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About ew101

  • Rank
    Cool Cruiser

About Me

  • Location
    USA Midwest
  • Interests
    Cruising in Europe, cruise history, older ships, sailing
  • Favorite Cruise Line(s)
    Any line that still has ballroom/Latin/two step dancing and a promenade deck 15+ cruises.
  • Favorite Cruise Destination Or Port of Call
    Med or anyplace really.

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  1. They are going to a good home and not scrap thankfully. These are lovely ships. "High yielding cabin mix" is a code word for balcony cabins which are in short supply on the really old tonnage they are replacing.
  2. I think person to person virus transmission continues at sea...
  3. The word magical was chosen carefully. "Previous attempts to develop a vaccine against the coronavirus diseases SARS and MERS established considerable knowledge about the structure and function of coronaviruses – which accelerated rapid development during early 2020 of varied technology platforms for a COVID-19 vaccine – but all the previous coronavirus vaccine candidates failed in early-stage clinical trials, with none being advanced to licensing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine Vaccine development is not a sure thing. I think sensible measures should be taken to slow the spread of the virus on board passenger vessels while we wait.
  4. Short of a magical vaccine (that almost everyone agrees to take) the "turn back the clock to November 2019" scenario seems pretty improbable at the moment. This was just tried at scale in Florida and Arizona. I'm not sure it went very well. I'm not impressed by the work of the lines so far. Nor it seems are the governments. The bad news to guests- like wearing masks -will come from a commission. That way, like a firing squad issued some blanks, exactly who exactly delivered the suggestion will remain unknown.
  5. Chengkp is right. The idea is to band together and make (big) industry wide safety changes. And have standardization of protocols. And it sounds like mutual aid for problems. Which has been the Law of the Sea forever - helping vessels/mariners in distress. I would personally like to see an "arms race" across the lines for who can make the safest ship. (And the one with the lowest emissions but that is off topic).
  6. I was pestering ChengKP on the HAL board to increase the percentage of outside vs recirculated air in public areas. And make other changes to help the droplets and possibly aerosols leave as soon as possible vs being recirculated. This topic has just appeared in the EU documents. It took 40 years for the simple proven cure for Scurvy to be adopted by the Royal Navy - I hope the CLIA moves a little faster.
  7. The EU has just issued a document asking for this change https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557 "All of the air handling units (AHUs) should be switched from recirculation to 100% outside air by closing the recirculation dampers (via the Building Management System or manually) whenever possible. In case it is not possible to completely stop the recirculation of the air, the ship should explore improving air filtration as much as possible and using HEPA filters or Ultraviolet Germicidal Irradiation (UVGI)."
  8. Remind me on 7/3/20 what basic important facts we still don't know? It is a brand new virus so caught many by surprise. I think we have a pretty good handle on dealing with Noro but it still has mysteries.
  9. Given that some of the most reliable places to catch COVID-19 this week are bars, health clubs and nursing homes, it would seem a modest bit of study on moving shipboard indoor air flows around would be prudent. It is sad for our hobby here that COVID-19 violates many industry rules and best practices. So change will be hard.
  10. Ok more progress. Thank you. So if we take a lovely ship like the Rotterdam, and pick out a public space. Do a simulation of adding a bunch of floor and wall vents. The idea is as guests sneeze and cough and even talk the droplets go largely down and out or out a wall vent but not sideways. So you establish a new airflow pattern. This is super hard if you have take apart stateroom ceilings apart and reroute stuff but should be possible. The idea is safe(er) indoor public spaces can be created. The same with cabin corridors. You might need new intakes every six feet so any droplets go sideways and out and not 25 feet forward or aft. It is the airflow in the sneeze/droplet zone as you have pointed out that is critical. I keep thinking outdoors is safer but there have been a few beach/event outbreaks. Genting may be fine for a while with no material changes to the ship as people from Taiwan are rule followers- and will wear masks. But not at the bar or while actually eating. One new outbreak aboard and the port/health authorities (already gun-shy) will go berserk.
  11. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/air-conditioning-may-be-factor-in-covid-19-spread-in-the-south/ This has no real facts but I wonder if the recirculation percentage can be reduced on a ship in common areas easily?
  12. Ok now we are making progress. Experts have been consulted. So I'm in my stateroom having tea and reading a book- I'm 100% safe. Out for a socially distant walk on the promenade (not on most lines lol) or six feet apart on a lounger- still safe. If I am at dinner, and the couple four feet way at the next table are shedding virus via droplets, those are wafting by. If I'm at the bar- I'm breathing recently shared air and possibly droplets. Can the public area airflow be re-directed so what happens at the next table stays at the next table? Either up to down or down to up. Or at a table by the window or wall just out. We have this in cold climates with "air doors"- yes it is unfair but we are fighting the "Floating Petri Dish" model with engineering. As I write this they are in certain places re-closing bars and health clubs - both are major amenities on cruise ships. Genting Cruise Line just said they had 100% fresh air in staterooms- so not an academic discussion at all. https://www.foxnews.com/travel/dream-cruises-first-cruise-line-world-operations-coronavirus
  13. If I ran a major cruise line what I would do right this minute is find the best cruise ship engineer I knew 🙂 and roll out a set of ship blueprints and say this: If this was 1917, the only ventilation you had was pulling in outside air. We have this now in cabins, plus AC. Can we do this for public areas? Change the model to have positive pressure and maximum outside air and the bare minimum of recirculation. So air comes in from the outside vents, is chilled and pumped into the public spaces from above then is vented out right away. This will involve cutting lots of new vents (lower outside walls and in floors). And is not how it has been done. But can it be done? The idea is to push the droplets down then out. If it works for guest cabins, can it be scaled up to larger public spaces? There is of course energy wastage - but there may be creative ways around that.
  14. Thanks, ChengKP for jumping in on this. We have excellent data on person to person direct droplet transmission. And the idea a draft might waft the droplets around seems obvious. But are ultra fine droplets a long way away a viable transmission method? The fact you can smell secondhand smoke in a ship lobby says yes air is being recirculated, and yes fine particles are in play. Can the smallest droplets carrying virus particles survive a fifty foot trip though intakes, ducts, filters and outlets? If this was true we would all be at risk buying groceries - and we are not. Bigger indoor areas like malls seem safer indeed. There was that famous case of the church choir- but they were singing and reasonably close together. I think the goal needs to be- what can be done to make the inside of a ship the safest it can be. And it's not more hand sanitizer.
  15. The topic of possible COVID-19 transmission via or facilitated via HVAC is back in the news. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/29/malls-in-new-york-state-will-require-air-conditioning-systems-that-filter-the-coronavirus-gov-cuomo-says.html ChengKp has briefed us on this, and the summary was- stateroom to stateroom transmission is a no, but public areas are well filtered but perhaps not to full hospital standards. The HVAC industry has a white paper here, which says basically- yes aerosol transmission is potentially possible, and can be mitigated three ways: 1. Outside air 2:.Increased filtration (i.e. HEPA) 3. UV treatment. https://www.ashrae.org/file library/about/position documents/pd_infectiousaerosols_2020.pdf This topic might come up in the CDC/CLIA type discussions. In my opinion, public areas on cruise ships would need HVAC changes - not cheap or easy- to being in more outside air and to recirculate as little as possible. This is costly in terms of air conditioning/energy costs- there may be creative partial work arounds like heat exchangers. (A side impact would be less indoor smoke). I wonder if the UV treatment works? Or can you filter more? Probably time (again) for the Bat-Signal. In a related topic, the dreaded and hated simple cloth masks did pretty well in a real world test here- I know a little statistics and n=140 is a reasonably good sample size. https://www.livescience.com/hair-stylists-infected-covid19-face-masks.html http://www.tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size/
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