Peter Lanky

Azamara has known this for some time. Journey is travelling around Africa, and scheduled to be in Walvis Bay on 21st May. There was never a possibility of reaching Athens within 8 days.

We were on the now cancelled Singapore to Athens cruise on Journey on 3rd May and have now been 'lifted and shifted' to a cruise next March. However I have been keeping an eye on things and it seems the Journey is definitely going around Africa as a 'Japan to Greece' 41 night Grand Voyage at the absurd price from £15,798. I can't see anyone jumping in at that price. This also includes the scheduled Japan to Singapore section. However, the maths doesn't work out. Stopping at Walvis Bay on 21st, it seems to be planning to leave people in the middle of the ocean on 29th May. 🤣8 days non-stop at 20 knots would probably end up somewhere off the coast of Mauritania, so good luck to anyone trying that.

That's fair enough as a last minute thing. It's when no cabins are available 12 months before sailing that it becomes annoying.

This is similar to what I previously referred to as the Lourdes Effect on aircraft. I encountered a woman in Johannesburg who was brazen enough to say that the had requested wheelchair assistance because her hand luggage was too heavy (and therein lies a whole new subject). Shen then demanded from random airport staff that she was thirsty, and needed somebody to bring a drink, and then later something to eat. Like 75% of the other passengers on this flight who had requested assistance, she left the aircraft immediately, not wanting (or needing) to wait for the assistance staff, after landing.

I was merely responding to another statement with somebody describing themselves as being a 'larger person' with no further elaboration. I did not see anything significantly different in my adapted bathroom other than it having a walk in shower, grab rails and an emergency cord, plus the obvious wider door. I can't see how the facilities therein would have been any more benefit to a clinically obese person than anyone else. The toilet was no larger and no higher than any standard one. Everything in this bathroom could easily have been replicated in a standard cabin bathroom other than the wide door. As an aside, the Japanese are way ahead of us with accessible toilets/bathrooms. The doors slide instead of being hinged and the toilets resemble Captain Kirk's chair, with buttons everywhere, as well as being significantly higher than a standard toilet.

You may well be right there, which goes back to why I asked the question in the first place. I am effectively looking for reassurance from people more experienced in cruising than I am that they have seen for themselves that accessible accommodation is not being abused.

In the same way that I am attempting, both to raise awareness among people in general, and lobbying the cruise lines themselves, you could do the same and attempt to get more bathrooms with shower and toilet facilities more favourable for larger people. This would be a far simpler process than that required to make a cabin accessible. The cruise industry needs to move forward, and the only way to do this is to highlight the different problems that people have in both using cabin facilities, and those in public areas. The people sat pushing buttons sat at desks in HQ have no comprehension of any of these issues unless somebody tells them. Regarding your last sentence, you would be able to use a standard cabin, albeit with some discomfort. A wheelchair user would not be able to go on the cruise.

They could simply ask on a declaration form 'Do you need the wider doors of an accessible cabin in order to enter/exit the cabin/bathroom, and get people to sign up to it. If they lie on the declaration, there would be consequences which the cruise line would have to decide, but at least it would deter most who are just trying to get a larger cabin. Only a dedicated few would bring their own wheelchair simply to qualify.

Most of the time the two go together, along with a similarly wide bathroom door. However there are many disabled people who could benefit from an adapted bathroom, because that is the only difference other than the door size, but don't require the wide door. Any bathroom could be converted to aid the walking disabled, and as I said, P&O states that there are some rooms that fit this description, or could do if fitted with some grab rails, shower seat and emergency cord. Much the same applies to disabled toilets anywhere, and I've lost count of the number of times I've sat outside a disabled toilet in severe discomfort, only to see the occupant come trotting out with that smug 'You can't challenge me' look on their face. Accessibility and disability are definitely two different things.

I'll try to summarise the last few posts here. My original question was that of cruise lines allowing people to book accessible cabins when there was no requirement to have a wider door to gain access. The rest is I suppose widening the scope of discussion. It seems that there are passengers who are only allocated one for storage purposes, which is something easily addressed. For example, P&O seems to have numerous cabins suitable for people with limited mobility who do not need the wider door. Then of course we have passengers who 'try it on', which is another part of my question, to which people have suggested that cruise lines are becoming more strict, which is a good thing. Just as an aside, walking passengers will probably not have noticed that the number of wheelchair 'users' boarding flights, particularly long haul, far exceeds the number disembarking. Flying must have a Lourdes effect. It seems people like the benefits of speedy boarding, but don't like to wait until last to leave the aircraft. Much as I have tried, I cannot find any online article specifying how many wheelchair passengers per crew member are permitted by law. A quick sample suggests to me that ships typically have 1.5-2% of cabins designated as accessible (wider doors). Assuming the majority only have 1 disabled passenger, then that is less than 1% of the complement. Without doing extensive research which is not what I'm all about, I suspect this is nowhere near the legal limit for crew member to wheelchair passenger. Again, I'm sure maritime laws differ from terrestrial laws, but there are many laws around disability discrimination, but there are none regarding being single or possession of children, though I fully accept that solo travellers get a bad deal from cruise lines. So to conclude, quoting 'supply and demand' is not a helpful way of dismissing the problem, though I suspect that until laws are tightened, then this view will dominate.

I think we've already been there.

It depends on what maritime law describes as disabled. Do they differentiate between 'disabled' and 'inconvenienced' for instance? I have no idea what this percentage is, and I suspect finding the answer would not be easy. Also anti-discrimination regulations should trump any supply and demand issues if everything is done in the same manner as I have had drummed into me on countless training courses during my career. Giving fair treatment to genuine disabled should not be subject to supply and demand as I see it. If not, everything I have been taught (before becoming suddenly disabled) was all in vain.

In these enlightened (allegedly) times, this should not be the case. Far lesser things have been classed as discrimination than this, and we (the disabled customers) need to put more pressure on the cruise companies to address the problem. I shall certain be making the application of this pressure a priority in my spare time.

As a wheelchair user, I am interested to find from experienced P&O passengers if they believe that accessible cabins are regularly being used by people who do not require them. Before the cliché 'Not every disability is visible' is thrown into the conversation, I thoroughly agree with the sentiment of the phrase, but then not every disability needs an extra wide door simply to get their wheelchair through it. I have enquired about a couple of P&O cruises recently only to be told that there are no accessible rooms available, so that is the end of any hope of going on that particular cruise. I have observed on another cruise line the accessible cabin next to me was being used by a couple who could walk through the door, and as the ship was not full by any means, it seems odd they they should be using this, though obviously there may be a valid reason that only the cruise line knows about when they allocate rooms late in the day. Again I am well aware that people know that accessible rooms are larger, and fancy a larger room at no extra expense, but it would be good to know that hopefully cruise lines are thoroughly vetting people who book these as having a genuine need.

I feel particularly let down by Azamara, because I need an accessible cabin, and most ships have so few that it's impossible to secure one late on in the day. By hanging on, the chances of finding a replacement cruise in May are dwindling, when almost everything is Mediterranean based. Oceania may well be getting quite a few new customers as a result of these delaying tactics.