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Cruise staff opinions on tipping??


Oldlady chloe
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I have read many forums and blogs on cruise gratuities. I understand the pros/cons and why people do what they do. I am not looking to stiff the workers. My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash? I am concerned by posts by proclaimed cruise employees that say the cruise lines keep the gratuities and that they don’t actually change the wages of the staff. Does anyone have insight about this?

Edited by Oldlady chloe
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I have read many forums and blogs on cruise gratuities. I understand the pros/cons and why people do what they do. I am not looking to stiff the workers. My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash? I am concerned by posts by proclaimed cruise employees that say the cruise lines keep the gratuities and that they don’t actually change the wages of the staff. Does anyone have insight about this?

 

I have never seen posts by cruise employees saying that. Was this on CC?

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I have never seen posts by cruise employees saying that. Was this on CC?
,

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

 

Here’s one example. Read the comments after the article. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked a crew member what they thought about it...

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,

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

 

Here’s one example. Read the comments after the article. I was just curious if anyone had ever asked a crew member what they thought about it...

 

John Walker is a lawyer who specializes in suing cruise lines. In other words, he makes most other lawyers look like outstanding citizens.

 

DON

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John Walker is a lawyer who specializes in suing cruise lines. In other words, he makes most other lawyers look like outstanding citizens.

 

DON

 

I was more focused on the comment section where multiple people stated they worked on the cruise ships and never saw the tips

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The low wages for the crew is very frustrating to me. I have started writing in comments post cruise about how I feel, but I’m not sure it changes anything in the corporations mind. I spoke with a waiter on celebrity 10 years ago and he explained that tips were his only wage. Since then I’ve tried to give extra whenever possible, but What I’d rather see is a decent wage for all employees, I’d rather see gratuity be rolled into the cost of the cruise like U.K., and then tip extra as deserving. But that’s just my preference, not the current reality.

 

 

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I call BS on that.

 

1) Every thing I had seen says they are paid a wage, plus tips.

 

2) If things were that bad, why would he have worked at least 10 contracts?????

 

Sounds like he had a spiel, like the "homeless" asking for money.

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I call BS on that.

 

1) Every thing I had seen says they are paid a wage, plus tips.

 

2) If things were that bad, why would he have worked at least 10 contracts?????

 

Sounds like he had a spiel, like the "homeless" asking for money.

 

 

 

To clarify, this was a beverage waiter and 10 years ago.. I was very young and had no money to drink, let alone tip.. so I’m not sure what the point of telling a story would be. We hung when it was slow and chatted, not a lot of young passengers on celebrity at the time, so we ended up making friends with a lot of the crew.

 

 

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Edited by CaptnG
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Bar waiters are on a different contract from restaurant and cabin staff. As I understand it, bar waiters are on a contract that is far more based on tips. Room stewards and restaurant staff get a small salary plus tips.

 

I was going to go into a one time, long winded explanation about DSC (I don't call it gratuity or tips, since it isn't, regardless of what the cruise line says), but decided on just a few facts. Bruce is correct, bar waiters are not in the DSC pool, they are paid the gratuity placed on each bar tab.

 

Housekeeping, waitstaff, and some back of house functions (galley, laundry, depends on the individual line) are part of the DSC pool.

 

Things have changed since 10 years ago. When the Manila Labor Convention of 2006 came into force in 2013, much about the conditions of cruise ship workers changed. Before this, those in the DSC pool relied on the DSC for 90% of their compensation, with no guarantee of a minimum wage.

 

Since MLC, there is a minimum monthly wage for all seafarers worldwide of $617/month, for a 40 hour work week. All work over 40 hours per week must be paid at 125% of the minimum wage. Now, do crew in the DSC pool actually see an hourly wage and overtime? No. The cruise lines use a complex calculation to figure out how much this minimum wage and the required overtime hours comes out to in total dollars. They then break this down into a base monthly salary and an "incentive package" based on the DSC from the passengers. This is clearly stated in their employment contract, along with the clear statement that if passengers remove or reduce the automatic DSC, their compensation can be reduced as well. Now, that seems to be pretty similar to what they were getting before MLC, but the big change is that minimum wage. The base salaries tend to be below the monthly minimum, so if all the DSC were removed, the crew would not be making the minimum wage. MLC requires the cruise line, in that case, to step up and make good the balance, up to the minimum monthly. I did some figures before about the wages based on MLC, and entry level DSC crew make about $1100-$1300/month, but reductions in DSC can drive that down to the $617 figure. So, where DSC made up about 90% of their compensation before MLC, it now drops to about 50%.

 

Does this mean the cruise line is keeping the DSC, or any part of it? No. The portion of the wage actually paid from the DSC collected from the passengers is still 90% of their compensation, but if the passengers remove enough of it, the cruise line has to make up the difference.

 

And remember, even if you remove the auto DSC, and pay an exorbitant amount in cash, the mere fact that you removed the DSC is noted in the weekly purser's report, and this raises a red flag with Housekeeping and Food & Beverage to question the staff involved with your cabin and table service as to why the DSC was removed. This is the whole reason the cruise lines use the DSC, to promote "self policing" team mentality (one crew messes up, we all suffer from reduced wage), and to shift the blame for reduced wage from the cruise line to the passenger.

 

Sorry, got longer than I wanted.

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I was going to go into a one time, long winded explanation about DSC (I don't call it gratuity or tips, since it isn't, regardless of what the cruise line says), but decided on just a few facts. Bruce is correct, bar waiters are not in the DSC pool, they are paid the gratuity placed on each bar tab.

 

Housekeeping, waitstaff, and some back of house functions (galley, laundry, depends on the individual line) are part of the DSC pool.

 

Things have changed since 10 years ago. When the Manila Labor Convention of 2006 came into force in 2013, much about the conditions of cruise ship workers changed. Before this, those in the DSC pool relied on the DSC for 90% of their compensation, with no guarantee of a minimum wage.

 

Since MLC, there is a minimum monthly wage for all seafarers worldwide of $617/month, for a 40 hour work week. All work over 40 hours per week must be paid at 125% of the minimum wage. Now, do crew in the DSC pool actually see an hourly wage and overtime? No. The cruise lines use a complex calculation to figure out how much this minimum wage and the required overtime hours comes out to in total dollars. They then break this down into a base monthly salary and an "incentive package" based on the DSC from the passengers. This is clearly stated in their employment contract, along with the clear statement that if passengers remove or reduce the automatic DSC, their compensation can be reduced as well. Now, that seems to be pretty similar to what they were getting before MLC, but the big change is that minimum wage. The base salaries tend to be below the monthly minimum, so if all the DSC were removed, the crew would not be making the minimum wage. MLC requires the cruise line, in that case, to step up and make good the balance, up to the minimum monthly. I did some figures before about the wages based on MLC, and entry level DSC crew make about $1100-$1300/month, but reductions in DSC can drive that down to the $617 figure. So, where DSC made up about 90% of their compensation before MLC, it now drops to about 50%.

 

Does this mean the cruise line is keeping the DSC, or any part of it? No. The portion of the wage actually paid from the DSC collected from the passengers is still 90% of their compensation, but if the passengers remove enough of it, the cruise line has to make up the difference.

 

And remember, even if you remove the auto DSC, and pay an exorbitant amount in cash, the mere fact that you removed the DSC is noted in the weekly purser's report, and this raises a red flag with Housekeeping and Food & Beverage to question the staff involved with your cabin and table service as to why the DSC was removed. This is the whole reason the cruise lines use the DSC, to promote "self policing" team mentality (one crew messes up, we all suffer from reduced wage), and to shift the blame for reduced wage from the cruise line to the passenger.

 

Sorry, got longer than I wanted.

 

It's okay, it was all factual, interesting information so we forgive you for being wordy:). The unfortunate thing is that people will read this and their take away will be "okay, cool, the staff still gets paid if I remove the DSC" and they totally miss the fact that the worker's wages will still be reduced, possibly even to half of what they normally make. The system you describe sounds similar to the law here in the US that states that tipped workers must receive at least minimum wage when their tips are added to the reduced minimum wage tipped workers receive.

 

As for the OP's question I think most of them would prefer that we at least keep the auto-tips in place and tip more in cash if we feel it's warranted.

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It's okay, it was all factual, interesting information so we forgive you for being wordy:). The unfortunate thing is that people will read this and their take away will be "okay, cool, the staff still gets paid if I remove the DSC" and they totally miss the fact that the worker's wages will still be reduced, possibly even to half of what they normally make. The system you describe sounds similar to the law here in the US that states that tipped workers must receive at least minimum wage when their tips are added to the reduced minimum wage tipped workers receive.

 

As for the OP's question I think most of them would prefer that we at least keep the auto-tips in place and tip more in cash if we feel it's warranted.

 

Yes, they would prefer to auto DSC remain in place.

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I have read many forums and blogs on cruise gratuities. I understand the pros/cons and why people do what they do. I am not looking to stiff the workers. My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash? I am concerned by posts by proclaimed cruise employees that say the cruise lines keep the gratuities and that they don’t actually change the wages of the staff. Does anyone have insight about this?
It surely depends on cruise line policy, but unfortunately there is no way to know for sure what that is except to sign on to a 9 month contract, yourself. For most of the mainstream cruise lines, there is sufficient evidence to believe that the cruise line imposes an expectation that the standard gratuity will be left on the account, and otherwise requires cash gratuities given to the crew member to be turned in for inclusion in the tipping pool. As Cheng said, above, "This is clearly stated in their employment contract, along with the clear statement that if passengers remove or reduce the automatic DSC, their compensation can be reduced as well." As such, it would be a hassle for the crew member to have to deal with that cash turnover and it would be better to just leave the gratuities on account. However, if you're going to give more than the standard gratuity, the crew members you see and give that money to would be better off getting that extra amount in cash (while their compatriots who you don't see would be worse off if you do that).

 

The low wages for the crew is very frustrating to me. I have started writing in comments post cruise about how I feel, but I’m not sure it changes anything in the corporations mind.
What will change their minds is you and I changing our purchasing behaviors - quitting cruising until they change their business model. Of course, far too few people are willing to do that, so our option is to either get over our frustration about it or live without cruising.
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So, on at least some lines, gratuities given at the end of a cruise to outstanding staff have to be turned in and shared? Doesn't make me less likely to directly tip. Probably affects their appraisals in a positive way but it is disappointing.

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You can bet cash given to your service people will go into their pocket.

 

You know, just like on land, sometimes tips are "shared"...in a restaurant, the tip you leave your waitperson is usually "shared" with the host/hostess who seats you, the bus person who cleans your table, and the bartender, if they make any drink for your table. Same in casinos....any "toke" you give to a dealer is shared with ALL the dealers on that shift.

 

That's just the way it works.

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So, on at least some lines, gratuities given at the end of a cruise to outstanding staff have to be turned in and shared? Doesn't make me less likely to directly tip. Probably affects their appraisals in a positive way but it is disappointing.

 

For the two lines I've sailed on (CCL and NCL) if the passenger kept the daily amount in place and tipped extra the person receiving the extra tip was able to retain it (at least that was my understanding of things).

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I have read many forums and blogs on cruise gratuities. I understand the pros/cons and why people do what they do. I am not looking to stiff the workers. My question is: what would the cruise staff prefer we do? Prepay or cash? I am concerned by posts by proclaimed cruise employees that say the cruise lines keep the gratuities and that they don’t actually change the wages of the staff. Does anyone have insight about this?

 

 

prepay takes the guess work out of it for you and lets you budget for it.

 

otherwise, you get charged every day on your account.

 

 

doing it either of these ways makes it easy and guarantees they get EVERYTHING they are entitled to.

 

but removing gratuities and then paying in cash, they may not. some lines make anything they receive this way to be pooled which means they may not get it all back.

 

as for the bottom line practical matter: I have had a few prefer prepay as it is held in an account for them to draw from as needed and they are not walking around with 600 dollar bills on any given day. some have said they like cash because they want immediate access to their funds when they have shore leave.

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Thank you everyone for your input! Very good information as to how the tips are dispursed. I would just love to hear from actual staff, wouldn’t you? How we are told things work may be different from actual practice. The comments in the article seemed authentic in their tone and basically said we as cruisers were being duped.

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This lawyer write lots of articles on the subject. I have no idea as to his reputation and am not promoting him. It is the comment section comments that have me questioning what the right thing to do is...

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2015/05/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/loyal-to-royal-expect-to-pay-higher-gratuities-and-the-moneys-not-for-the-crew/

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2018/03/articles/worst-cruise-line-in-the-world/ncl-raises-gratuities-again-the-greedy-gets-greedier/

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Just to put my 2 cents in here. I can't speak for other cruiselines, because I haven't researched them all, but Carnival Corporation is traded on the US Stock Exchange and is subject to all of the requirements of the Securities and Exchange Commission and is subject to US law. This means that they are subject to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. For those who are not in the corporate world, this means that they must attest that their system of internal controls is working sufficiently. They are required to have an independent Internal Audit Department to test this system of internal controls. What this means is, the Internal Audit Department will test to ensure that their methods of collecting and dispersing monies collected for gratuities are handled in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations, and in compliance with the employment contracts signed by the staff.

 

This alone should provide comfort that the company is not just "keeping" the gratuities meant for the staff.

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Thank you everyone for your input! Very good information as to how the tips are dispursed. I would just love to hear from actual staff, wouldn’t you? How we are told things work may be different from actual practice. The comments in the article seemed authentic in their tone and basically said we as cruisers were being duped.

 

Chengkp75 used to work on cruise ships and while he didn't work in a department that used tips he was certainly aware of how things worked since he attended meetings where such things were discussed. Yes, there are a lot of people who think passengers are being duped, but look at it this way- the crew knows exactly how much passengers are paying in tips. Do you really think they would tolerate not receiving those tips from the company in one form or another?

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Chengkp75 used to work on cruise ships and while he didn't work in a department that used tips he was certainly aware of how things worked since he attended meetings where such things were discussed. Yes, there are a lot of people who think passengers are being duped, but look at it this way- the crew knows exactly how much passengers are paying in tips. Do you really think they would tolerate not receiving those tips from the company in one form or another?

 

Actually, I think it could be possible (maybe not likely) that the tips are not being disbursed. There is such a power imbalance between ceos and poor third world workers who have families to support.

 

Tipping on cruises is such a controversial topic. It comes up over and over ad nauseum on forums. I think it is because people don’t feel good about the system. Something about it seems fishy.

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One more post and then I'm done with this thread, before it degenerates as all "tipping" threads do.

 

Walker presents no evidence that the cruise lines retain the DSC.

 

No, the DSC money is not distributed directly to the crew, it goes into an account for the ship, and payroll draws on this account to pay the crew. Crew are unhappy with some of the changes to the DSC pool, like including back of house workers in the pool that weren't there before, and withholding specified amounts for crew welfare (parties, excursions).

 

The crew are also complaining because they are getting reduced wages due to so many passengers reducing or removing the DSC, yet the crew think the passengers are still paying it (hence the claims of the company holding back), and the claim that wages are reduced due to complaints is also due to passengers reducing/removing DSC. I have yet to see any documentation, from a crew member or from Walker that cruise lines are withholding DSC from crew.

 

I used to work for NCL, so I know how shipboard compensation and shipboard employment contracts are handled.

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