Cruise staff opinions on tipping??

You are correct that the US has not ratified the MLC, but this is another case of the USCG not wanting lesser standards to be written into US law, as is required when a nation ratifies an IMO convention. Most US flag ships, however, have voluntarily complied with MLC, and received certificates of compliance through class, in order to remove any possible problems with inspections in port states that have ratified the convention, as happened when the US was laggard in ratifying the STCW.

Having read the entire thread, I can provide some additional information, having spent 40 years at sea, mostly Ro/Pax, but with the initial 7 yrs working on UK flag passenger ships. My experience is limited to a couple of cruise lines, who I worked for, our son worked for and we cruised with until 2015 - P&O & Princess.

 

 

 

I will start by responding to some of the individual posts

 

- #6 Stated some crew never see tips. We have met many, many crew that keep returning to the same company. If those in the tip pool were being stiffed by the company, I can't see them returning to the same company. The composition of the tip pool is a closely guarded secret, even our son, as a senior Deck Officer, was not privy to that info. Many are not included, which I know includes - Deck dept, engineering dept, security, spa, shoppies, cruise staff. Singers/Dancers? I certainly don't believe cruise lines are witholding funds, but do question the % given to the Maitre'D, as opposed to the crew that provide the service.

 

 

 

- #7 Complained about low wages. Salaries/wages are supply & demand. When I started as 3rd Officer in 1978, my salary was the minimum required by UK shipping, as most officers wanted cruise ships. Cargo ships paid 10% more and tankers 30% more, however I still made more money than most 21 yr olds at the time and my benefits were extensive. Standards have reduced significantly, as our son received a N/American contract, receiving cash on board every month. No benefits or vacation were provided. He later received a UK contact with the same company receiving a significant increase and benefits. Therefore, if we have a complaint over wages, I suggest rather than being concerned about low wages, I suggest the concern should be inequality for the same job.

 

 

 

The service crews, while they receive comparatively low remuneration compared to N/American & EU standards, they are frequently very well off in their own countries. Hence the reason they keep returning.

 

 

 

- #11 - An excellent summation of MLC 2006 and impact on cruise ship staff, by a fellow mariner. MLC 2006 was ratified in 2013 when the required 30 countries ratified the convention & incorporated the standards into their Flag State regulations. At present I believe over 80 countries accounting for >90% of tonnage have ratified the agreement. Unfortunately, countries that have not ratified the convention may not have implemented the standards. Fortunately countries that have ratified, can impose the standards on ships that visit their ports. I do not believe the U.S. has ratified MLC 2006.

 

 

 

- #39 - Australia cruise fares include DSC - this has been our experience with cruises based from Australia

 

 

 

- #42 - Not sure I would agree that a 6 to 9 month contract is relatively short. Yes, many years ago we had 30 month foreign service contracts, but having completed one 9-month trip as a cadet, it was a long time away from home working/studying at least 12 yrs per day, every day (remember seafarers don't get weekends)

 

 

 

- #43 - Do seafarers get free room & board. In most cases the answer is yes - the spa employees on Princess being the only exception that I am aware of. However, most crew must maintain a residence ashore and also have additional costs keeping in touch with family & friends.

 

 

 

Personally, I have great difficulty with the cruise line's DSC, as I believe tipping is personal and is provided after the fact, recognising service above and beyond. However, that is no longer the custom on cruises, so if I wish to embark on a cruise, I put my personal thoughts aside and accept the DSC, unless the cruise has gratuities included.

 

 

 

The percentage for front line staff (DR waiters - fixed seating & Cabin Stewards) are based on the number of pax they look after. On our last Princess Cruise, our cabin steward had 4 more cabins than the steward in the next section. Consequently he received more from the DSC pool. As a pax, if you deleted or reduced the DSC your cabin steward's percentage dropped. On our last cruise they also mentioned that the DSC pool is now spread across the company's entire fleet and not by individual ship.

 

 

 

Provided you do not adjust the DSC, my understanding is that any additional cash provided to a crew member can be retained by that crew member. However, I have never seen it in writing and as previously mentioned the DSC is a closely guarded secret.

 

 

 

In response to the OP question, would I pre-pay. Personally - No, but again this is personal preference, as the crew get no benefit to pre-paying. However, the cruise line has your money for a longer period before disbursing to the crew.

Thanks for sharing all that information. I will definitely consider your recommendation of lobbying for equal pay and benefits for like jobs.

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Thanks for sharing all that information. I will definitely consider your recommendation of lobbying for equal pay and benefits for like jobs.

 

 

Maybe, at the same time, start lobbying for equality of terms and conditions, as well as prices for passengers from all parts of the world !!!!

I suspect that most crew workers (at least the ones in the tipping pool) are kept busy to the point that any free time after their shifts are spent talking with family members (skyping or whatever means via computer that they can do), relaxing, sleeping. But not going on line to post on Cruise Critic or any other forum.

The website the OP has mentioned is known for being run by an ambulance chasing type of lawyer, only one devoted to suing cruise lines. As someone suggested, a website to either ignore or take with a grain of salt and just view for the sake of entertainment. There's another website that lists various "incidents" at sea (one of the cruises we were on got mentioned because some kid fell off the gangway into the water while we were docked in Ensenada -- the toddler did get saved, but the mother should have been more careful).

We started cruising before the auto-grats were instituted, and spent some time on the last day of those cruises stuffing tip envelopes with cash. The auto-grats made things easier on us as we left them in place, and then if the crew members gave excellent service (which is much of the time), we'll tip extra in cash on top of the auto-grats, and even fill out a "consummate host" card for these crew members.

I My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash?

I want to address the way you worded your question because there is a HUGE misconception of "prepaying." By default there will be AUTO-gratutities, unless the cruiser asks for them to be removed. The auto-gratuities can be pre-paid but this is for the cruisers budgeting style only (otherwise is billed at the end of the cruise) and either choice is not better or worse for tipping the crew.

If the question is "do the staff prefer auto or cash tips?"... I don't have insight on this except to assume that they prefer which ever is more $$ :)

I

 

If the question is "do the staff prefer auto or cash tips?"... I don't have insight on this except to assume that they prefer which ever is more $$ :)

I am not sure if you understand how cash tips work. If you remove auto tips and pay them cash, they do not get to keep the cash that you give them. The must turn the cash into the tip pool and they get their regular share of the tip pool. This means that if you cash tip them less than the auto tip amount, they get less instead of more cash in the end.

Now if you leave the auto tip on and then give them some extra money, they do get to keep all the extra money.

Hope this helps.

DON

I am not sure if you understand how cash tips work. If you remove auto tips and pay them cash, they do not get to keep the cash that you give them. The must turn the cash into the tip pool and they get their regular share of the tip pool. This means that if you cash tip them less than the auto tip amount, they get less instead of more cash in the end.

 

Now if you leave the auto tip on and then give them some extra money, they do get to keep all the extra money.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DON

I understand how tipping works.

The original poster asked "does crew prefer pre-paid or cash tips" and I wanted to clear up that you don't need to pre-pay to avoid cash tipping; you can let them auto-grat you.

My other point was that if you remove auto-gratuities but tip more than that in cash, that would be the crew's preference. And also, whether the cruise line takes a cut of it auto gratuities, isn't disclosed, so that's why I said I can't speak for the crew [if you were to tip the same amount].

I want to address the way you worded your question because there is a HUGE misconception of "prepaying." By default there will be AUTO-gratutities, unless the cruiser asks for them to be removed. The auto-gratuities can be pre-paid but this is for the cruisers budgeting style only (otherwise is billed at the end of the cruise) and either choice is not better or worse for tipping the crew.

 

If the question is "do the staff prefer auto or cash tips?"... I don't have insight on this except to assume that they prefer which ever is more $$ :)

I am learning all the differences! When I said prepaying, I meant the auto gratuity option in general.

OP, don’t be scared off. I don’t think anyone has been critical of you. Generally this topic just turn into name calling, which hasn’t happened yet.

 

I’ve never worked on a cruise ship so can’t speak to what the staff wants. I used to be a server though. We did a mandatory gratuity on large parties. If I could have done that on every table I would have. Yes, on some tables I would have made less but it would have been heavily outweighed by making more on tables that didn’t tip or tipped very low. I also would have taken a higher hourly wage with no tips, which sounds like how the service charge may be distributed on some lines. But relying on voluntary tipping for a majority of your income is a frustrating way to be paid.

 

I do think that most people who remove the gratuities to ‘tip in cash’ don’t tip or tip less than the auto gratuity. Not saying the OP would do that, but I would guess that the crew would prefer the auto gratuities so we always leave them in place.

 

 

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I agree with this 100%!

Having read the entire thread, I can provide some additional information, having spent 40 years at sea, mostly Ro/Pax, but with the initial 7 yrs working on UK flag passenger ships. My experience is limited to a couple of cruise lines, who I worked for, our son worked for and we cruised with until 2015 - P&O & Princess.

 

I will start by responding to some of the individual posts

- #6 Stated some crew never see tips. We have met many, many crew that keep returning to the same company. If those in the tip pool were being stiffed by the company, I can't see them returning to the same company. The composition of the tip pool is a closely guarded secret, even our son, as a senior Deck Officer, was not privy to that info. Many are not included, which I know includes - Deck dept, engineering dept, security, spa, shoppies, cruise staff. Singers/Dancers? I certainly don't believe cruise lines are witholding funds, but do question the % given to the Maitre'D, as opposed to the crew that provide the service.

 

- #7 Complained about low wages. Salaries/wages are supply & demand. When I started as 3rd Officer in 1978, my salary was the minimum required by UK shipping, as most officers wanted cruise ships. Cargo ships paid 10% more and tankers 30% more, however I still made more money than most 21 yr olds at the time and my benefits were extensive. Standards have reduced significantly, as our son received a N/American contract, receiving cash on board every month. No benefits or vacation were provided. He later received a UK contact with the same company receiving a significant increase and benefits. Therefore, if we have a complaint over wages, I suggest rather than being concerned about low wages, I suggest the concern should be inequality for the same job.

 

The service crews, while they receive comparatively low remuneration compared to N/American & EU standards, they are frequently very well off in their own countries. Hence the reason they keep returning.

 

- #11 - An excellent summation of MLC 2006 and impact on cruise ship staff, by a fellow mariner. MLC 2006 was ratified in 2013 when the required 30 countries ratified the convention & incorporated the standards into their Flag State regulations. At present I believe over 80 countries accounting for >90% of tonnage have ratified the agreement. Unfortunately, countries that have not ratified the convention may not have implemented the standards. Fortunately countries that have ratified, can impose the standards on ships that visit their ports. I do not believe the U.S. has ratified MLC 2006.

 

- #39 - Australia cruise fares include DSC - this has been our experience with cruises based from Australia

 

- #42 - Not sure I would agree that a 6 to 9 month contract is relatively short. Yes, many years ago we had 30 month foreign service contracts, but having completed one 9-month trip as a cadet, it was a long time away from home working/studying at least 12 yrs per day, every day (remember seafarers don't get weekends)

 

- #43 - Do seafarers get free room & board. In most cases the answer is yes - the spa employees on Princess being the only exception that I am aware of. However, most crew must maintain a residence ashore and also have additional costs keeping in touch with family & friends.

 

Personally, I have great difficulty with the cruise line's DSC, as I believe tipping is personal and is provided after the fact, recognising service above and beyond. However, that is no longer the custom on cruises, so if I wish to embark on a cruise, I put my personal thoughts aside and accept the DSC, unless the cruise has gratuities included.

 

The percentage for front line staff (DR waiters - fixed seating & Cabin Stewards) are based on the number of pax they look after. On our last Princess Cruise, our cabin steward had 4 more cabins than the steward in the next section. Consequently he received more from the DSC pool. As a pax, if you deleted or reduced the DSC your cabin steward's percentage dropped. On our last cruise they also mentioned that the DSC pool is now spread across the company's entire fleet and not by individual ship.

 

Provided you do not adjust the DSC, my understanding is that any additional cash provided to a crew member can be retained by that crew member. However, I have never seen it in writing and as previously mentioned the DSC is a closely guarded secret.

 

In response to the OP question, would I pre-pay. Personally - No, but again this is personal preference, as the crew get no benefit to pre-paying. However, the cruise line has your money for a longer period before disbursing to the crew.

Thank you so much!

I suspect that most crew workers (at least the ones in the tipping pool) are kept busy to the point that any free time after their shifts are spent talking with family members (skyping or whatever means via computer that they can do)' date=' relaxing, sleeping. But not going on line to post on Cruise Critic or any other forum.

 

The website the OP has mentioned is known for being run by an ambulance chasing type of lawyer, only one devoted to suing cruise lines. As someone suggested, a website to either ignore or take with a grain of salt and just view for the sake of entertainment. There's another website that lists various "incidents" at sea (one of the cruises we were on got mentioned because some kid fell off the gangway into the water while we were docked in Ensenada -- the toddler did get saved, but the mother should have been more careful).

 

We started cruising before the auto-grats were instituted, and spent some time on the last day of those cruises stuffing tip envelopes with cash. The auto-grats made things easier on us as we left them in place, and then if the crew members gave excellent service (which is much of the time), we'll tip extra in cash on top of the auto-grats, and even fill out a "consummate host" card for these crew members.[/quote']

 

I just thought, in asking, that there might be someone who had some inside information from the staff level... I was not advocating this particular lawyer in any way. I began to sense there were issues with cruise tipping, so I went to google. His website comes up very early in the search. And while I have no idea what he does, or how ethical he is, it does appear that he speaks some truth as to the tipping. It is a more complex system than we are used to in the US, and it does appear the cruise line benefits in using the tips to help pay for wages, although I am not 100% sure of this. Researching further, I have found some forums that slant away from auto gratuities, this one seems to support them. I do see how it makes the cruise less stressful! I appreciate all of the information people have provided.

I am not sure if you understand how cash tips work. If you remove auto tips and pay them cash, they do not get to keep the cash that you give them. The must turn the cash into the tip pool and they get their regular share of the tip pool. This means that if you cash tip them less than the auto tip amount, they get less instead of more cash in the end.

 

Now if you leave the auto tip on and then give them some extra money, they do get to keep all the extra money.

 

Hope this helps.

 

DON

How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

r

 

I am learning all the differences! When I said prepaying, I meant the auto gratuity option in general.

I wasn't sure, so wanted to clarity. I see the question "how does the crew know that I prepaid when I don't tip cash" (they don't, but they don't expect tipping-as-you-go because of the automatic gratuities) all the time, so I always jump in to clarify.

I just thought, in asking, that there might be someone who had some inside information from the staff level... I was not advocating this particular lawyer in any way. I began to sense there were issues with cruise tipping, so I went to google. His website comes up very early in the search. And while I have no idea what he does, or how ethical he is, it does appear that he speaks some truth as to the tipping. It is a more complex system than we are used to in the US, and it does appear the cruise line benefits in using the tips to help pay for wages, although I am not 100% sure of this. Researching further, I have found some forums that slant away from auto gratuities, this one seems to support them. I do see how it makes the cruise less stressful! I appreciate all of the information people have provided.

And of course the cruise line is a lot more complicated, the number of people who serve you on a cruise is multiples more than what serves you in a restaurant. Much easier to see DSC each day then a line for steward, assistant steward, waiter, assistant waiter, head waiter, laundry, etc etc. Just show me one line for everything.

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How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

On Carnival, employees keep all tips provided in cash (confirmed by John Heald); however, when auto-gratuities are removed, it is noted and when it happens, it becomes part of those employee's performance reviews. This hurts then with negotiating for better ships, days off, etc.

How on earth would they enforce this?

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

One factor that I am sure that the crew member might think about is that if they get caught pocketing cash tips that they are supposed to turn in - at best they would get the worse shifts and jobs available in addition to having a black mark on their record and at worse they would be fired.

DON

One factor that I am sure that the crew member might think about is that if they get caught pocketing cash tips that they are supposed to turn in - at best they would get the worse shifts and jobs available in addition to having a black mark on their record and at worse they would be fired.

 

DON

I'm in favor of all tipping threads on cruise critic be started with Chengpk's note on wages: $617/mo for a 40 hr work week or a 176 hr month.

That works out to about $3.50/hr. Nuf said?

This lawyer write lots of articles on the subject. I have no idea as to his reputation and am not promoting him. It is the comment section comments that have me questioning what the right thing to do is...

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/05/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/loyal-to-royal-expect-to-pay-higher-gratuities-and-the-moneys-not-for-the-crew/

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2018/03/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/ncl-raises-gratuities-again-the-greedy-gets-greedier/

He writes his own comments.

How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

Within minutes of signing to remove or reduce the DSC, the supervisors of the cabin steward and dinner stewards (traditional seating) will be advised. The actual employees will definitely know that day and probably only a few minutes later than their supervisor.

How on earth would they enforce this? I would think cash tips would be pocketed regardless, especially since no one would know until after the cruise if you removed the auto gratuities. Right?

The crew live with one another. It would be impossible for them to squirrel away large amounts of cash. Like the rest of us, we know which of our co-workers are upright and which are untrustworthy. Your reputation on ship as a crew member will follow you so they are mindful.

The crew who work at Guest Services aren't bound by confidentiality so they share who cancelled or got a refund on the tips and what excuse they used.

I'm in favor of all tipping threads on cruise critic be started with Chengpk's note on wages: $617/mo for a 40 hr work week or a 176 hr month.

 

That works out to about $3.50/hr. Nuf said?

While that is extremely low for the cost of living in North America and most of Europe, it is actually a substantial wage for many crew members, when compared to the cost of living in the home countries.

I worked on cruise ships before the days of multi-national crews, as our crew compliment was UK Officers, with most of the crew from Goa, or other parts of India. We had at least one Seaman on the Bridge, who we chatted to extensively, especially on sea days. While they made a fraction of my salary, I was surprised how many described having a fairly affluent lifestyle, living in huge homes, with extended family. While their salary was low compared to us, it was about the equivalent of professional people in their home country. Most of them were extremely happy, returning to the same company many times, as they provided a high standard of home and education for their family. I note the Seamen most likely take home less than the service crew in the tip pool.

The shipboard employees, who make the least compared to home country's cost of living are not in the tip pool. While I am not up to date on current salaries, these are examples from 5 to 8 yrs ago, on a main stream Line:

- 3rd Officer (1 stripe Bridge Officer) $5,500 US per month, which was a reasonable salary for a 21 yr old

- Shore ex Manager (2.5 stripe purser) $3,500 US per month. Not a significant salary for someone who earns the cruise ship up to $500K each week

- Jnr A/Cruise Director $1,000 US per month

- Kids hostess < $1,000 US per month

- Steiners (Spa employees) no base salary, only commission and from their commission they had to pay the cruise line $35 per day room & board.

They only received salary when aboard and came from Metro Vancouver, Manchester UK or Aukland NZ, all areas with high cost of living. All work 10 to 12 hrs per day, 7 days every week.