On 11/20/2020 at 9:05 AM, tallnthensome said:

The decision to get onto a cruise or into certain ports in regard to the vaccine will be their decision, not yours. The only decision you will make for yourself beforehand is if you get the vaccine or not. The lines will have final say if you get on board, not you. 

You are correct.

Just like they did for SARS, MERS, Zika, TB, the flu, smallpox, and a variety of other diseases.

What makes you think SARS-2 will be any different?

I mean, besides a simple change in the testing metrics changing PCR testing from 40 cycles to 27 cycles to get rid of all the false positives.

Meanwhile, again, good luck to everyone who is going to be getting a vaccination from a vaccine that was developed in a rush for cash with zero long term testing done. Normal discovery and research phase for vaccines is 2-5 years, and that is using a known virus. Developing a vaccine in 8 months is not only going to make companies filthy rich, and be damned with side effects.

Here is a good article from the recent Zika vaccine issue dated 2016:

https://qz.com/751478/why-it-takes-so-long-to-develop-a-vaccine-against-a-new-epidemic/

Oh, we still don't have a working Zika vaccine. Or a SARS or MERS vaccine.

Call a lawyer.

I expect that NCL will do everything it can to keep your money and refuse you any form of refund while constantly increasing the cost of you rebooking.

How am I missing the point?

These restrictions will destroy the cruise industry. I already had to rebook a cruise that was cancelled earlier this year. I was given a 10% extra credit against the price of the cruise.

The 10 day cruise is not being offered, and the 7 day cruise is 30% over the price I paid for the 10 day cruise.

If I also have to pay extortionist prices by being forced to do ship's only excursions I can guarantee we won't cruise again.

As for the virus? As I said, the majority of testing is done using PCR testing, which has created a HUGE amount of false positives.

The flu kills 30-60 thousand in the US each year. TB kills over a million each year worldwide.

Are you mandating that every person get tested for the flu and TB before cruising? At least those tests are accurate.

Oh, and again, feel free to be among the first to get vaccinated. They have been working on a vaccine for SARS-CoV since 2002 with limited success in animals and severe side effects in humans. They have been working on a vaccine for MERS-CoV since 2012 with the same results. They started work on a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 in 2019, long term effects are completely unknown.

The plus side is if it causes sterility like the other vaccines sometimes do in human trials we will have population reduction.

Sadly there is a very good chance that there will be a cat owner on any given ship who will give a false positive for the test.

Every single person my wife works with has tested positive with the PCR test and none have developed anti-bodies showing that all 30+ were false positives. Just like all 77 of the false positives from the NFL testing.

Until they lower the cycle count down to where it should have been to begin with we will continue to have a huge number of false positives.

PCR testing is currently set at 40 cycles. Normal testing for viruses is 27 cycles. We have a known issue with testing that results in a huge amount of false positives.

Then we have the media running around saying that you should not rely on a negative test because you may still have it and still be asymptomatic, and still not develop anti-bodies. Still not sure how all that works or what scientist says that is possible.

Then we have the common cold, the flu, and any other number of diseases that can be transmitted between people.

I say instead of mandating what the world should do in this case, maybe you should take personal responsibility and decide for yourself if you want to cruise, or travel at all. Even with accurate testing if you get tested a week before your cruise and then travel you can come in contact with it and be contagious right when getting on the ship.

Oh, and good luck with the new vaccine. SARS was discovered in 2003, SARS2 was discovered in 2019. We still don't have a vaccine for SARS that doesn't have long term negative effects. What makes you think they magically made a vaccine in 12 months for the cousin of SARS and know what long term effects it will have?

The only real concern here is finding a good parking spot. Shore diving is extremely common here so you will see a lot of vehicles parked on the side of the road for divers.

Look for the painted rocks and they will also tell you the name of the site.

On 3/16/2020 at 11:00 AM, CI66774 said:

Masks do nothing to prevent infection in a healthy person.

Masks are worn to prevent sick people from breathing, spitting (accidentally), or sneezing on other people. This is why it is common for sick people in Asian countries like Japan to wear surgical masks.

If you are wearing a mask to prevent someone from sneezing on you and it getting in your mouth, you may wish to purchase full face masks to protect your eyes instead. These can be reused and come with a handy hard hat in many cases. Or just wear a motorcycle helmet which will also stop you from touching your face.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised

UK coronavirus crisis 'to last until spring 2021 and could see 7.9m hospitalised'

OK folks, guess this means everyone should stay home in isolation for the next 18 months and then we can go back to normal.

3 hours ago, bmwman said:

It is - why else are people wearing  masks. 

From CDC 

The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

• Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). - 
• Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

That is direct transmission. Airborne is carried on the air and transmits across MILES, not 6 feet.

3 hours ago, bmwman said:

Oh well it cancelled anyway but none of your precautions were safe. Knuckle on lift button really. The whole thing its air bourne and unless you were going on the cruise in a hazmat suit.  

Please note that Covid-19 is NOT airborne.

49 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-cautionary-tale-italy-dont-do-what-we-did/?p1=Article_Feed_ContentQuery

'Many of us were too selfish to follow suggestions to change our behavior. Now we’re in lockdown and people are needlessly dying.'
 

Perhaps it is time to stay home for a while.

Or remember to treat this like any other flu and wash your hands with soap and water instead of hiding in your homes and counting toilet paper.

Yes, the .7% mortality rate is a concern, and for those people that are high risk they should avoid other people. FOr the majority of the population, there really isn't a lot you can do to avoid this.

Do you go to work with other people?

Do you ride the still operational NYC subway system?

When this hysterical panic is over, Mom & Pop places, hotels, restaurants, other small venues, will have gone out of business from lack of patronage. Big corporations will happily close in and take over their market share.

Meanwhile, those working jobs and living paycheck to paycheck will go to work, or they won't get paid and probably lose their jobs.

The hospitality industry is the 5th largest industry in the US employment, while wholesale and retail industry is the 2nd largest industry employment. This panic is doing exactly what several groups want, destroying the US economy in a manner that it may take years to recover.

It also may force the November election to be put on indefinite hold due to a state of national emergency.

And yet it is most likely that people going to work sick are going to be the greatest spreaders of this virus, just like with the flu.

20 minutes ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

That's awesome about the park.

 

I wasn't making a joke.  They are actually currently working on military hospital plans.  

 

Maybe start putting them in arenas or convention centers.  Some place with a good ventilation system.   

WDW was actually built with that in mind as part of their tax incentives.

And putting them in arenas and conference centers would be a terrible idea. While they may have decent ventilation, they have decent ventilation, without medical filters. Unless we know exactly how long the virus can survive outside a host the facility would have to be shut down until that was determined to be clear. Or replace the entire duct work system.

1 hour ago, Isabella Benjamin said:

The military is going to have to set up field hospitals. 

 

What better place that Disney?

WDW FL is already set up for conversion in to military use at any time.

I think it is funny some of the reactions to this.

CA bans any large gatherings that don't generate large tax amounts, but the parks can stay open and have people intermix just fine. Disney closes and the Governor's office says that they never meant to ruin people's vacations and for the parks to close.

NY bans gatherings of people that don't generate any tax fees, but leaves open the entire NYC subway system intermixing 1 million + a day to spread any diseases.

The fear mongering is so evident in how places are reacting to this.

1 hour ago, luckyinpa said:

why is something like the NYC subway less likely to spread this than cruise ships? ive seen stats a few mil a day use the system. no cruise ship is that big. it just seems like more of the proverbial petri dish than the largest cruise ship. and if youve been in the stations you know its not the most well ventilated sometimes

Because people are going to travel no matter how much fear mongering that there is. And NYC doesn't want to lose billions of dollars in revenue and basically stop everyone from going to work by shutting down all transit stations.

You have a choice, go on a cruise with 5000 people, 1 of whom MAY have the virus. And spend a lot of time around the same people.

OR

You can stay in NYC and travel the transit system with 1,000,000 PLUS different people every day,  any one of whom may be infected.

Statistically which do you think is more likely to expose you to the virus?

29 minutes ago, murfette said:

But in places where there is no close options and if port is closed wouldn’t this be grounds for a refund?
We are cancelling and will wait to see how it plays out but would rather get a refund then fcc. My question is if port closed wouldn’t the cruise line be obligated to refund?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

If you cancel prior to the port closing they would have no requirement to do anything other than FCC as that was the case when you canceled.

5 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

 

your math is wrong (your mortality rate is wrong too). 

 

The goal is to flatten the curve so that if we do have many millions infected we have the medical infrastructure to handle it. The "lets everyone just get sick and get it over with" would crush the system and cause unnecessary deaths. 

20 million deaths is .7% of roughly 285 million people, with is roughly 90% of 327 million people living in the US.

The .7% number is based off the number of deaths scientists are attributing to the virus outside China. Or do you mean to use the 3.4% number that WHO used to describe it that people took out of context?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24532733-700-why-is-it-so-hard-to-calculate-how-many-people-will-die-from-covid-19/

51 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

If we go short on the Italian death and infection rate the USA is looking at around 20 million deaths. About the same as WW2 total. 40x US losses in Vietnam. This year. Washington and Oregon combined. +.  Plus a few more added in for giggles. One third of Cali. Manhattan x2. Like that. Have fun kids.

With a mortality rate of around .7% 20 million deaths means 285 million cases.

So if you are estimating that 90% of the country's entire population will get the virus no matter what why are you worried about people going on cruises?

I mean, if you plan on being part of the 10% that has zero physical contact with anyone else in any case cruisers don't really matter.

Biggest will be the aft balconies or the forward balconies. Jewel has non-Haven aft suites with really nice balconies, but you do have to contend with the ash from the stacks.

1 hour ago, sailthesea said:

I shudder to think of all the passengers returning, not doing self-quarantine, and passing it on to vulnerable populations. People are DYING because of this. It's not the time to go on a cheap cruise.

It is scary I know, over 56,000 dead in the US alone for not doing self quarantine at the first sign of illness.

I mean really, people should just stay home the second they think that they are even slightly ill and not go to work or leave their homes at all.

The flu this year has killed so many people. Anyone who went outside over the last few months is just so inconsiderate, let alone ANYONE who dared to go on any sort of winter vacation. Those bastards just wanted to kill grandparents by getting the flu and bringing it home.

Oh, and there is this new virus that has killed just over 4,000 people on the entire planet so far that people are freaking out about. I don't understand that at all.

They have shifted a lot of their pricing back to more normal in anticipation of people canceling and rebooking.

Yesterday our balcony cabin was $635pp, today it is $989pp, $10 less than we paid for it and not worth being on hold to get a credit, let alone cancel and rebook.

On 3/8/2020 at 4:45 PM, julig22 said:

Think I will add straws to my list (paper or reusable, don't freak out.  I live in Oregon and I don't think we even have plastic ones!).  People do touch the rims of glasses when serving or in my case the can of soda.

If you have ever been in a warehouse where sealed cans are stored you would wash them before opening regardless. It is amazing to see the difference between the immaculate storage of made cans prior to filling and how bad warehouses of cans are waiting for distribution.

These numbers are ONLY the numbers from the US:

52,000 people died from the flu in the 2019-2020 season in the US (1 Oct 2019 to 29 Feb 2020)

620,000 people were hospitalized from the flu in the US.

23,000,000 people went to the doctor for the flu in the US.

49,000,000 people are estimated to have had the flu in the US.

Worldwide Coronavirus counts:

109,723 documented cases, estimates are between 5 and 8 times that number of actual cases.

3,802 deaths, estimates are approximately another 10%, or less than 400, deaths that were not identified.

Of the 44,961 cases still active, 86% are classified as mild.

Of the 64,762 cases that are considered resolved, 6% resulted in death, 94% resulted in recovery and discharge.

This is a new virus, but it isn't as bad as the media frenzy is making it out to be. The regular flu killed 13 times more people in the US alone than the new Coronavirus has killed worldwide.

Had terrible butler service on the Jewel trans-pacific in 2018. The only time the "treats" got replaced is if they were all gone and got pretty much terrible all around service from him. We were in an aft suite, so it may have been too much trouble for him to bother to go to the back of the ship. Had excellent service from the concierge and room steward.

Thankfully we didn't really need anything from the butler, and the poor room steward had to work super hard because for some reason the ash from the stacks comes down on the aft balconies so he was out there cleaning them every chance he got.

8 hours ago, cruisekitty22 said:

We are going on our cruise and not giving it another thought.  I would never cancel it.  This is for the Bliss March 22-29, 2020.  Just hoping they don't cancel our cruise altogether.

Headed out on the Epic 22 March, not so much worried about the virus but don't want to miss ports.

That said, if they turn away too many cruise ships they run the risk of having cruise lines cancel the stop and change itineraries even before sailings, this means a huge loss of revenue for the islands.