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Greenwich instead of Tower Bridge for JR 2018 - disappointment!


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When Azamara first announced their 2018 itineraries, the JR cruises that were supposed to start (and finish) at London Tower Bridge have been highly advertised and extolled as a "first" by Azamara (has been done by Oceania) and an example of the ability of Azamara to do things that the other, bigger , ships can not.

Even only a month ago, while we were on the Journey in the Baltic sea, Captain Magnus mentioned the Tower Bridge cruises of 2018.. and how great that will be.

Well.. now it seems that even as he spoke, our "Tower Bridge" cruise of September 10, have been quietly changed. Not only the embarking have moved from TB to Greenwich (and we've done that already several years ago - also on Azamara!), but some other things have also been changed.. An overnight in Greenwich has been added (don't need that) and the stay in Bordeaux have been cut by one whole day.

To make it worse.. We haven't been notified about the changes, neither by Azamara nor by our TA! After I've seen them by chance on the Azamara website (and then looked for the roll call), I contacted our TA. It seems that they haven't been notified either.

(now everybody is putting the blame on Irma :o).

 

Very frustrating..

 

miriam

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So sorry for the changes!!...and the lack of notice by AZ...trust me...not the first!!! (T/A of '18 changed and now the T/P of '19 changed with notice to me by CC first!!)

 

We were lucky enough to sail with Captain Smith up the river and dock at London Bridge a number of years ago!! So no...it is not a first for AZ in any way, shape or form! I'm not sure what is going on with AZ...but changes are everywhere these days!! And not handled well by AZ at all IMO. LuAnn

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Lu Ann,

Indeed, I've read the thread about the changes in other itineraries. Not that it's that much of a comfort to know that it happened before.. Even if now we can all commiserate together! :)

 

Phil, I'm curious.. How long have you known about this change?

I don't know what upsets me more.. the change itself, or the lack of transparency.

OK.. that's not true.. the change itself is so much worse. :mad::)

miriam

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Lu Ann,

Indeed, I've read the thread about the changes in other itineraries. Not that it's that much of a comfort to know that it happened before.. Even if now we can all commiserate together! :)

 

Phil, I'm curious.. How long have you known about this change?

I don't know what upsets me more.. the change itself, or the lack of transparency.

OK.. that's not true.. the change itself is so much worse. :mad::)

miriam

Probably a year.

 

Phil

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I can understand your disappointment but Greenwich is a wonderful place too. You say you have 'done' it before. If you want to experience the river trip, under Tower Bridge then just take the Thames Clipper from the same place that your tender will dock. It's a lovely ride, especially at night. We look forward to seeing Azamara on the River. Recently Viking Ocean have been in Greenwich on several occasions and it has been well recommended and reviewed.

Again I am sorry for the disappointment but I was also aware some time ago that Tower Bridge was not going to happen for Azamara. i think I read something about the Port of London not now allowing ships of this size.

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Lu Ann,

Indeed, I've read the thread about the changes in other itineraries. Not that it's that much of a comfort to know that it happened before.. Even if now we can all commiserate together! :)

 

Phil, I'm curious.. How long have you known about this change?

I don't know what upsets me more.. the change itself, or the lack of transparency.

OK.. that's not true.. the change itself is so much worse. :mad::)

miriam

 

I never looked so i knew since spring 2017. I am on the cruise before you.

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Probably a year.

 

 

 

Phil

 

 

There was a previous thread on this exact same subject on Cruise Critic about 4 months ago I think... From memory, ships this size are no longer allowed all the way up to Tower Bridge.

 

As for notifications, if you booked via a TA, they clearly should have done a better job for you. Azamara does not notify you directly unless you booked directly.

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Sorry, I can't blame my TA for what has happened. As far as I know she has never been notified about the change, although Azamara had ample opportunities to do just that (see below). And the more I learn about how many people did know about the changes - and how long ago they knew - the worse it all looks.

 

Let me explain.. We booked this cruise initially in July 2016 while onboard a ship. But in May 2017 (!!) I noticed that the price of the type of cabin we booked have been reduced - so, on my request, our TA approached Azamara in order to adjust it. The answer was that it can't be done this way and we have to cancel.. and then to rebook as a new reservation. So we did just that. Had to pay cancellation fees and of course our "booking onboard" OBCs have been taken away. Fine.

For that we got the new price (since then it went up again), new reservation number - but still the same "old" itinerary on the very new confirmation! During all the conversations between our TA and the Azamara people about the canceled OBC, penalties, etc nobody mentioned that the itinerary that still appears both on the website and our new confirmation document is not correct. Mind you - this document has the date of 31 of May 2017.. long time after so many already knew that this is not going to happen.

 

To Mrs Miggins.. As I mentioned we've already been with Azamara in Greenwich, so if it had appeared on the original itinerary, I don't think it would have caught our eye the way Tower bridge did. Also (of course!) have done the Thames Clipper!

The additional downside of the new itinerary is that - unlike the original one - it has an overnight stay in Greenwich. The ship is supposed to leave only on the next day in the early afternoon (which is neither here nor there). We like London, so we planned to stay there few days before the cruise. The night that will be spent at the "hotel in Greenwich" is (for us) a waste of time. ( especially as that must be the reason why the stay Bordeaux have been shortened by a whole day)

 

miriam

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Oh, Phil, this makes it so much worse. We rebooked this cruise late May this year and nobody alerted us about the changes.

It sounds almost like a conspiracy by Azamara to deliberately mislead in order to keep people interested in this itinerary!

 

miriam

Miriam, I can't remember where I heard it or who told me. It was in the course of conversation and certainly a while ago it was apparent that Journey would be unable to stop all the way up by Tower Bridge.

 

Hopefully you can still enjoy Greenwich. A friend lives on the other side of the river in Limehouse and there are some nice places to eat and drink there. I know it's not the city, but if you want some ideas then FB message me.

 

Phil

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I can of course be accused of being partisan about Greenwich since I have a home there but also I am a Londoner. In Greenwich you can view the Old Royal Naval College designed by Sir Christoper Wren, as well as the sublime Queens House, the first Palladian House in England designed by Inigo Jones plus of course the Greenwich Observatory, Cutty Sark plus lots more. Also as Phil has said some great pubs across the river. I hope that others on your cruise enjoy their time in Greenwich and at least you are not in Tilbury. I too would be really upset to miss out on an extra day in Bordeaux.

 

London is of course the finest city in the world and I understand that Tower Bridge is an iconic image, but to me it is only a late Victorian Gothic feat of engineering and cannot compare to wonderful, and often brutal, history of the Tower of London next to it. However I will admit to be delighted to be on a London Barge some years ago when the Bridge had to open to let us through.

 

It is appalling that you were not aware of this important itinerary change. It seems that Azamara are really struggling to get anything right at the moment. We all know that once onboard they are great but your disappointment will undoubtedly affect the enjoyment of your cruise.

I have been cruising on Azamara since 2013 and reading about Azamara on cruise critic since then. There have always been some criticisms but it seems that the number of critical posts appears to be rising and rising.

Azamara cannot be unaware of this unfortunate state of affairs but can they do anything about them ?

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In 2009 we sailed up the Thames on Journey and should have moored at Tower Bridge.

We also had to moor at Greenwich, they told us it was because of work in preparation for the 2012 Olympic Games.

Anyway we spent a lovely day in and around Greenwich and really enjoyed it.

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I can of course be accused of being partisan about Greenwich since I have a home there but also I am a Londoner. In Greenwich you can view the Old Royal Naval College designed by Sir Christoper Wren, as well as the sublime Queens House, the first Palladian House in England designed by Inigo Jones plus of course the Greenwich Observatory, Cutty Sark plus lots more. Also as Phil has said some great pubs across the river. I hope that others on your cruise enjoy their time in Greenwich and at least you are not in Tilbury. I too would be really upset to miss out on an extra day in Bordeaux.

 

London is of course the finest city in the world and I understand that Tower Bridge is an iconic image, but to me it is only a late Victorian Gothic feat of engineering and cannot compare to wonderful, and often brutal, history of the Tower of London next to it. However I will admit to be delighted to be on a London Barge some years ago when the Bridge had to open to let us through.

 

It is appalling that you were not aware of this important itinerary change. It seems that Azamara are really struggling to get anything right at the moment. We all know that once onboard they are great but your disappointment will undoubtedly affect the enjoyment of your cruise.

I have been cruising on Azamara since 2013 and reading about Azamara on cruise critic since then. There have always been some criticisms but it seems that the number of critical posts appears to be rising and rising.

Azamara cannot be unaware of this unfortunate state of affairs but can they do anything about them ?

 

I so agree that many of us here on CC love AZ! but...let me be frank from my point of view... changes are being done (at least for me) with out any notice for those impacted...and it is just getting worse and worse IMO. After having changes done to two of my sailings in the last month or so...and without any notice ( I HEARD it here on CC) to my TA...it is getting a little OLD! I DO love AZ...and I still have bookings on them ( I sail in early November) but it is getting old and worn out now!!!! Please AZ...GET it together!!! LuAnn

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I can of course be accused of being partisan about Greenwich since I have a home there but also I am a Londoner. In Greenwich you can view the Old Royal Naval College designed by Sir Christoper Wren, as well as the sublime Queens House, the first Palladian House in England designed by Inigo Jones plus of course the Greenwich Observatory, Cutty Sark plus lots more. Also as Phil has said some great pubs across the river. I hope that others on your cruise enjoy their time in Greenwich and at least you are not in Tilbury. I too would be really upset to miss out on an extra day in Bordeaux.

 

London is of course the finest city in the world and I understand that Tower Bridge is an iconic image, but to me it is only a late Victorian Gothic feat of engineering and cannot compare to wonderful, and often brutal, history of the Tower of London next to it. However I will admit to be delighted to be on a London Barge some years ago when the Bridge had to open to let us through.

 

It is appalling that you were not aware of this important itinerary change. It seems that Azamara are really struggling to get anything right at the moment. We all know that once onboard they are great but your disappointment will undoubtedly affect the enjoyment of your cruise.

I have been cruising on Azamara since 2013 and reading about Azamara on cruise critic since then. There have always been some criticisms but it seems that the number of critical posts appears to be rising and rising.

Azamara cannot be unaware of this unfortunate state of affairs but can they do anything about them ?

Dear Mrs Miggins (and all the others who cared enough to react) ,

I don't have a house in Greenwich :), not a Londoner, as you can see not even British, but I gladly share your love of this city of yours. Its history, its monuments, its absurdly devious streets, roads, lanes, crescents etc (with the"look left, look right" reminders) . the literature that has sprung from and about it - and (last but not least) its theatres. That's why we can count the number of our past visits there well into 2 digits - and were so happy to have this opportunity to revisit.. This time to spend a couple of days there before starting a cruise from this iconic venue of Tower Bridge. Well.. this part of it won't happen.

As I mentioned we've been to Greenwich already - and not only while on Azamara. Even before our cruising times we visited its monuments.. On a personal note, I have bitter-sweet memories of visiting the Naval Observatory in 2001 with a dear English friend (alas, he's not with us anymore), who explained to us ( with our poor "metric" brains) the logic and superiority of the Imperial units system. It was hilarious!

But that's neither here nor there..

 

I too love the Azamara ships.. We started on them in 2009 (Iceland) and it was (at least for me) a "love from the first sight". In my view the 2 Azamara ships have the best Hotel Directors, the best Cruise Directors, great Captains - and the best, most amiable crew on the high seas. Since our first cruise with them we thought we found a "home". Well.. it hasn't exactly worked out that way. When Azamara became more inclusive it became too "rich" for us (we always joke that we don't drink enough to justify to hike in cost :o)- and we moved more towards Celebrity. But still .. from time to time we find an "irresistible" itinerary and then we can compromise on the cabin to make it more "reasonable" . This way somehow we've managed already to do 10 cruises in eight years on the two Azamara ships. And have still 3 more planned for 2018 and 2019.

 

I know that all I am doing here is to vent my frustrations. Because what else can I do?

To the obvious question - how could they change the itinerary and not let us know? - the obvious answer is - they could and they did. With not even one word of apology! (wouldn't THAT at least be nice?)

And apparently, as others wrote here, it's not even the first time?

Now all that remains it to watch very closely our (already booked) 2019 itineraries on the Quest. Goodness knows what can happen there!

miriam

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Miriam,

I'm with you and left a whiney vent on our roll call last week when I discovered the change. I also rebooked in July to take advantage of a new price promotion and saw no change in itinerary then. The novelty of sailing from TB was why we originally booked and a new sail-away time of 2:15am as opposed to 6pm is another disappointment...

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As far as I know I learned three times on CC of changes before my agent got notice. 2019 has changed so much that AZ should stop putting out cruises 2.5 years or we should stop booking.

 

I get to decide on Europe m AK to Japan or ?

Have a few days to decide.

 

Meanwhile my Caribbean cruises should be really interesting before I go to S America.

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Sorry, however really don't understand the consternation over a distance of less than 4 miles and 20 minute boat ride. With all the things happening in the world, this is simply not understandable. I have been "cruising" since 1949 crossing the Atlantic on Ocean Liners to 30 years on ships in the US Navy to more "cruise ships" than I can remember. Things happen. Schedules change. In this case its likely more a change dictated by the City of London for security and safety than by Azamara. Change is common on the seas. Last year we had to change (Azamara) from Istanbul to Piraeus for security reasons. Have just been notified of a schedule change (Azamara) of over a month for a Pacific crossing. Weather has trashed ports in the Caribbean requiring changes. Change is a fact of life. Consider it a positive.

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I really understand OP's disappointment. We had booked the Aug. 30 "Copenhagen to Tower Bridge" [that was its name!] cruise when it first came out [paying the full rack rate and hoping for a later sale]. What drew us to it was specifically the Tower Bridge overnight that would serve as a boutique London hotel. By the time sale prices were available the end point had changed to Greenwich, and on reflection even at the lower price it just didn't appeal. Instead we are taking Viking's British Isles Explorer itinerary from Bergen to ... Greenwich. We're still missing the Tower Bridge overnight, but the rest of the itinerary is more appealing.

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Globehoppers,

Some of us are upset not only at the change, but the lack of notification. Yes, Greenwich is just 4 miles away, but for a number of us who cruise a lot for pleasure and were looking for something novel, changing from a 6pm sail away from TB to a 2:15am sail away from Greenwich is probably not the "scenic" departure along the Thames we were hoping for. TB was being heavily hyped onboard by onboard booking personnel as well as senior staff. If this is a safety measure it is certainly understandable (I, too had a "swap" for Istanbul, so "get it"), but communicate and let us know the reason and is leaving in the dead of night a safety measure? Maybe, but it sure messes with our former double overnight in Bordeaux.

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Sorry, however really don't understand the consternation over a distance of less than 4 miles and 20 minute boat ride. With all the things happening in the world, this is simply not understandable. I have been "cruising" since 1949 crossing the Atlantic on Ocean Liners to 30 years on ships in the US Navy to more "cruise ships" than I can remember. Things happen. Schedules change. In this case its likely more a change dictated by the City of London for security and safety than by Azamara. Change is common on the seas. Last year we had to change (Azamara) from Istanbul to Piraeus for security reasons. Have just been notified of a schedule change (Azamara) of over a month for a Pacific crossing. Weather has trashed ports in the Caribbean requiring changes. Change is a fact of life. Consider it a positive.

 

Respectfully, because you seem "not to understand" what's the fuss is about, let me try to add and sum up what others have already (so eloquently) said about it:

1. choosing a cruise is not like being conscripted into the Navy. We do have a say where and when we go - choosing our cruises by their itineraries, dates and prices. If the itinerary is changed - for whatever reason - we like to be informed about it. And this is probably the main reason that this all smells so bad.

As Suzanne mentioned below, since this itinerary had been first published, the TB part of it has been touted and hyped as something novel and "special". I still heard it with my own ears as recently as a month ago - by the Captain (!) of the JR, while onboard the ship. If that's not dishonest, I don't know what is.. (and I don't mean the Captain, but the main office which kept the old itinerary on their website until very recently.. Even though - as I learned here - many somehow knew about the imminent change as far as a year ago!).

So how come that at this time and age.. when I get an instant email and a text message every time there is even the slightest change in our booked flights' details (5 minutes delay, 2 minutes advance) , neither I nor my travel agent has received anything "formal" from Azamara about these changes? (and this is true until this very moment!) .

We are talking about just 2 ships, not the US Navy, for goodness sake. How difficult can it be to keep track in order to notify the (loyal) customers about what's going on?

 

2. The changes themselves. Let's say that the change from TB to "4 miles from there" was necessary because of security/safety reasons. So what safety reason can there be to leave us there for an additional day (and night)? And why the change of the hour of departure on the second night? What advantage is there to sneaking out of Greenwich at 2 AM (!) instead of a sail out in the evening? Where is the "scenic sail" on the Thames which too were touted as something so "special and unique" to this cruise? For all practical reasons we may as well sleep in Southampton! (who knows? with all these "positive changes" we may still end there! :eek: )

 

3. Which brings us to Bordeaux.. I am well aware that there were changes to the Caribbean ports because of the weather. But I have yet to hear about the hurricane that affected Bordeaux. Let's stay real.

4. I do admire your stoic attitude towards the changes in yours (and others' ) plans. But however "positive" you find them, I still won't wish you too many of them. Perish the thought, but you may get the one that you really, but really don't like.. .:)

 

smooth sailings to us all

miriam

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My guess about departure times is that they have to work with the tides. I don’t know how far ahead tide tables are published. I think the Tower Bridge decision was down to the Port of London Authority, not Azamara. However I do agree these changes should have been communicated as soon as they were known.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

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My guess about departure times is that they have to work with the tides. I don’t know how far ahead tide tables are published. I think the Tower Bridge decision was down to the Port of London Authority, not Azamara. However I do agree these changes should have been communicated as soon as they were known.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

At this point anything is possible. But while the embarking venue has been moved by "less than 4 miles", the sail out time has been moved ahead by 30 (!) hours. Hard to believe it's only because of those "unexpected" tides.. Especially as Google just told me that tides are totally predictable and well known decades ahead. :)

I know.. being a great fan of the Azamara brand, I too would like to find some rhyme or reason for all this. Wouldn't it be nice to hear from somebody (with some authority) from Azamara itself telling us what happened? Maybe about the Port of London.. tides.. the lack of communication.. whatever.. An apology of sorts would have gone a long way too.

 

By the way.. Talking about incompetence and sloppiness of the "land part" of Azamara. I've just visited the website page of our cruise.. Lo and behold - although the itinerary has been already corrected, the text still "rhapsodizes" about what can be done on our THREE days in Bordeaux (already reduced to one and a half day by the on -the- same- page corrected itinerary! ). Here it is - copied and pasted:

Spend three days exploring Bordeaux, where our smaller ship can sail all the way in to Port de la Lune. As we dock right in the center of town, you can walk to the eighteenth-century buildings along the quay or around the spectacular Jardin Public. Cyclists can tour the quiet back roads. Wine lovers can tour one of the top chateaux in the region, Saint-Émilion. The medieval town is charming, the wine tastings superb.

What can I say? The Azamara crews on sea really deserve better than that.

miriam

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