dan2097
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Posts posted by dan2097
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2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:
When you overly "hedge" your argument, it simply raised red flags as to its accuracy. You want to paint the "all countries" picture, but when you hedge it with "practically", "other than", and "unless...otherwise" your point loses all substance.
If I didn't hedge my argument then even a practically irrelevant counter-example like a microstate could be given. For developed countries https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/34577/in-which-developed-countries-other-than-the-us-does-the-price-tag-not-usually
backs up my point. Japan switched back to requiring prices inclusive of VAT to be shown in April 2021.
2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:But NCL actually CAN offer the service. Not their fault when a governmental authority imposes a tax. But tax or no, the service IS still available to the guest.
You suggest they should increase the price of the Free at Sea. By how much exactly? Isn't having each guest pay their fair share of the VAT the simplest and fairest answer? If not, what do you propose that would be more fair to the guests?
These arguments are essentially a microcosm of the decisions that NCL have had to make when pricing an unlimited drinks package in the first place. If all guests actually fully used this it wouldn't be viable. NCL will have stats as to how much drinks are on average consumed at each location, and hence would be able to estimate how many drinks are likely to be consumed and hence what the expected mean VAT bill will come to. An unlimited drinks package is inherently incompatible with a "fair" distribution of costs, people who drink more are subsidised by those who drink less.
I don't disagree that it's fairer for guest to pay their own VAT, but that's also true of drinks in general.
2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:The fact that a VAT can be imposed, along with the fact that the guest is responsible for its payment, is noted TWICE in the T&G of the Free at Sea packages. The guest agrees to those terms at the time of purchase. So isn't NCL already making their customers "aware of this at the earliest opportunity, including when buying the package"? If the customer doesn't read the published T&Cs is that NCL's fault or does the customer have any responsibility at all?
This comes down to the level of consumer protection in different countries. In the UK you can't pitch one thing then have this contradicted in the small print of the T&Cs. Given that some descriptions of the package do elude to this potential charge e.g. https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/790164-BEV_Package_Flyer_UOBP_PPBP Update_V7_no_crops.pdf but some do not e.g. https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/UK_Consumer_FAS+.pdf I have no idea whether it would be enforceable if contested.
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On 9/22/2023 at 6:49 PM, njhorseman said:
Yes, I'm aware that it's a British publication and I know that the laws are different there.
I'm also aware of the reputation of the British tabloid press...and this publication was a tabloid when it ceased putting out a print edition and continues to be considered a tabloid today.
I'm also aware of the Spanish VAT...there's a thread about it posted here seemingly every 15 minutes.
The headline is exactly what I am reacting to. It's classic British tabloid clickbait .
Oh, the nerve of another sovereign nation to apply a tax to English citizens!! I guess it's easier to blame it on the cruise line, which is not imposing the tax but merely collecting it on behalf of the Spanish government than to blame it on Spain.
The Independent isn't a tabloid and the headline is correct for almost the entire world. In practically all countries other than Canada/United States prices are VAT inclusive unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Given that NCL cannot offer a free at sea service in Spanish waters, the ethical thing would be easier to increase the price of Free at Sea in applicable itineraries, or to make customers aware of this at the earliest opportunity, including when buying the package.
While the underlying issue is clearly Spanish regulations, the customers are dealing with NCL not the Spanish government, and NCL are failing to be transparent that they cannot deliver what they're selling.
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10% VAT tax added to all "free at sea drinks" on NCL while in Med?
in Norwegian Cruise Line
Posted
While historically newspapers in tabloid format were associated with the style of journalism, more recently traditional newspapers have also switched to the tabloid format due to its convenience e.g. The Times.
Given the title includes the explicit qualification that it's only in Spanish waters I still don't think it's that click baity.
That would fall under my second suggestion of making the guest explicitly aware of it when they're deciding their package, as opposed to potentially only when they see it in their daily patter.
My only uncertainty is whether when a beverage package is purchased from European sales whether the pricing of the beverage package includes VAT, as generally you don't pay VAT twice on the same product (you could argue the drinks package and drinks are separate, although that's usually the business' problem rather than the consumers). My understanding is that in the US/Canada the beverage package doesn't include sales tax, so it's more clear cut that VAT would be applicable in places that charge it.