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camper49
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Yep, but you'll get the same old folks who will argue that and point you to the doublespeak on the NCL website.

 

 

Yup....all NCL is doing is making people think it is a mandatory charge and not a voluntary function.

 

We started with envelopes and recommended amounts....that moved to 'we will make it easier and just charge those amounts to your account'....now it is a 'service charge'.

 

Much of the change started when freestyle type dining was invented. The day of handing the same waitstaff an envelope at the end of the cruise was largely a bygone. The only way to handle a group of customers being randomly served by a large group of servers is a pooled tipping policy unless you want the customers leaving the tip on the table at the end of the meal which a cruise ship isn't prepared for.

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Yup....all NCL is doing is making people think it is a mandatory charge and not a voluntary function.

 

We started with envelopes and recommended amounts....that moved to 'we will make it easier and just charge those amounts to your account'....now it is a 'service charge'.

 

Much of the change started when freestyle type dining was invented. The day of handing the same waitstaff an envelope at the end of the cruise was largely a bygone. The only way to handle a group of customers being randomly served by a large group of servers is a pooled tipping policy unless you want the customers leaving the tip on the table at the end of the meal which a cruise ship isn't prepared for.

wait, I thought the service charge was mandatory. You mean I can pay less than what is listed? Cuz I had some BUTT HOLE stewards who made my life miserable and gave me SO much attitude.

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i just returned from the gem saturday.. i paid 294 dollars for tips to ncl... does that mean that next time i can cancel the tips and give the waiter(i always ask for the same waiter for dinner the whole week) eat at buffet the rest of the time. $150 and the cabin steward $150 tip?

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i just returned from the gem saturday.. i paid 294 dollars for tips to ncl... does that mean that next time i can cancel the tips and give the waiter(i always ask for the same waiter for dinner the whole week) eat at buffet the rest of the time. $150 and the cabin steward $150 tip?

 

There are many more workers other than those two who have a hand in the overall experience you are provided who are compensated solely by gratuities.

Edited by ray98
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lol......service charge = tip = gratuities. Same thing, different wording.

 

Not even close.

Tip/Gratuity = Money that is given to, and thus the property of, a service employee. The employer has no say or control over the amount received.

Service Charge = Money that is given to the service providing company. Once received, the company has complete discretion as to how that money is distributed to/shared by their employees.

That is a HUGE difference. They are certainly NOT the same thing.

It really helps to educate yourself and not just buy into the easy assumptions made my many people on a message board.

Certain factors are used to determine whether payments constitute tips or service charges. The absence of any of the following factors creates a doubt as to whether a payment is a tip and indicates that the payment may be a service charge:

  • The payment must be made free from compulsion;
  • The customer must have the unrestricted right to determine the amount;
  • The payment should not be the subject of negotiations or dictated by employer policy; and
  • Generally, the customer has the right to determine who receives the payment.

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Read the final paragraph.

 

https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

Do you know if there are any repercussions on not tipping? Is there like a secret black list that all the stewards on your future cruises would know about?

 

 

I am paranoid about my stewards messing with my stuff...like giving me dirty towels that look clean or using my tooth brush to wash toilet...hence I NEVER complain unless the toilet is blowing up or something that I just cannot ignore.

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Now it seems the the Gratuities are called a Daily Service Charge and that seem to change the whole concept . It doesn't seem to be a gratuity any more , it seems to be something else and now there seems to be a need to pay tips on top. Plus of course theres the 17 or 18 % still being added to each drink, which I am still happy to pay.

 

This is the Internet, and a place where people are somewhat anonymous, so all the Calvinists can tell us they were right all along; people really are depraved. They will argue about everything.

 

The daily service charge or whatever Marketing is calling it this week takes the place of the tips envelopes. Only grammar police and anonymous amateur Internet debaters start fights about whether the daily service charge is a tip or not. It replaces the tip envelopes, as you and I both have experienced. Our experience trumps the grammar police and anonymous amateur Internet debaters.

 

There are some positions that are not in the **insert favorite word here** (tip, service charge, fluffy pig) pool. From now on, I think I'll call it the "fluffy pig pool" to avoid the sillyness :) The fact that the people who ARE in the pool are those self-same people we used to hand the envelopes to is proof that the "fluffy pig pool" takes the place of the old tips in envelopes. And the fact that the cruise lines remind us there are some that we didn't used to hand the envelopes to ... children's counselors, spa treatment people, butlers, concierge, etc. ... are NOT in the "fluffy pig pool" further strengthens our position that, no matter what you call it, the daily "fluffy pig pool" takes the place of the tips in the envelope.

 

NCL says additional tips are not required. Anonymous people on the Internet say they tip much more ... MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ... on every cruise. We can believe them or not. But the cruise line says the "fluffy pig pool" takes care of the old system of putting tips in envelopes, and we are not obligated for more.

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Do you know if there are any repercussions on not tipping? Is there like a secret black list that all the stewards on your future cruises would know about?

 

I am paranoid about my stewards messing with my stuff...like giving me dirty towels that look clean or using my tooth brush to wash toilet...hence I NEVER complain unless the toilet is blowing up or something that I just cannot ignore.

 

As far as I know, there has never been a documented case of retaliation for not paying the daily service charge on NCL. Some have said they have seen a list of the people who refuse to pay, but that doesn't make sense. You ask for them to be removed at the end of the cruise, not at the beginning. So the workers really never know.

 

NCL has had a couple of different policies, and last I heard was for people from the UK they could remove the daily service charge at the customer service desk on the last night of the cruise, and they wouldn't show on the final bill. But Americans and Canadians had to get a form from the customer service desk and fax it in after the cruise to get a refund check in 4, 6 8 or 12 weeks. I don't know how NCL is currently handling it,but I'm sure someone will chime in.

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This thread is proof of the power marketing has over people. Endless debates over terms when it is obvious to anyone with common sense it is the exact same thing proportioned in the exact same ways at the rest of the cruise industry.

 

You go on this line and your $14 a day is a 'Service Gratuity(tips)', the next is an 'Automatic Daily Gratuity', and the next is a 'Service Charge'. All are used to compensate employees who provide service which is the historical way of payment. Then sit back and watch some know it all come and argue how they aren't the same thing.

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If you pick the beverage and dining packages, you will be charged on your invoice (to be paid on your final payment) 18% of the total cost of those packages. For example: The beverage package for a 7 day cruise would cost $553 per person, so you would pay the 18% gratuity on that which would be $94.54 per person if you picked that as your perk.

 

If you have any other questions, please be a little more specific.

That is one big reason that we never pick the beverage packages, as well as the poor choices of wines.

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This is the Internet, and a place where people are somewhat anonymous, so all the Calvinists can tell us they were right all along; people really are depraved. They will argue about everything.

 

The daily service charge or whatever Marketing is calling it this week takes the place of the tips envelopes. Only grammar police and anonymous amateur Internet debaters start fights about whether the daily service charge is a tip or not. It replaces the tip envelopes, as you and I both have experienced. Our experience trumps the grammar police and anonymous amateur Internet debaters.

 

There are some positions that are not in the **insert favorite word here** (tip, service charge, fluffy pig) pool. From now on, I think I'll call it the "fluffy pig pool" to avoid the sillyness :) The fact that the people who ARE in the pool are those self-same people we used to hand the envelopes to is proof that the "fluffy pig pool" takes the place of the old tips in envelopes. And the fact that the cruise lines remind us there are some that we didn't used to hand the envelopes to ... children's counselors, spa treatment people, butlers, concierge, etc. ... are NOT in the "fluffy pig pool" further strengthens our position that, no matter what you call it, the daily "fluffy pig pool" takes the place of the tips in the envelope.

 

NCL says additional tips are not required. Anonymous people on the Internet say they tip much more ... MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ... on every cruise. We can believe them or not. But the cruise line says the "fluffy pig pool" takes care of the old system of putting tips in envelopes, and we are not obligated for more.

 

 

Good post. Alas, neither side is going to have their opinions changed on what it truly is and that's fine. As long as the employees get compensated and are happy enough to sign on to another contract that's all that matters. If they weren't making a decent living they wouldn't be doing that.

Edited by ColinIllinois
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Interesting thoughts all through this thread.

 

Amazing how so many say it is not a tip and refer to the postings by NCL to make it "fact".

 

Running a ship, like any business involves many expenses such as labor, just like fuel, upkeep of ship,cost of food, supplies, repair, etc. They do not charge us a "fee" for any of those things. But, for some reason, they is this DSC. Somehow, someway, partial compensation for some employees is a line item on our bill. But not all employees. Why not have a charge for laundry, and supplies and so many other things?

 

You figure it out.

 

AUTO TIP

DSC

BONUS POOL

SALARY POOL

 

(ps - I have no problem paying it and often tip some for various services besides that)

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That is one big reason that we never pick the beverage packages, as well as the poor choices of wines.
I think one has to crunch the numbers and look at how many drinks they would have in a week. If someone would have 2 $10 drinks a day it would more than pay to choose the UBP as a perk, since that would cost you $165 (includes 18% gratuity) without the perk versus the UBP perk at $94 for the week.
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This thread is proof of the power marketing has over people. Endless debates over terms when it is obvious to anyone with common sense it is the exact same thing proportioned in the exact same ways at the rest of the cruise industry.

 

You go on this line and your $14 a day is a 'Service Gratuity(tips)', the next is an 'Automatic Daily Gratuity', and the next is a 'Service Charge'. All are used to compensate employees who provide service which is the historical way of payment. Then sit back and watch some know it all come and argue how they aren't the same thing.

Touche. I personally would like to tip with cash and not pay those DSC. But I am concerned that cancelling the DSC so often would get me blacklisted on some invisible list that may or may not exist. I like handing over the money in person as this is more the cultural norm in the states.

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This subject has been beaten to death here. There are those who find the DSC reasonable and those who get their panties in a knot over it.

 

I don't particularly care what NCL calls it. I remember the old envelope days when a significant number of people would "forget" to leave an envelope for the steward and conveniently not eat in the dining room the last night, And yes, I have heard passengers brag about it after the cruise. At least, this system guarantees each party gets something. I don't care how it is split up.

 

I also leave something extra for a good room steward and reward wait staff for excellent service.

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This subject has been beaten to death here. There are those who find the DSC reasonable and those who get their panties in a knot over it.

 

I don't particularly care what NCL calls it. I remember the old envelope days when a significant number of people would "forget" to leave an envelope for the steward and conveniently not eat in the dining room the last night, And yes, I have heard passengers brag about it after the cruise. At least, this system guarantees each party gets something. I don't care how it is split up.

 

I also leave something extra for a good room steward and reward wait staff for excellent service.

I totally agree. I really don't care what it is called, whether it be DSC, automatic gratuities, etc., it replaced the envelope system that obviously didn't work, otherwise it would still be in place. I also believe that some that want the envelope system to come back or want to remove the DSC and say they want to tip in cash, would not tip as much as the DSC or not tip at all. If someone doesn't want to pay the DSC or tip, that is that persons business and I really don't understand the need to broadcast it to everyone.
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Touche. I personally would like to tip with cash and not pay those DSC. But I am concerned that cancelling the DSC so often would get me blacklisted on some invisible list that may or may not exist. I like handing over the money in person as this is more the cultural norm in the states.

 

 

The problem with that is the cruise industry has changed. For example, the days of having the same dining room waitstaff for an entire cruise that you tipped at the end is over for many. Now you are served by a variety of teams. Unless you have the customer tip in cash at the end of every meal like you would at a land based restaurant the only way to compensate everyone is with pooled funds.

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The problem with that is the cruise industry has changed. For example, the days of having the same dining room waitstaff for an entire cruise that you tipped at the end is over for many. Now you are served by a variety of teams. Unless you have the customer tip in cash at the end of every meal like you would at a land based restaurant the only way to compensate everyone is with pooled funds.

That is why I like to tip as I go. We never did the envelope thing but we tipped as we went. That is just how I do things at hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. Plus I usually get better service as people will not take 1 hour to bring up that pitcher of water when you tip them on the spot like what happens these days. And it just feels awkward to get room service and not tip b/c DSC covers it.

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As opposed to the know it all who ignores facts and thinks his opinions trump those said facts? :rolleyes:

 

 

LOL....'facts'. No.....marketing.

 

 

The cruise line business is booming since its transition into the mass market. Bottom line, they are now catering to demographics who aren't commonly found in situations where they are surrounded by a multitude of servers who rely on tips. There are segments of the population where that is the norm which just happens to be what was once the main customer base on cruise vacations. Things changed. They all want to avoid the new customer getting 'sticker shock' when they find their family of 4 is going to cough up $50+ per day in 'tips'.

 

They worked to find a way to make this more inclusive as simply part of the fare since they were certainly not going to back away from that method of compensating the employees. That is when the marketers came into play toying with the names of the program and pushing for automatically billed gratuities. NCL just decided 'service charge' was more palatable for their customer base to ensure their employees are compensated.

 

All the programs put the compensation of the employee on the customer....they all are based on near identical industry standards when it comes to the amount of compensation.....they just have a different name.

Edited by ray98
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2) Please point out where this is stated. Many of us have never seen this anywhere.

I know the first cruise I took after the change from envelopes to automatic gratuities (it was either Crystal or Celebrity, don't remember which line it was), we were advised that this took the place of the tips we were giving via the envelopes. And if anyone didn't read it, I'm sure they could have easily figured it out, because the amount was identical to the suggested tip amount. I'm sure they haven't written this anywhere for years, because those that did the envelope procedure were there for the change over and newer cruisers didn't participate in the envelope process, so there would really be no need IMHO to keep going over it.
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I think one has to crunch the numbers and look at how many drinks they would have in a week. If someone would have 2 $10 drinks a day it would more than pay to choose the UBP as a perk, since that would cost you $165 (includes 18% gratuity) without the perk versus the UBP perk at $94 for the week.

 

It seems to me that for a seven day cruise the gratuities on the UBP amounted to $199 (I computed a few weeks ago based on the so called value). With DW and I paying that we would be paying more than what we spend on a week cruise. I have kept track of our alcohol spending on all our cruises and we usually spend on NCL about $400 for a two week cruise. I usually buy a wine package and that is what we drink most of the time. Also, we are Platinum and get the free bottle of wine for two meals.

 

Coupled with the fact that the red wine choices on the UBP is not the good, it just doesn't work for us. Further, we can select a different promo, like credit on excursions.

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