Trump's changes to Cuba travel from US

Vida:

 

Why do you bother answering a troll?

Extreme boredom? (Time on my hands not planning my next trip to Cuba. That's in Sec 2 d) in the treatise linked above, "amplifying free association" with my Cuban friends through 'non-visiting'.)

Faint amusement to see how far he'll go?

Waiting to see if anyone else would call him, and/or the other one, out?

(Thanks for the concern though. Definitely appreciate it. You're a good human being.)

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I'm guess it will be another 3 years before we see plans for a Trump Hotel & Tower in Havana or Veradero...........

I am researching everything I can find regarding the new Cuba policies. I think with time we will have the answers, but for now what is the difference between the cruise lines hiring tour companies that may or may not be run by the government and an individual hiring a tour company run by an individual? I am hoping we will still be able to do the classic car tour on our own. I have no problem keeping a log of my activities while there as is required by the US government. Also, the Tropicana Cabaret show and other cabarets, I'm sure, are government run, which seems to mean we will not be able to attend under the new policies.

The difference is in the licensing process. Prior to the Obama changes, a travel company (or other organization) "subject to US jurisdiction " was required to submit a plan to the Treasury Dept. for review and approval PRIOR to travel. The plan had to be high on education and low on financial contribution to the Castro government. Submissions were lengthily - several hundred pages - and included educational, financial and legal analysis. Once approved, the company was supervised by Treasury agents for compliance with the plan and heavily fined if found in non-compliance. This process was simply too complicate for an individual to accomplish on their own.

As it stands now, individuals can simply certify their own compliance with the various embargo and sanction laws. Most individual certification made now are not strictly compliant with the laws - regardless of logs and receipts - but Treasury is very unlikely to individually go after the thousands of individuals visiting Cuba under the Obama revised rules. Forcing the cruise line to do the certification by a company meeting the"subject to US jurisdiction" requirement would expose them to risks of millions of dollars in fines.

It is unclear if Trump will return to the strict pre-Obama rules but if so, it may well end cruising to Cuba from US ports. Options to fly to a non-US Port for cruise embarkation - as under the previous rules or even illegally - would likely return. Trump may implement some less rigorous procedures but it is fair to assume that both the cost and hassle of Cuba cruising will increase.

As you note, only time will tell.

I don't remember who started the p*ssing match or what were the reasons for it. But the blog on Cuba is for information ONLY and only one person (VidaNaPraia) had been to Cuba apparently many times. His experiences and those that have been there - whether one-times or otherwise, on NCL, Pearl, Fathom etc should be looked at to get information.

I have an over night in Havana booked for Sep and if that means getting of the ship on the cheapest tour offered, I will present myself for boarding before the sail away time the next day, I have a US passport and a set sail pass. I will be allowed to board and customs can deal with me when I return, but i will not be denied entry back into the USA. Either place I have problems will have a law suit they would rather not deal with. Bottom line.

I have an over night in Havana booked for Sep and if that means getting of the ship on the cheapest tour offered, I will present myself for boarding before the sail away time the next day, I have a US passport and a set sail pass. I will be allowed to board and customs can deal with me when I return, but i will not be denied entry back into the USA. Either place I have problems will have a law suit they would rather not deal with. Bottom line.

I do not understand? Why would you think you will have problems? The process sounds simple. What am I missing?

I have an over night in Havana booked for Sep and if that means getting of the ship on the cheapest tour offered, I will present myself for boarding before the sail away time the next day, I have a US passport and a set sail pass. I will be allowed to board and customs can deal with me when I return, but i will not be denied entry back into the USA. Either place I have problems will have a law suit they would rather not deal with. Bottom line.

So, what I think you're doing is using the tour ticket as your "escape plan" if they don't allow individuals to go off on their own. Is that it? Do you intend to tell anyone on the ship what you're doing? I've never heard of a curfew on overnight port stops, but I wonder if the ship's security people will have concerns about a passenger who is off the ship all night. I would be a shame to waste their time on a missing person search.

I have an over night in Havana booked for Sep and if that means getting of the ship on the cheapest tour offered, I will present myself for boarding before the sail away time the next day, I have a US passport and a set sail pass. I will be allowed to board and customs can deal with me when I return, but i will not be denied entry back into the USA. Either place I have problems will have a law suit they would rather not deal with. Bottom line.

What makes you think you will not be allowed back into the USA?

Unless you commit a crime while in Cuba the Cuban officials do not care what you do there

The CBP may detain you if you are combative with them but other that that what is the problem ?

Very odd post

It's unclear what the recourse would be anyway. It will all be done through an audit system, 6-12 months after your return. Then what, if they decide I didn't do the right activities? I am not holding my breath, I'm going to enjoy my vacation and hope for the best.

It's unclear what the recourse would be anyway. It will all be done through an audit system, 6-12 months after your return. Then what, if they decide I didn't do the right activities? I am not holding my breath, I'm going to enjoy my vacation and hope for the best.

(bold is mine) How will that work? Will you have to send documents from your travel to the Treasury Dept for approval?

(bold is mine) How will that work? Will you have to send documents from your travel to the Treasury Dept for approval?

I think so, but it's definitely murky at best! They almost make it sound like they will come after travelers 6-12 months after their return, which I can't imagine is sustainable (or worthwhile).

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba_faqs_20170616.pdf

It will all be done through an audit system, 6-12 months after your return.

Can you please cite your source for that statement.

The only mention of "time limits" I have read is about keeping documentation for 5 years after your trip, which is a current requirement that apparently will not change.

It's unclear what the recourse would be anyway. It will all be done through an audit system, 6-12 months after your return. Then what, if they decide I didn't do the right activities? I am not holding my breath, I'm going to enjoy my vacation and hope for the best.

Any enforcement action is more likely to take years. A full listing of OFAC actions can be found at: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx.

I found one in action in 2017 that settled issues associated with two trips (by and individual) to Cuba in 2010 and 2011 for $10,000. There are only 6 settlements in 2017 so far for Cuba and all other sanctioned countries, organizations and people. There really is no way Treasury can come after thousands of cruise passengers individually.

The cruise lines are going to make very sure everything is legal as they have the deepest pockets (most risk of enforcement) and the most invested in here. I am very confident the only way you would put yourself at risk is if you choose to do something on your own to break the rules provided by your cruise line/ship. Enjoy your trip.

Any enforcement action is more likely to take years. A full listing of OFAC actions can be found at: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx.

 

I found one in action in 2017 that settled issues associated with two trips (by and individual) to Cuba in 2010 and 2011 for $10,000. There are only 6 settlements in 2017 so far for Cuba and all other sanctioned countries, organizations and people. There really is no way Treasury can come after thousands of cruise passengers individually.

 

The cruise lines are going to make very sure everything is legal as they have the deepest pockets (most risk of enforcement) and the most invested in here. I am very confident the only way you would put yourself at risk is if you choose to do something on your own to break the rules provided by your cruise line/ship. Enjoy your trip.

You're right that Treasury can't check on everyone. In recent years there have been reports that they have fewer people to audit income taxes. So how much staff can they divert to auditing Cuba travel? Someone posted a list of ships going to Cuba. Number of passengers for each ship totals over 16,000 people sailing from the US. I know there were some inaccuracies in the numbers, but even so, if each ship goes 5 times, that's about 80,000 passengers to potentially audit.

I agree that the cruise lines have the most to lose. They may be forced into controlling when/how passengers can leave the ship. How THAT would be enforced/audited I'm not sure. Maybe there will be undercover T agents acting as deck hands or stewards to spy on us all! :eek:

A news report a while back suggested that immigration officials would ask about your activities in Cuba upon arrival back in the States and hustle you off to another room for further questioning if it sounded like you had violated the guidelines. Not sure how accurate that was but it sounded ominous. (I thought I posted this yesterday but can't find any evidence of it. Apologies if this is a duplicate.)

A news report a while back suggested that immigration officials would ask about your activities in Cuba upon arrival back in the States and hustle you off to another room for further questioning if it sounded like you had violated the guidelines. Not sure how accurate that was but it sounded ominous. (I thought I posted this yesterday but can't find any evidence of it. Apologies if this is a duplicate.)

I can see that as a way to sort people to see who might be worth auditing. Maybe they'll add an extra Treasury inspection in the Customs/Immigration process. I suspect people at Treasury have giant-size bottles of aspirin on their desks as they try to figure this out.

A news report a while back suggested that immigration officials would ask about your activities in Cuba upon arrival back in the States and hustle you off to another room for further questioning if it sounded like you had violated the guidelines. Not sure how accurate that was but it sounded ominous. (I thought I posted this yesterday but can't find any evidence of it. Apologies if this is a duplicate.)

It is not CBP's mandate to do this. It is OFAC's.

There's a lot of misinformation being put out there as people speculate.

In Miami, I was asked where I had been and what I was bringing home, and wished a Welcome Home. I was subsequently asked on return in Charlotte where I had been, and in addition, what I had done there. I gave the OFAC reason I'd chosen. As long as I didn't say "beach vacation", it felt like the CPB agent really wasn't even listening to the answer. Not so ominous.

A news report a while back suggested that immigration officials would ask about your activities in Cuba upon arrival back in the States and hustle you off to another room for further questioning if it sounded like you had violated the guidelines. Not sure how accurate that was but it sounded ominous. (I thought I posted this yesterday but can't find any evidence of it. Apologies if this is a duplicate.)

I have entered the US over a hundred times by land, sea and air. I have been asked many "odd" questions by CBP (and their predecessors) for no reason other than the agent is seeing if you can respond appropriately to an unexpected question. It is just an interview technique. I would not draw any conclusions from a single report like this even if it is accurate.

I agree that the cruise lines have the most to lose. They may be forced into controlling when/how passengers can leave the ship. How THAT would be enforced/audited I'm not sure. Maybe there will be undercover T agents acting as deck hands or stewards to spy on us all! :eek:

Maybe Trump will recruit Russian Operatives to gain employment on cruise ships and collect intelligence on US Passengers visiting Cuba.

Before anyone panics, I am kidding. r/Don

I spoke to Royal Caribbean today, and they stated you have to have a tour prebooked before you arrive in Cuba. No tour - No getting off the boat. I do not want to see Cuba on a tour bus with all the people on the ship. Does anyone know legal tour companies the Americans can still use to meet all the regulations.

I spoke to Royal Caribbean today, and they stated you have to have a tour prebooked before you arrive in Cuba. No tour - No getting off the boat. I do not want to see Cuba on a tour bus with all the people on the ship. Does anyone know legal tour companies the Americans can still use to meet all the regulations.

Just to clarify, they're saying you can go independently if you've got your tour pre-booked? Or do they mean their tours only? Also, when are you sailing?

Does anyone know legal tour companies the Americans can still use to meet all the regulations.

To the best of my understanding, you will be allowed to deal with private individuals using private transportation, not any tour company under Cuban government control or using government controlled vehicles.

(Since no one yet knows "all the regulations", it's impossible to say how to meet them.)

Therefore, the list of private tour guides on the Private Tours thread (posts #6, 19, and 21) would be a starting point.

It must depend on the person one speaks to at RCCL because I spoke with a young man from C&A on a different matter and then asked about my scheduled Cuba trip. He read from the information provided by the corporate officials and it did not say we could not do independent touring. We have a tour booked thru the ship for the day of arrival and our plans were to do the remaining time in Havana on our own. His information said that was ok and he even told me what to check on the paperwork.

A few days earlier I spoke with a representative from NCL and he read the memo he received from their corporate headquarters to me and basically told me the same as the RCCL rep.

I think we will need to wait and see and not listen to or circulate rumors.

It must depend on the person one speaks to at RCCL because I spoke with a young man from C&A on a different matter and then asked about my scheduled Cuba trip. He read from the information provided by the corporate officials and it did not say we could not do independent touring. We have a tour booked thru the ship for the day of arrival and our plans were to do the remaining time in Havana on our own. His information said that was ok and he even told me what to check on the paperwork.

 

A few days earlier I spoke with a representative from NCL and he read the memo he received from their corporate headquarters to me and basically told me the same as the RCCL rep.

 

I think we will need to wait and see and not listen to or circulate rumors.

It might be helpful to post dates, both of booking and of departure.

Seems like conditions may be slightly different for 1) those who booked before the June 16 announcement, 2) those who book and depart before the new regulations are issued (3 months?) and 3) afterwards.