Pvsa

Is this a violation of PVSA/Jones Act? Caribbean cruise roundtrip FLL, Panama Canal cruise from FLL to San Diego, Hawaiian cruise roundtrip San Diego? The Panama Canal cruise has stops in Colombia, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Mexico.

Is this a violation of PVSA/Jones Act? Caribbean cruise roundtrip FLL, Panama Canal cruise from FLL to San Diego, Hawaiian cruise roundtrip San Diego? The Panama Canal cruise has stops in Colombia, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and Mexico.

Suggest you contact a good maritime lawyer.

Smooth sailing :ship: :ship: :ship:

Suggest you contact a good maritime lawyer.

Smooth sailing :ship: :ship: :ship:

Anything less would be unacceptable ... :-)

No need to ask a maritime lawyer for something most cruise lines have already been doing a dozen or so times a year for as many years as one can remember. I am sure their lawyers have told them it is totally acceptable.

The roundtrips are fine. By the way, all of these are considered individual cruises, so if you are doing these as a B2B2B, there is not a complicating factor.

The trip from FLL to San Diego needs to stop at a "distant foreign port". Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and Cartegena qualify on the Caribbean side. I believe Costa Rica does on the Pacific side.

Any cruise that starts and ends in a US port (same or different) must stop in a foreign port somewhere in its itinerary. Perfect example is the Hawaii cruises that start and end from San Diego, Long Beach, Seattle, or San Francisco. Most, if not all, stop in Ensenada, Mexico, either on the way to Hawaii or on the way back. That short stop meets the requirements of the law. Same for cruises from Seattle to Alaska. They all stop in Vancouver. Some Hawaiian cruises stop at Fanning Island. The cruise lines know the laws and work them.

No problems on either cruise.

We have done many 21 day cruises from Ft Lauderdale to San Diego. Lots of foreign ports.

The Hawaiian cruise does have a quick stop usually at Ensenada -- which qualifies as a foreign port. We have done this itinerary.

You're fine. Each cruise individually meets the requirements of the PVSA. If you start in Ft. Lauderdale, end in San Diego, and stop at any of the ABC/South America islands along the way, then the cruise in its entirety also meets the requirements of the PVSA.

The roundtrips are fine. By the way, all of these are considered individual cruises, so if you are doing these as a B2B2B, there is not a complicating factor.

 

The trip from FLL to San Diego needs to stop at a "distant foreign port". Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and Cartegena qualify on the Caribbean side. I believe Costa Rica does on the Pacific side.

For the purposes of the PVSA they are NOT considered individual cruises. The ship is transporting the person from FLL to SD. The stops you mention for the Panama Canal portion, also make the entire trip compliant.

The roundtrips are fine. By the way, all of these are considered individual cruises, so if you are doing these as a B2B2B, there is not a complicating factor.

 

The trip from FLL to San Diego needs to stop at a "distant foreign port". Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao and Cartegena qualify on the Caribbean side. I believe Costa Rica does on the Pacific side.

Costa Rica is in Central America and does not qualify as a 'distant' foreign port. EM

Who would've ever guessed that we have so many maritime lawyers here on CC?

Costa Rica is in Central America and does not qualify as a 'distant' foreign port. EM

Not true. Any port that is not US territory is considered a "distant foreign port". Does Costa Rica fly the US flag.... no. Just because it is located in Central America does not mean it is a United States port. How about South America. Do you think that all of the countries in South America don't qualify as a "distant foreign port" because the continent they are located in has the name "America" in it? Only the continental US, and it's territories and possessions count as US ports. Anywhere else in the world, even Bimini island, 50 miles off the coast of Florida qualifies as a "distant foreign port". And the Bahamas are part of North America.

Last spring I booked a b to b cruise N.Y to Montreal then Montreal to Boston. About 2 weeks before the cruise HAL called and said that I couldn't go because I was in violation of the Jones act. This was about 2 months after we booked. There were approx 10 Canadian ports. I'm still scratching my head over this.

Not true. Any port that is not US territory is considered a "distant foreign port". Does Costa Rica fly the US flag.... no. Just because it is located in Central America does not mean it is a United States port. How about South America. Do you think that all of the countries in South America don't qualify as a "distant foreign port" because the continent they are located in has the name "America" in it? Only the continental US, and it's territories and possessions count as US ports. Anywhere else in the world, even Bimini island, 50 miles off the coast of Florida qualifies as a "distant foreign port". And the Bahamas are part of North America.

You are confused. The PVSA differentiates between foreign ports and "distant" foreign ports.

Any cruise leaving a U.S. port and returning to the same port must stop at a foreign port.

Any cruise leaving a U.S. port and ending at another U.S. port must stop at a "distant" foreign port. These are specifically defined by the PVSA.

Not true. Any port that is not US territory is considered a "distant foreign port". Does Costa Rica fly the US flag.... no. Just because it is located in Central America does not mean it is a United States port. How about South America. Do you think that all of the countries in South America don't qualify as a "distant foreign port" because the continent they are located in has the name "America" in it? Only the continental US, and it's territories and possessions count as US ports. Anywhere else in the world, even Bimini island, 50 miles off the coast of Florida qualifies as a "distant foreign port". And the Bahamas are part of North America.

Ah, no. The distinction of a "distant foreign port" is defined by CBP in order to limit carriage of passengers between US ports. CBP's definition of a "distant foreign port", as pertains to the PVSA, is "any port not in North or Central America, the Caribbean or the Bahamas, with the exception of the "ABC" islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao). In enforcing the PVSA, CBP says that "closed loop" cruises (one that starts and ends in the same US port only needs to call at any foreign port, but that if a cruise starts in one US port and ends in another US port, must call at a distant foreign port.

Last spring I booked a b to b cruise N.Y to Montreal then Montreal to Boston. About 2 weeks before the cruise HAL called and said that I couldn't go because I was in violation of the Jones act. This was about 2 months after we booked. There were approx 10 Canadian ports. I'm still scratching my head over this.

As noted above, the PVSA requires a "distant" foreign port for a cruise that begins in one US port and ends in another.

For the legal definition of "distant foreign port", see 19 CFR 4.80a.

Last spring I booked a b to b cruise N.Y to Montreal then Montreal to Boston. About 2 weeks before the cruise HAL called and said that I couldn't go because I was in violation of the Jones act. This was about 2 months after we booked. There were approx 10 Canadian ports. I'm still scratching my head over this.

You can't use a foreign-flagged ship to travel from N.Y. to Boston without stopping at a distant foreign port. Those are the ABC islands and ports in South, but not Central, America. Canadian ports are not distant foreign ports.

If is is all one continuous voyage, the segment from Ft. Lauderdale to San Diego makes it OK since it has to stop at a distant foreign port to make it legal; the stop in Colombia satisfies that requirement.

The round-trip segments out of Ft. Lauderdale and San Diego don't matter. You will go from Ft. Lauderdale to San Diego with a stop in Colombia.

Last spring I booked a b to b cruise N.Y to Montreal then Montreal to Boston. About 2 weeks before the cruise HAL called and said that I couldn't go because I was in violation of the Jones act. This was about 2 months after we booked. There were approx 10 Canadian ports. I'm still scratching my head over this.

In May of last year I booked my upcoming Montreal to FLL cruise. Within maybe 24hrs I received the following from HAL:

ITINERARY CHANGE NOTIFICATION:

Thank you for booking an upcoming cruise with Holland America Line. Please be

advised that due to the Passenger Vessel Services Act, this sailing cannot be

combined with ms Veendam - 09/30/2017:

09/30/2017 to 10/07/2017 from Boston, MA, US to Montreal, Quebec, Canada

If you have any questions regarding this message, please contact our

Reservations team.

I booked directly with HAL, so maybe a TA did not forward this to you?