree with your assessment; however, when the price difference between Air2Sea and booking directly is thousands of dollars, then I'm willing to take the risk. But I have the luxury of being able to wait a few days to get to my destination (whether it's the beginning or end of my vacation) and I have plenty of airline miles that, although I can't seem to find SAAver rates for them, could be used at AAnytime rates to secure passage if need be. Plus I am reasonably good at navigating airline reservation systems. So for a few grand, I'm willing to take the modest risk that my flight may be delayed and I'll have to find another way to my destination. But not everybody is in that position.

Absolutely.

That's the point being made. There is risk, and folks should be aware that they are dealing with different products with different characteristics BEYOND just the price point. It's not "the only difference is price".

If, and it's a big if, one has evaluated what the purchasing options are AND has made their own risk tolerance assessment, then I say go ahead and make your purchase whatever it may be. I (and others) just want folks to be aware that it is not apples and apples, that there is more than just lowest price, and that one needs to make informed decisions taking many factors into consideration.

That's what capitalism is all about -- various products in the marketplace, with consumers making informed, intelligent purchasing decisions. With, of course, a wary eye knowing "Caveat Emptor".

I agree with your assessment; however, when the price difference between Air2Sea and booking directly is thousands of dollars, then I'm willing to take the risk. But I have the luxury of being able to wait a few days to get to my destination (whether it's the beginning or end of my vacation) and I have plenty of airline miles that, although I can't seem to find SAAver rates for them, could be used at AAnytime rates to secure passage if need be. Plus I am reasonably good at navigating airline reservation systems. So for a few grand, I'm willing to take the modest risk that my flight may be delayed and I'll have to find another way to my destination. But not everybody is in that position.

I also like the idea that I always purchase travel insurance as well, which is another issue and topic for another board, to back me up if such instances occur.

bon voyage