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@LSuzQ I read your first post and before I responded, I read all the responses. I think you are looking for a strategy to approach these two dining venues. Part of that strategy is how to gain a glass of wine with your meal in a normal time frame. That is that take I have on your question. My wife also drinks wine and likes it prior to the food coming. Many here has said the wine service whether lunch or dinner is a bit slow at these venues. That is you clue. Here is the strategy my group used. We would go to an open bar, prior to lunch or dinner and get a glass of wine. We would bring it into the two venues you indicated. Same concept is for breakfast at the Main Dining Room but for coffee there. We would go to the Barista, get the specialty coffee and bring it into the Main Dining room for breakfast. That is what I mean for strategy. As it relates to additional glasses of wine, I would find a server, explain we love wine with lunch and point to my table. I also got to know the servers and on occasion, would tip them. By the second day, the issue outlined of slowness was gone when they saw my party. The key to your question and the responses given by those that have cruised Oceania is strategy. You handle and issue before it happens so it never happens to you. Not knowing the issue or that it could be an issue leaves us open to possible disappointment. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A You must be very excited. Get ready to get that same request several more times. Why they do that, the lord only knows. I lost count on how many times they sent the link to me. The bottom line is, not sure they know if you watched it or not. You will have to watch it or something just like it when you get to your cabin also. Kind of like many cruise brands want you to do a picture when you check in. Then take a picture of you at the port. Enjoy your cruise, have a great time. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Many moons ago, I was on all the major social media platforms. Just like mostly everyone else. Then a trend happened that created major confrontations. So I deleted all those platforms and the ONLY social media site I frequent is CruiseCritic.com. WHY, because it is a kinder and gentler place. Now my topic is look for trends and patterns. Even thought this platform is much less confrontational, there still can be some folks that are over opinionated for a personal reason. So to add to the topic which is designed to help new 1st time cruisers, here is a way to look at things. When you choose a brand, ship, cabin, itinerary, excursions and the list goes on, you go to the blog that focuses on those items. You ask question and hopefully you gain answers. You quickly notice that the answers are in three categories. 10% GREAT: 10% of the folks that provide information are all about how perfect everything is for your brand. The Brand can do no wrong. These folks create an expectation that this is the ONLY brand to get you, the new cruiser, the best experience. This creates unrealistic expectations. How do I know this, I fell for it and it made me disappointed on that cruise. 10% HORRIBLE: 10% of the folks commenting or posting say everything about the brand is horrible, awful the worst. Each of these folks have a story to tell which has created this deep felling of disappointment. Yet, they are as passionate about how them feel as the 10% GREAT guest feel. 80% In The Middle: 80% of the folks have some what balanced comments. Here is where we should spend out time. Let us bring in the notion of Trends and Patterns now. One brand build a new ship that is truly lovely. Yet from the start, posts were happening about the thin walls and notice from one cabin to another. As time went on, there were conflicting reports of noise. When we look at the Trend or Pattern, it becomes clear noise has been a legitimate issue for some. To many people are making the comment and outlining what they felt. That is an example of a trend or pattern that can help you. Set Your Expectations Accordingly: You make an evaluation if the 95% positive comments about the entire ship and experience needs to be not considered because of a 5% negative comment. If you make the choice to go on this ship, you give up the right to act surprised if you have some noise in your cabin. The important part of this statement is you knew, you weight your options and you made a non-pressured informed decision. That education approach will allow you to set realistic expectations for your upcoming experience. That makes for a much better overall cruise experience. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A My guests were in a Penthouse. They did not have much trouble with reservations. But my suite was almost a guarantee to get anything we wanted. Why I share this Oceania is no difference between most other lines. Is it worth getting a upper end suite, like Oceania, Vista and Owners Suite? To some, not others and I will never do it again. Investment vs. Benefit for ME ONLY, is simply not enough. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@pinotlover Believe it or not, sometimes folks who post do have a clue on how things work. Many do little to know real research then when they don't get what they want, the blame game happens. Other are of the camp, everything is perfect or everything was wrong. It is so very important on social media to provide all the details so other have realistic expectations. Not to do so, and I mean this from the heart, creates in many cruisers disappointment because it was there expectation. That is YOUR very important point. We can actually mess up someone else's cruise. Thanks, everyone can have a better time is we are always transparent on the important details. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@pinotlover To your point, there is a huge different when you are on an upper suite. Oceania, Vista or Owners suites. I was in a Vista Suite, I changed and added specialty restaurants. I was NEVER turned down once. Now I met many people on the cruise that did NOT have that kind of success. They got a few reservations while on the ship, they were early or late. My Butler told me that although they are not allowed to openly talk about it, the upper end suites are rarely told no. My point is, there is a case for those that say, we ALL have complementary specialty restaurant reservations but for most cruisers, they are HARD to get or change while on the ship. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Petula Snark You can ask, but I can't answer it. WHY, because every cruise has a different desired outcome. Family fun, Mediterranean journey, Adult Vacation, Specific Destination. and the list goes on. The key is, know what you want, then match the brand, stateroom, and level of cruise quality to your goal. I hope that makes sense. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Overview: I am sixty-seven and my wife is sixty-five. We have gone on thirty plus cruises. Our first cruise was our honeymoon 44 years ago. We have booked inside cabins and Owners Suites as well as everything in between. We have cruised every mainstream cruise brand. We have also cruised Premium, Premium-Plus, Luxury and Ultra-Luxury brands. We also have a cruise sub-category called a “Ship-Within-A-Ship” which is a VIP area on a mega mainstream cruise brand. Prior to selecting a new cruise brand, type/size of stateroom, or class of service; I do extensive research which I share here on CruiseCritic.com My approach to Cruising: I prepare for my cruise with the outcome that everything thing is booked and paid for prior to getting on the ship. Most of the brands I cruise are NOT all-inclusive however after I do my due diligence, the vacation is as close to all-inclusive as possible. I do not want to have surprises in the form of an expensive stateroom portfolio on the last morning of the cruise. I also read as many comments as possible from real cruisers who pay for their vacations. Unlike celebrities or influencers. Uniquely I read the good and the bad folks write because both educate me on how to get the maximum value and enjoyment out of my cruise vacation. As part of my approach, I utilize what I learned in my business career related to consumer comments both good and bad as it relates to Trends and Patterns. Trends and Patterns: The best example is a recent negative comment about excessive noise in a stateroom of a specific brand, cabin type, locations, and decks. It became clear that this issue was happening often however not to everyone who was sailing on the ship. Some folks were terribly upset, and others said the noise issue was not on their cruise nor around the cruise ship where they were staying. When the issue, complaint or complement happens enough times on social media, there is something to it. Is it going to be a guaranteed issue for you and your partners? Sometimes? Upset folks tend to post a lot more than those who are satisfied. So, it is less about the number of complaints that you have and more about the establishment of a trend or pattern. The more you research the more you will recognize some familiar members of the social media community. A real melting pot of cultures, wants, needs, and motives. If you want diversity, you have it on a cruise vacation. Some members are chronic complainers. Then there is the person who complains but never actually cruises the brand or category about which they are complaining. At the other end of the spectrum there are the folks where every aspect of the cruise was perfect. A little hint, the nature of any cruise is it is NEVER perfect. It is a floating hotel in the middle of an ocean of water. Things happen which are out of everyone’s control. What you are looking for to get even the closest indication of what you could expect comes from what I call a “well-written balanced review.” When you read it, you know it. As you read more of the balanced reviews, the picture of your potential cruise becomes clear. Do more of the GOOD and manage the BAD: Using the notion of trends and patterns, when you hear a lot of positive things about some item, put it on your things to do. Recently I heard that a Specialty Restaurant on the Oceania Ships is called Red Ginger. It was supposed to be truly outstanding. When I cruised, I went to Red Ginger and immediately did everything I could to dine there again. The alternative is when you hear a lot of negative things. Like again on Oceania, that they tend to miss a lot of ports. On this you must do what I call “managing your expectations.” This means, I tell my travel mates, there is a high likelihood that we will miss a cruise port. I emphasize this prior to the cruise so if it happens, we are mentally and emotionally prepared. If it does not happen then we feel very blessed. I use the strategy of “under promise and over deliver.” With your research list the positive and negative you hear about and make your vacation strategy accordingly. Sometimes, I can have a strategy of completely avoiding an item, so it never affects my vacation at all. It is as if that issue for others simply did not exist for me. Cruises are What You Make of Them: Only you can control your attitude. I learned early on when something disappointed me on day one, that I can choose to focus on that for the next week or let it go off my back like water off a duck. I let it get to me the first time, so my cruise experience was awful. Only happened once and never again. Attitude, Attitude, Attitude. All you can do is control your attitude. One cruise the weather was bad, and the ship was moving right to left like crazy. Many of the passengers on the ship got seasick. Only one day of thirty cruises which was a week or more. My wife and I did not get sick. We do recall walking down the hall not being able to stay in the middle of the hall. We took videos of the water in the pool, had no issue getting into any restaurant we wanted, and had some funny conversations with other passengers while it happened. Unbelievably, that memory which always brings a smile to my face, is one of the clearest of any experience cruising. On another occasion, we were having a horrible meal at a brands specialty restaurant steak house. I said to my travel companions, folks, do not eat. We are going somewhere else. I quietly told the crew, who were spectacular, we were leaving and why. We left quietly without making a scene. Walked right into the next restaurant and had a fabulous meal. We did not spend the rest of our cruise complaining like most folks might consider. Instead, we let management know, and focused on the great meal we had. “Cruises are What You Make of Them.” Conclusion: I tend to plan too much, in way too much detail. That is just me and it is a sport for me. You can plan far less and accomplish as much as I do, creating a wonderful experience. If you choose to do little to no research, due diligence, or planning; you then also must take accountability that you had something to do with the outcome. Blaming others when you did nothing to learn prior to the experience is unfair to the brand, your travel partners and yourself. I hope this topic was helpful to you. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@PurpleBunny84 It is be great. Different from the first time but still great. You will be less stressed, just as excited and more familiar with the situation. Enjoy. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Hello Everyone: If you are new to cruising or new to a brand, consider this mindset. Don't get uncomfortable or upset when researching your cruise because some folks had issues or concerns. You will be missing the point. Learning the pros/cons of cruising allow you to have a very strong strategic plan. If folks comments tend to say something is really positive, leverage that and utilize it when on the ship. Simple example, "Get your coffee from the barista and bring it to breakfast with you." On the other hand, if folks have a concern or issue, now that you know about it, make a plan to avoid it so it is not part of your vacation. If it does not happen to you, it is not a con. This strategy takes many cruises to fully understand. We are often fooled by the marketing a brand has telling us everything is only GREAT. Don't believe marketing. We then look to cruise influencers that are given free cruises to say nice things. Common sense tells you what is wrong with that picture. Learn from folks just like us that pay for their cruise. Just do it with common sense and a grain of salt. Cruises are what you make of them. They never go perfectly. Yet that are all memorable. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Cruzin Terri Yes, I misstated that. My bad. I truly love that area. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@travelfreelasvegas I never did an article on Celebrity Retreat. I did the original "Secrets of the Haven Luxury Experience" in 2019. Followed by the "Secrets of the Haven Luxury Experience" updated 2022. Sorry for any misunderstandings. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A Now you see the comparisons based on other brands and categories be both have cruised. Your questions were my questions before I sailed. A couple of clarifications based on both our past experiences: Making your initial Specialty Restaurant Reservations: Go on line, to the specially restaurant reservation section and see the earliest you can make your reservations to get the date and time you want. Just because we all have one guaranteed reservation for each specialty restaurant it does not mean the restaurant won't fill up quick. Embarkment Day: That hint from an above poster is dead on. For what ever reason, the first night has open reservations. This added to Penthouse and above have access to earlier boarding then other staterooms, snag that reservation before you do anything else. Penthouse and Above Butler Service: Your example is polo grill. As nice as eating in you suite is, it is always a better experience in the restaurant. Try it once and let us know your feelings. Coffee for Breakfast: May I suggest if you like coffee to get a cup from the Barista then go to breakfast. Much better coffee at the Barista and not dining venue has an issue with that. Realistic Expectations: Just because a guest is in a Penthouse or above, does not guaranteed they will get a restaurant reservation the day and time they want once they get on the ship. Their odds are higher but know that it does not always happen. The higher the category of suite, the higher the chances. I know this because I had a very interesting conversation with my butler off the record. Nothing new about this benefit. All that said, this system is SO much better then I was was used to in the past. Outdoor Spa Sundeck in the Front of the Ship: Not sure the ship you are on but the bigger ones have this area which is complementary to Penthouse and above. Bring your own drink, this area is my favorite place on the ship on a nice day. Complementary Laundry Service/Pressing: There are rules and time frames. Don't miss out. Ask your butler and take FULL advantage of this great amenity. This is for Concierge level and above and with Concierge level it is done by room steward. Since this is your first venture into Oceania, I will attach a document I wrote. FAQ for Oceania. Some of the items may have changed with Oceania when to the "Simply More" program. However, the main content should be interesting, Enjoy. Oceania_Cruises_FAQ.pdf Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@CalTexCruiser The Joy has two hot tubs one on each side if I am not mistaken. The pool is indoors in the Haven Courtyard and never an issue for a lounge chair. The Haven Sundeck gets crowded but I have never had an issue getting a nice lounge chair in a nice area. I have no clue about the Cabana's. The only time I ever had one was on the Breakaway in the Vibe Beach Club which I paid for to reserve. My wife LOVED the Cabana. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@kasimir That sound so nice and yes please share. I have done both the Haven and Retreat. Just like everything, pros/cons. Yet both are also an excellent experience. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Two Wheels Only Hello my old friend. Been a long while since we visited online. I know nothing about Princess Sanctuary. On Explora Journeys, I am booked in February 2025 with my older sister. Here is why I booked it. My sister had never cruised before so my first thought was, take her in the NCL Haven on the Joy, Encore, or Bliss. Then because it is my sister and we are sharing a cabin, we needed twin beds that were separated. The Haven only has King sized beds unless you pay extra for a two bedroom or someone gets the pull out couch. PASS on that, not the experience I wanted for her. This opened up opportunities. My Travel Agent suggested Explora Journeys so I did my normal deep dive. Not to much information because the brand which is owned by MSC is just one year old. So I asked my normal questions, called the company for answers to other questions, read some topics on the board here on cruise critic and got a sense of it. Mostly all inclusive with the exception of excursions. Some of the things that caught my eye was: Everyone had the same drink package so no need to show your cabin card for every drink. Complementary stocked Mini-Fridge with welcome Champagne not sparkling wine and two bottle of spirits for each stateroom. Like Oceania, you can bring spirits and wine onboard. The specialty restaurants are included. Some rules to gain reservations like most specialty restaurants. The buffet is a new concept of made to order and buffet that every one seemed to love. Transportation from port to city central. Day bed on every balcony. When you leave your cabin, everyone is treated basically the same. They are making changes as they need to as they get their sea legs so many things are in Flux. Those are the high hard ones. Hope it helps. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@MNcruisingcouple I will do my best. Oceania Riviera https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=708736 The Crystal was to far back before they got sold to current owners. The staterooms are smaller but the service, food, drinks and treatment were outstanding for me. I highly recommend. All that said, Luxury and Premium Plus/Luxury brands are not perfect. There are always pros/cons. Example, food usually better, more things included as part of your fare, older crowd, more reserved but not stuffy. Also, shows are usually not great except for the guest stars which changes each week. Some rules to gain days/time for specialty restaurants, now water slides or virtual reality. Some say this type of cruising is boring, I say give me a drink, hot tub with no children, cigar lounge or outside area to smoke them and I am thrilled. Hope that helps. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Chuck, with my comments, I meant no disrespect. I was not challenging your position or your friends approach to doing business. My perspective was one of 40 years of being a sales professional, then a sales/management trainer for some of the biggest companies in the world. Unfortunately, that ended a bit early because of an acute stroke. I am much better now. Yet all those years created a focus on if you are a true sales professional, do your job, be kind to everyone, share your ideas and the business will come. As it relates to cruising, after some many years of cruising, I do all the due diligence and instruct in great detail to my travel agent everything I want. All she has to do is book it. Where it works out for me and makes her commission worthwhile, is her industry associates that help her when I have a serious question or issue. Not everyone thinks like I do. Not saying they should. I personally, would NEVER pay for information that I can so easily gain myself for some simple research. However, for the benefit of your friend, I hope there are many folks that would like the service. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Since early 2019, I have written many OP-ED here on CruiseCritic.com about the NCL Haven Experience. To say my experience in the Haven has been good would be an understatement. It has been GREAT. When I did my first NCL Haven experience, it was mind opening. Prior, I was ready to stop cruising because I was so disappointed in what cruising had become. Then the notion of a "Ship-Within-A-Ship" was presented to me. Better food, personalized service, padded lounge chairs that were always available, uncrowded public space, early boarding and departure and the list goes on. This was the needed improvement to bring back the joy in cruising again. It also got me to thinking, if this is what happens with a Mainstream Cruise brand for a few lucky Haven cruisers, I wonder what is would be like to go on a smaller, Luxury Brand. Could we get even more of an enhanced cruising experience. I was hoping the answer would be YES but it was not quite that simple. I called my quest the "Luxury Cruise Test Drive". What I did not want to do was break the bank. So, as I do for everything in life, I drilled down to the smallest details. That research is almost as fun as the actual cruise for me. Keeps my mind active at 67. First I went on a Crystal Cruises journey just as Covid was allowing folks to cruise again. Pros/Cons but it became clear, there was a positive difference in key areas of my cruising experience. Following this I went on my first 10-day Mediterranean Cruise on Oceania Cruises a sister brand to NCL. I consider Crystal Luxury and Oceania Premium Plus/Luxury. Again, pros/cons as compared to my Haven experience. Now I am going to cruise on a new brand by MSC called "Exploria Journey" which is a new Luxury Brand. My point in this post is never limit yourself to one brand, approach, type of stateroom or experience. Weigh the options and know it will not be everything you want. There is always pros/cons. Match your next cruise with the cruising experience you desire so do some research. Then share the positives and the negatives with us here on CruiseCritic.com. I promise I will NEVER be the person to push back because you find joy outside the Haven or NCL. The goal is know what you are getting, leverage all the value to get maximum benefit, educate other, and enjoy your vacation. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Sorry I brought this topic up. Let me be clear, when I was in the H2 Deluxe Owners Suite on the NCL Joy, they never tied down my deck furniture. EVER. When I was in the same sized and positioned suite on the Oceania Riviera, they tied down the furniture every early evening when the ship was sailing the next day. Did I like it, NO. Did I really care, NO. The lesson I learned was first, don't book a stateroom in the front of the ship because the wind when it is sailing makes using the deck at night almost impossible. Second, the larger the room, does not make the cruise. In both cases, it was a bucket list item and I am glad we did it. I would do it again but it would have to be a "up-bid" situation or greatly discounted as both were in my examples. I don't think in the rest of my cruising life, those to situations will ever happen again. Cruises in general are what we all make of it. Nothing every goes perfectly. Part of what I like about cruising. You never know what to expect. Sharing my stories over time is never meant to be negative. It is meant as food for thought. Education if you have not experience the same thing as I have. When posters give both actual positive and negative experience, it helps us all to embrace the positive and avoid the negative. Both make our next cruise even better. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@chill6x6 I have never heard a travel agent charging a retainer. Especially a new travel agent. Folks that ask a lot of question and don’t buy, are in all industries. Comes with the territory. Yet when a sales and travel professional establish their clientele, service them, those clients stay with them regardless of future discounts. As I do with my agent. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

So here is the deal. When you have a suite in the front of the ship, the wind at night is serious. They were afraid the furniture would move and be an issue. When you have an Oceania Suite, very large also, the balcony, is on the side so no need to lock down furniture. The Owners Suite is in the back of the ship so no wind issue, however the balcony is split in half and the suite is large but not really suited for most folks unless they are entertaining a group onboard. The suite to get is the Oceania Suite. Look, give the four day cruise a try. Worth a try. I call it a Luxury Cruise Test Drive. I have done it for Crystal Cruises and there is a world of difference all around. Whether Crystal, Oceania, Regents Seven Seas, Ritz-Carlton Yacht Collection, Silver Seas or Seaborne, these smaller ship, have a way of providing luxury in a nice way. However, everyone has their own set of likes and dislikes so keep the studing going. Regardless of what you do, you will have a great time. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

I was on the Oceania Riviera, I has the second largest suite called a Vista Suite. Bigger then the Owners Suite on the large NCL Ships in the Haven. I would never book it again. The deck was huge, half the front of the ship. At night they lock down the furniture making it stand only. The suite was lovely, but my friends had a PH2 with a side balcony and I have booked that for the next Oceania Cruise. The noise issue on Oceania Vista is widely debated. Oceania is doing some renovations to fix this issue. But the Riviera had no such issues. This happens all the time, by you won't be the first. I did that exact thing starting in 2019 here on CruiseCritic.com. Now look at the price of the Haven. But it was a hell of a few years of pure enjoyment. Enjoy your cruise, you will have a GREAT time. Never stop sharing. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@Daniel A Hello my precious. I miss you. Daddy really misses you. I will come and visit again one day soon. Thank you for the memories. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

@luckyinpa Thank you for the comparison. Before folks take issue with anything you said, I am the OP of this and two other very popular Haven OP-ED since 2019. Your overview is both accurate and in my humble opinion fair. Why is this good for both the Yacht Club and the NCL Haven. It creates a very clear outline of Pros/Cons TODAY. The Haven started the concept of a "Ship-Within-A-Ship". It was wildly successful. Then competitors like MSC, Royal, Celebrity came in and took what the Haven did well and kept it, and improved it. NCL knows this and if they want to keep the NCL Haven successful for the upcoming years, they have to follow suit. I believe they will because not doing so will lead to a mass lose of this very profitable guest. Funny thing, as much as I love the Haven and I really do, my next cruise is on the MSC luxury brand called Explora Journey. When I did a full comparison including all perks given, Explora won the comparison. Consider Explora Journey as the Yacht Club on steroids since when you leave you stateroom, everyone on the ship which is smaller, is treated the same. After that cruise I will be going on a 10-day Mediterranean cruise on Oceania on their new ship the Vista. Again, I did the comparison and on this itinerary, Oceania won the comparison. This will be my second Mediterranean 10 day cruise with Oceania. Just like Explora Journey, the Oceania to me is the NCL Haven and MSC Yacht Club on steroids. I love that everyone is treated basically the same. Now to all my fellow Haven lovers, this does not mean the Haven is bad. It just needs to make some adjustments in their approach to keep up with their competition that they created. This entire situation reminds me of what happened when Lexus Vehicles were created. They took over the Luxury Car and SUV market. Mercedes Benz used to the the king of the road but then they lost market share. Mercedes Benz came back strong to compete with Lexus. So will the NCL Haven. That is my hope and humble guess. I love we have options since we all work extremely hard for our money. So Bravo to your well written overview/review. Thank you for taking the time, being honest and transparent. I respect your view. Cruise well and enjoy every moment.