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New Flyer, is PE worth it for long-haul?


Jasalth
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Bit older thread but we have some experience with this and if it helps anyone we’re just back from flying PEY on AA, LAX to SYD return. Our AA flights actually began and ended in Detroit but were economy MCE except for the very long haul transPacific flights. In comparison we’ve flown CX PEY from YYZ to MEL via HKG last year and on NZ AKL to SFO the year before. In comparing any of these premium economy products to their own economy seats, well, there is no comparison. The seats, recline and leg room are far better (more like domestic first) and, with variations amongst the airlines, food, drinks and service are also much better than economy.

 

Our first trip to Australia in 2016 we were on an NZ ticket but flew the United 787-9 in economy plus, LA to Melbourne, for which, as has been said, the only benefit was a few extra inches of leg room. On the return we were on NZ metal and bid for (and won) an upgrade to PEY. After that I told my husband I was not doing the trip again unless we could afford prem econ. It was absolutely wonderful in all respects.

 

On Cathay Pacific in 2017 we were premium economy on all flights and while it didn’t quite measure up to NZ service and amenity wise it was still a wonderful experience and well worth the extra $ above economy. One really cool bonus was that they have a camera mounted near the landing gear which was visible via the air show on IFE and you could watch landing and take off from that perspective and take a peek below the plane at various points in the journey. The flight path for that one was over the North Pole which was really interesting visually.

 

We just got back this week from our daughter’s wedding in Australia having flown AA PEY on the 787-9. The cabin is small and quiet, with only three rows and there are bathrooms at the front that are shared with biz which was a nice bonus. On the way over economy passengers were not allowed to use those bathrooms. On the way back it was a free for all which did take away from the quietness of the cabin. The seats were very comfortable although only the bulkhead row has full foot rest (same as CX - NZ had full footrests in all PEY rows on the 777) but I have a small inflatable foot rest and was able to get some decent sleep both ways. Recline is good even though everything I read before said it was terrible. We prefer the last row of PEY and I had read that the seats had limited recline but I didn’t find that to be the case. My mother in law and niece were directly in front of us and had same recline. IFE was great. Air show underwhelming. Amenity kit was quite nice in a small Cole Haan leather pouch. The food and service though, just didn’t come close to either CX or NZ. Just no comparison at all. The flight home had somewhat more attentive flight attendants than the way over (who were rarely seen) and we just had so much lousy service from AA from the time since booking to throughout the journey ( an involuntary change of flight with shortened connection time resulting in two missed connections for son and daughter in law beginning at LAX on the way home and an outrageously awful customer service desk agent when trying to get reassigned) that it would have to be all about price to get me to choose them again.

 

Thank you for the detailed comparisons between different airlines' premium economy products. These are hard to come by, so it's really useful to have this from someone who's tried them.

 

I want to thank you as well. This is the information I have been looking for.

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I personally have never seen a US carrier claim to have PE other than AA, who actually does have PE now. It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

 

Delta markets E+ as premium economy and that’s how it shows up in matrix and with OTAs. While on their own site they distinguish between comfort plus and PS, if you buy your tickets anywhere else, it will show as a PE product.

 

I would imagine this annoys the crap out of AA which undoubtedly hates seeing its true PE product undercut by delta by hundreds of dollars on Orbitz, etc. I would imagine Delta is going to get some blowback as customers fly American and then buy delta’s supposed PE only to learn they are jammed in a coach seat. Either that or AA will start selling MCE as a PE product since they copy Delta in everything anyway.

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Delta markets E+ as premium economy and that’s how it shows up in matrix and with OTAs. While on their own site they distinguish between comfort plus and PS, if you buy your tickets anywhere else, it will show as a PE product.

 

 

Where or how, exactly, have you seen Delta themselves market Comfort+ as premium economy?

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I was in a new A350-900 Delta Premium Select R/T Detroit to Amsterdam last week. It is definitely different and a step up from Delta Comfort +.

On that flight, Comfort+ was not offered.

It is confusing because Delta calls their Comfot + a “ Premium” experience.

You need a Rosetta Stone to figure out this stuff.

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Where or how, exactly, have you seen Delta themselves market Comfort+ as premium economy?

 

Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket. Delta is obviously proud of C+ and unlike AA or UA they give it their own fare class and I can understand why they don’t want it called economy or main cabin on OTAs because then it would appear $10 to $150 more than its competition for a marginally better product. But flagging it “premium” to avoid that problem is highly misleading and borderline unethical, especially now that they have a true PE product.

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Where or how, exactly, have you seen Delta themselves market Comfort+ as premium economy?
It is confusing because Delta calls their Comfot + a “ Premium” experience.
Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket.
I did a quick Google search on delta.com, which returned a number of pages that described Comfort+ as a premium experience (or in similar terms). But on a quick glance, it looked like all of these pre-dated the announcement of Premium Select. The only trace that I could immediately find on current pages was that the page title of the Comfort+ description page contains the word "premium", but the word does not appear in the body of the page.

 

So what I wonder is whether the marketing language was deliberately changed by DL when Premium Select was introduced.

 

Having decided to sell Comfort+ as a distinct fare type above normal economy fares does leave DL in a bit of a bind so far as online sources are concerned. In a sense, DL's approach to Comfort+ means that it's trying to sell five cabin types on systems which are only set up for four cabin descriptions (first, business, PE and economy). When not-invented-here syndrome was still rampant on the big online sites, airlines which sold true premium economy had to make do with marking their PE fares as "economy" and relying on marketing to identify premium economy fares. But I suspect that regulatory action would be needed to make DL sell its normal-economy-with-extra-legroom product as "economy".

 

And hence we will have to continue to warn that some airlines sell a product which is designed to sound like premium economy, but is actually just normal-economy-with-extra-legroom rather than true premium economy.

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Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket. Delta is obviously proud of C+ and unlike AA or UA they give it their own fare class and I can understand why they don’t want it called economy or main cabin on OTAs because then it would appear $10 to $150 more than its competition for a marginally better product. But flagging it “premium” to avoid that problem is highly misleading and borderline unethical, especially now that they have a true PE product.

 

Does Delta flag it as premium specifially to get it lumped in with other true PE products and therefore intentionally mislead people on such websites, or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy? In which case the airline must choose one category or another, neither of which truly fit.

I think the fact that Delta is very clear on its own website speaks volumes about how they prefer to market it.

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Does Delta flag it as premium specifially to get it lumped in with other true PE products and therefore intentionally mislead people on such websites, or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy? In which case the airline must choose one category or another, neither of which truly fit.

I think the fact that Delta is very clear on its own website speaks volumes about how they prefer to market it.

 

They could chose to call it economy (or main cabin for some overseas OTAs). They choose to call it premium.

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I did a quick Google search on delta.com, which returned a number of pages that described Comfort+ as a premium experience (or in similar terms). But on a quick glance, it looked like all of these pre-dated the announcement of Premium Select. The only trace that I could immediately find on current pages was that the page title of the Comfort+ description page contains the word "premium", but the word does not appear in the body of the page.

 

So what I wonder is whether the marketing language was deliberately changed by DL when Premium Select was introduced.

 

Having decided to sell Comfort+ as a distinct fare type above normal economy fares does leave DL in a bit of a bind so far as online sources are concerned. In a sense, DL's approach to Comfort+ means that it's trying to sell five cabin types on systems which are only set up for four cabin descriptions (first, business, PE and economy). When not-invented-here syndrome was still rampant on the big online sites, airlines which sold true premium economy had to make do with marking their PE fares as "economy" and relying on marketing to identify premium economy fares. But I suspect that regulatory action would be needed to make DL sell its normal-economy-with-extra-legroom product as "economy".

 

And hence we will have to continue to warn that some airlines sell a product which is designed to sound like premium economy, but is actually just normal-economy-with-extra-legroom rather than true premium economy.

 

Yeah, I doubt any regulation is in the offing. I think either the market will correct it or not. Delta may have trouble selling PS if some customers get burned with non PS “premium”. Probably more likely that UA and AA will start selling E+ and MCE as separate products since they follow delta in everything anyway.

 

Or maybe OTAs will adjust. We do need a fifth category for these products. If foreign carriers get in on the act it will be very difficult for consumers. The delta (pun intended, haha) between regular economy and c+ is insignificant compared to the delta between c+ and premium economy.

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... or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy?
It's this.

 

As I said, it's the same position as when there was a new cabin type between economy and business, and websites didn't have a category for it. PE fares had to be listed as "economy".

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They could chose to call it economy (or main cabin for some overseas OTAs). They choose to call it premium.

 

Yes.... because these 3rd party sites have no mechanism by which Delta, or others with similar "plus" products, can accurately list them. So the airline has to choose one or another inaccurate categories. That's not exactly the same as saying"hey let's fool everyone and tell them this plus product is a PE product." They are forced into choosing one or another inaccurate categories, and choosing either one potentially bites them in the a88.

 

As with all things, it's buyer beware. The savvy consume will spend 5 minutes doing independent and easy research to ensure they know what they are actually getting. When I booked AF PE for the first time every this past fall, I made no assumptions as to exactly what I would or wouldn't be getting. I'd heard plenty about it hear and on several frequent flyer forums in which I participate, including 3 that are strictly Delta-oriented (and thus include quite a bit of info about their Sky Team partners with whom they partner). But I STILL went to the AF website and read the detailed description of AF PE before hitting the purchase button.

Unfortunately, we know all too well that a lot of consumers aren't as savvy as they should be, and prefer to make assumptions....which often result in disappointment.

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  • 7 months later...

Just a quick follow up — Delta finally relented and fixed this on transpacific and transatlantic routes.  It seems they were undermining customer expectations on joint venture partners’ legitimate premium economy products.

 

https://pro.delta.com/content/agency/us/en/news/news-archive/2018/november-2018/delta-comfort--switches-from-premium-economy-to-economy-shelf-fo.html

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:57 AM, Globaliser said:

Interesting, thanks.

 

Does DL operate Premium Select to South America? If so, I wonder what justification it has for keeping Comfort+ in the premium economy category.

 

Not sure if they have them.  I guess their partners aren’t complaining?

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On 12/1/2018 at 11:57 AM, Globaliser said:

Interesting, thanks.

 

Does DL operate Premium Select to South America? If so, I wonder what justification it has for keeping Comfort+ in the premium economy category.

 

To my knowledge, DL does not currently offer any flights to S. America with Premium Select.  Mostly it is available on selected flights to Asia, and a limited few to Europe.

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22 hours ago, Regguy said:

 

Not sure if they have them.  I guess their partners aren’t complaining?

 

42 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

 

To my knowledge, DL does not currently offer any flights to S. America with Premium Select.  Mostly it is available on selected flights to Asia, and a limited few to Europe.

 

Thanks - then it sounds more like a case of continuing to hoodwink passengers going to South America!

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