chengkp75

For the OP, if mom is okay with flights, I'd do the one way from Quebec, as it has a bit more diversity, and then take the Acela train from Boston to NYC and spend a couple days in NYC, rather than start/end in NYC. Both do Portland, which IMHO (thoroughly biased), is key to any NE itinerary.

For those interested, I'll expand on the topic of "short term" and "interim" certificates, since this seems to be a problem for VVR, and of concern to owners/passengers on Odyssey. Most classification society certificates are either "life of ship" or 5 year renewal. These are called "full term". They normally require an annual survey, as well as a renewal survey at 5 years. "Interim" certificates are issued when the vessel has met the class requirements during the most recent surveyor, and the surveyor's report has gone to the class society for review, and this takes some time before the "full term" is issued by the society (the surveyor cannot issue a "full term" certificate). So, in many cases, the Odyssey would likely be in compliance on many of the certificates she needs, but the documentation has not been issued by class yet, though there is always the possibility of the class review requiring more work. "Short term" certificates are issued when additional work is needed, but not sufficient to consider the ship to be unseaworthy, or requiring delays to the vessel. These typically cover paperwork additions that need to be promulgated and filed with class (like providing compliance certification for various equipment from the manufacturer). "Condition of class" are typically repairs to hull or equipment that need to be completed within a specified time frame in order to maintain the "certificate of class".

I won't answer the blogger above, either on his blog, or in email, but since he seems to read this thread, I'll chime in here, for the benefit of CC readers. As far as additional regulations for South Pacific ports, the only one I can think of is the hull cleaning requirements for New Zealand, that lines like Cunard and Princess fell afoul of a couple years ago. The hull must have been cleaned within a year of entering NZ waters, there must be a hull fouling management plan, and the ship will likely be subject to an underwater survey prior to being allowed in NZ waters. There are some passenger count limitations at some Pacific islands, and some islands are still off limits since Covid, like Isle of Pines. As to the comment that the US has far stricter regulations than any other country, if that was a quote or inference from me, then I was misinterpreted or I failed to express myself correctly. I would not say that the US has stricter requirements than other countries, because under international conventions, a country cannot enforce stricter regulations on foreign ships than what the international convention applies, except for ships that fly the flag of the country in question. In other words, the USCG does have stricter regulations than nearly every other country, but they only apply to US flag vessels. Also, the USPH/CDC Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) is not noticeably stricter than the EU's "ShipSan" program, though it does go into more detail than the WHO's vessel sanitation regulations. With regards to certificates, the 800 lb gorilla is the "Classification Certificate", which is the mother document for all the other certificates. This was issued on an interim basis, and expires Christmas day, and without this certificate, the ship cannot sail. Full stop. I also note that even after the certificates that are either interim or short term that need renewing in December, there are more interim certificates due in March, one of which is the Safety Management certificate. This requires that a Safety Management System (SMS) be implemented both by the company and the ship, and this is a lengthy document that outlines how the company does business, in virtually every aspect of business and ship operations. These days they tend to be digital documents only, but a few years ago, an SMS for a small company like VVR with only one ship, would still fill ring binders filling 3-4 feet of bookcase. Now, I know VVR does not have anyone familiar with the SMS process in their corporate structure, so they are likely farming this out to one of many third party SMS consulting firms, but this is still expensive, and very time consuming for the consultants to tailor a generic SMS to the company's profile and business model.

You're conflating two different taxes. The tax paid on the liquor with the Texas stamps is the liquor tax. But when a drink is sold in a bar (whether on a ship or on land), Texas places sales tax on it.

I don't believe any of the nations you reference will charge tax. However, Puerto Rico has a sales tax, but not sure if they charge it on cruise ships. As for taxes in the US, it is only charged in state waters, that only go out to 3 miles, not the international limit of 12 miles.

And, you know this how? Yet, by the schedules you posted above, there is only a 1 hour interference in port times between the POA and Sun on 11/22 (Sun arriving at 4pm, POA sailing at 5pm), that would not have required the 3.5 hour change that happened. And, if the early sailing was strictly due to a berth congestion, do you really think NCL would decide to sail all the way around Kauai, when they could have just sailed slower on the direct route to Honolulu, and saved more fuel? No, even with the extra time at sea from the shortened Maui call, the ship was still very low on water in Kauai, Kauai has poor water supply at the pier, and they left earlier than needed not to suddenly tick you off by going to Na Pali when they said they weren't, but to make more water. And, having worked with cruise ship crew, I still find it amazing how little the average crew member (even one that "works with passengers") knows about what is going on with the ship, or how things work. I've listened to crew giving absolutely false explanations to passengers, and having to step in afterwards and give the passenger the true story. And, if you think this crew member who "works with passengers" would really pass on your thoughts about the lack of communication to someone who could effect change, well, I've got a bridge to sell you. If you are not bringing a complaint or observation to someone with less than 3 full stripes on their shoulders, it will not go anywhere.

Yep, pretty senior. One step up from entry level, and not any supervisory position. Even first line supervisors have solo cabins.

I won't address your concerns with customer relations, as this is not in my wheelhouse, so I never do. However, you seem to intimate that because the ship can make fresh water from sea water, that the excuse of not being able to get water in Maui was a lie. Let me educate you. Yes, the ship can make fresh water from sea water, but the capacity to make fresh water depends on two things: one, the amount of time the ship is at sea (you cannot make water while within 12 miles of land), and two, how fast the ship is sailing. POA spends less time at sea than nearly any other cruise ship in the world, and when she is sailing, she is not sailing at very fast speeds, due to the short distances to be covered. Therefore, the POA cannot generate enough fresh water in the time available to cover the usage for the entire voyage. Therefore, the POA, just like the Pride of Aloha and Pride of Hawaii previously on the Hawaii run, is required to take on fresh water in every port it calls at, and the hoses are connected as soon as the gangway goes down, and remain pumping water into the ship until the last minute before the gangway comes back up at sailing. In Honolulu, they connect 2 or 3 hoses all day. So, unless you wanted to spend the last couple of days of your cruise with the water shut off to your cabin for several hours a day to ration the water, or having the showers shut off, the ship had to leave Maui early, and also to go around Kauai before heading back to Honolulu, as this adds about 50 miles to the distance between Lihue and Honolulu, therefore allowing the ship to go faster and generate more water. And, yes, the reason they canceled the Na Pali coast drive by a while back was environmental, in that by doing so they burn less fuel and create less greenhouse gas. But, on your cruise, they had to go the long way around, burning more fuel, but burning that fuel to be able to make fresh water.

From the slackness of a lot of the mooring lines in previous pictures, it appears to me that the ship is sitting on the bottom, and getting it moving may be more complex than thought.

A lot has to do with the actual steel composition, the older steel being weaker than modern, but more resistant to corrosion. But, yes, fresh water has had a lot to do with it. Actually, the brackish water limit in the Delaware river is around Wilmington, DE, 90 miles up the river from Cape Henlopen/Cape May, and only 25 miles downriver from the SSUS. Further to towing, I would think they would want to seal all the openings into the lower hull (stairways, ventilation, etc) so that you essentially have a sealed box full of air to provide buoyancy, but to prevent any possible downflooding.

I don't believe that Brazil has any additional certification in these areas, even though their regulations are stricter. This is like the US, which has some "no discharge" areas (where even treated sewage cannot be discharged), that all ships have to comply with, but does not require any formal certification of the ship's construction or operations regarding compliance with the regulation. Even the USPH/CDC does not issue certification of compliance for meeting the required Vessel Sanitation Program mandated for US waters, but will issue a "Ship Sanitation Control Certificate" showing that the ship meets the IMO's sanitation requirements (in lieu of the old "de-rat" certificate), if a ship requests it (sometimes developing countries require these documents).

Actually, the steel in the hull is in excellent condition. The major concern with towing the ship is stability, with virtually no liquids onboard. They need to fill the ballast tanks, fuel tanks, and fresh water tanks at the very least, with sea water to establish initial stability. They may even need to fill void tanks. Flooding lower engine room spaces would not help, since the water would be uncontained, and cause free-surface effect, lowering the stability.

I can't say for sure, but licensed liquor sellers in Louisiana cannot give away free drinks, so I believe NCL will charge tax on the "equivalent" price of a bottle of wine. Now that I think about it, not sure if NCL has a "retailers" permit in Louisiana that would allow them to "sell" full bottles of wine for consumption in places other than their licensed bars. It may all have to wait until the ship is outside Louisiana waters.

While not doubting your statement that UK laws could apply in this case, it becomes even more gray due to the fact that since a non-UK flag vessel is concerned, it actually falls into the realm of admiralty law, which is a whole different ball game. If the case is determined to be an "in rem" lien, then the ability to seize the vessel can be done in any nation that accepts the rulings of the country where the case was filed.

I would say that the lawsuit one owner is pursuing gives at least a reasonable assumption that this is the case.

I don't want to get into the middle of you two arguing, but let me just point out a large flaw in your logic. As I've found, the people who own a cabin on the Odyssey are not passengers, and for them VVR is not a "common carrier", so the language in a ticket contract between a cruise line (a common carrier) and a passenger, bears no resemblance to the situation of cabin owners on the Odyssey. Further, there is a difference between disembarking a passenger and keeping the price of the passage for violations of the passage contract, and throwing a partial owner of the ship off and not reimbursing them for their property (the cabin and fractional share of the ship).

Thanks. I just looked into this a bit more, and it gets even grayer. Apparently, the owners get a fractional ownership in the vessel, so for owners VVR is not a "common carrier", and therefore they can likely deny liability as they have in the contract, since the owners are responsible for damages, injuries and deaths in common areas. Where it gets gray is with segment cruisers, who are in fact passengers, and therefore the vessel operator is responsible for a "duty of care" to the passengers, but also the ship "owners" (the cabin owners) are also liable. Even grayer is whether the cabin owners are liable, as owners of the vessel, for damages caused by the vessel, such as the Key Bridge caused by the Dali.

That's pretty much what I thought, but that is a pretty generic hull form for an older sailing vessel, whether sloop, yawl, ketch, schooner, or barkentine, and that is what confused me.

I have a question for our "resident" resident. Does the owner contract state that the owner's have "ownership" of the common areas, or is the purchase price just for the cabin? I ask because it just came to me that condo associations can be held responsible for injuries that happen on/in common areas, so the Odyssey owners may be liable for accidents (whether to owner or "renter") that happen onboard.

First Class and Cabin Class cabins had private bathrooms. Tourist Class had not only shared bathrooms but shared cabins. There were zero balconies. Not sure what a "schooner" shape is, but she had a finer "entry" (a longer taper from the bow to the parallel midbody of the hull) than current cruise ships, and she had a rounded "cruiser" stern, which most ships of those days had, while cruise ships today have a flat or "transom" stern. The cruiser stern was one of the main reasons it was uneconomical to try to bring the ship back into service, as passenger ships are required to have two means of steering (two rudders or two azipods), and it is almost impossible to get two rudders into a cruiser stern, so the entire after part of the ship would need to be replaced.

I suspect that one of the four main generators is down for maintenance or repair. This tends to limit the maximum speed of the vessel, by reducing the available power to propulsion. The engines are torn down for overhaul every 12,000 hours (about 2.5 years), and this can take 3-4 weeks to complete. If the engine is down for repair, this can take longer, depending on parts availability. This is a problem for ships with only 4 main generators, while ships with 5 or 6 generators can better afford to have one smaller generator out of service. It all depends on the itinerary, as many times the ship is steaming slower than full speed, and therefore don't need one or more of the generators. There are no "backup" generators, except for the small emergency generator, but this is limited by law as to what it can power, mainly those circuits necessary to evacuate the ship. I suspect that the current itinerary does not allow for slower speeds, so the temporary generators are needed.

Adventure is the ship that just came out of dry dock in Spain.

Yes, both the USCG and the USPH would need to do initial inspections. The USCG issues a Certificate of Compliance if the ship meets all international requirements (SOLAS, MARPOL, STCW, etc) and all applicable US regulations. There is a fee for this certificate, as well as paying for the inspectors travel and accommodation as required to complete the inspection prior to entering the US. USPH can be requested to perform a "construction" survey, for a fee based on gross tonnage, to ensure that the ship's construction meets USPH/CDC requirements for operation in US waters. This is not mandatory, but ensures that the ship is at least capable of passing a USPH operational inspection, and allows for corrective action prior to entering US waters. Every cruise ship is subject to biannual unannounced inspections while in operation, again for a fee, and if the ship does not get a passing score on this inspection, the USPH can have the USCG pull the Certificate of Compliance, and essentially stop the ship where it is docked, and not operate further until all deficiencies are met. USPH inspections cover nearly every aspect of cruise ship operation, not just food safety. In addition, it covers things like the construction of the galley spaces, the types of screws used in the covers of galley appliances, drinking water system construction and operation, pool safety and sanitation, medical center operation and construction, HVAC including duct cleaning for galley and laundry exhausts, hazmat control, pest control, housekeeping, lighting, and on and on. Both USCG and USPH will plan on inspecting the vessel at the first US port of call, and both can trigger delays or stoppages based on these inspections. The peephole is a minor consideration required by the US Cruise Vessel Safety and Security Act (CVSSA), which gives the US limited jurisdiction over crimes committed onboard while in US waters, or against US citizens in international waters, and sets requirements for security officer training (crime scene investigation, record keeping, etc) and reporting to the FBI of certain crimes. I hate to cast aspersions, but given VVR's past performance, I would not be surprised if they intend on operating in polar waters without documentation, hoping that no one will find out. That is a good way to get the ship's class documents (your car's safety sticker) withdrawn, and with that goes the ship's registry (your car's title), and she could be stopped from sailing at any port where the violation is discovered.

Only those ships flying the Australian flag have to pay Australian minimum wage. The vast majority of cruise ships are "flag of convenience", and are under ITF (International Transport Workers Federation) wage contracts. The minimum wage for a seafarer on an ITF contracted vessel is currently $666 USD/month for a 40 hour work week, with 125% overtime for hours over 40/week. That works out to be $3.89 USD/hour straight time, and $4.86 USD/hour for overtime. Given the 98 hour work week typical of cruise ships, that comes out to about $1850 USD/month. This minimum wage is applicable to all ITF contracts (most foreign flag cruise ships) anywhere in the world.

For the vast majority of cruise ship crew, this is not the case. India, Indonesia, Philippines all tax gratuities as normal income.