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Sydney Too Big For Our Berths


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This goes well with the question posed the other day in this forum.

 

From today's Sydney Morning Herald:-

 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/too-big-for-our-berths/2008/12/05/1228257317775.html

 

I'll cut and paste the article below:-

 

Too big for our berths

 

December 6, 2008

 

 

Cruise travel is booming but Sydney may miss out on the tourist dollars, writes Kylie Davis.

 

 

 

AT 91,000 tonnes, 11 passenger decks and 20 feet too tall to fit under the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the Celebrity Millennium cruise liner is an impressive sight. But when she arrives in Sydney Harbour on January 3 and disembarks more than 3000 passengers and crew, her arrival will be even more spectacular: for the first time in modern international cruising, there are no berths available at Sydney Harbour - a legacy of an explosion in the popularity of cruising and a lack of planning by the NSW Government.The harbour, which Governor Phillip once described "in extent and security, superior to any he has ever seen", has two ocean liner ports. The first is a single berth at the Overseas Passenger Terminal at Circular Quay, which is both physically too small for the new breed of ships now entering our ports, and has had its ability to load and unload passengers affected by its redevelopment as a restaurant precinct.

The second port is on the other side of the Harbour Bridge at East Darling Harbour, most recently renamed as Barangaroo by the State Government and earmarked for redevelopment as a commercial and residential precinct.

These berths, however, have their own set of problems. There are 43 new cruise ships being built for the cruising market over the next four years and none of them fit under the Harbour Bridge - making ports west of the bridge increasingly useless.

Carnival Australia, whose ships will make more than 50 port calls to Sydney, expects more than 108,000 passengers to visit Sydney from its liners alone. A further 60,000 passengers will visit the city through international vessels. Each day a ship is in port, at least $1 million is estimated to pour down the gangplank and into the local economy.

Ann Sherry, the chief executive of Carnival Australia, said the Government cannot tell the company when it will have to move, which made planning for an industry that operates up to five years in advance extremely difficult. The former car port at White Bay has been flagged but it is not an option that Carnival is particularly happy with, nor one that helps the superliners.

"Tourism in NSW is already suffering and if action isn't taken soon, the expected boost to the state economy could be squandered through inaction," Ms Sherry said.

"This is our biggest cruise season yet and two-thirds of our passengers will be cruising into Sydney - and into the local economy, contributing more than $50 million to NSW."

 

 

 

 

Brett Dudley, the owner of the travel agency ecruising and vice-chairman of the industry lobby group Cruising Down Under, said the lack of planning is damaging Sydney's reputation.

"Cruising is one of the growth industries of tourism. Look at a couple of years ago, when the QE2 and the Queen Mary came to Sydney - the city came to a standstill. Yet we currently rely on the goodwill of the navy to berth our ships," Mr Dudley said.

After a disastrous experience in Brisbane in February last year when passengers from the super liner Queen Mary II were forced to disembark in pouring rain, Cunard has removed Brisbane as a stopover port.

"The industry is building bigger ships, not smaller ones. Yet our government has no stated plans to improve port facilities," Mr Dudley said.

"The Overseas Passenger Terminal is a nightmare. You can't get coaches into the facility. Sydney is probably one of the best places in the world to come to, but it's not that practical."

Industry observers agree that the best location for a new passenger port is the naval base at Garden Island. An understanding exists where the navy considers requests to use its facilities case by case. In the case of Celebrity Millennium and Rhapsody Of The Seas, the request was refused, although when the Queen Mary II returns in February, it will be allowed to dock at the base.

"The navy needs to give up Garden Island," Mr Dudley said. "It would create a fantastic cruise facility - you can get two ships in there and it's deep water, right near a vibrant district. Cruise lines don't need to have fancy port facilities in terms of restaurants and shopping. They just need a place to pull up and be guaranteed a berth and embark and disembark in a reasonable time frame."

But a spokeswoman for Sydney Ports, which runs the facilities, denied there was any need to expand or improve passenger port facilities. "February is the busiest month and it is only 70 per cent booked," she said.

"On an average basis, the ports are vacant for 80 per cent of the year, so we're currently only using 20 per cent of our capacity. The situation came about because someone from the cruise lines forgot to book a berth in time."

The policy of Sydney Ports was to manage for peak periods rather than build for peak periods, she said.

"We have 120 ship visits a year and two berths, so over the year, there is a lot of times when the terminal is not being used. The largest ships, such as the Queen Mary II, come here only once a year. It would be mad to build a facility specially for her."

 

 

Internationally, the cruising market has doubled since 2000, when there were seven million passengers. There are now 14 million passengers taking cruises around the world. Another 43 ships are being built, and passenger numbers are expected to double again. Sydney, however, will only receive a limited share.

"While we ignore the need � Hong Kong, Singapore and Shanghai are building state-of-the-art port facilities," Mr Dudley said.

"A lot of the international lines would love to base their ships here but we are going to get to a critical point because there is nowhere to base a large ship here."

Sydney is about to experience its biggest cruise season. Carnival Australia will host a record 12 ships from Cunard Line, Princess Cruises, P&O Cruises Australia and P&O Cruises UK, while additional ships will come from international lines Royal Caribbean, Celebrity Cruises, Regent, Holland America Line, NYK Cruises and Silverseas - to name just a few. Figures from the International Cruise Council of Australasia show a record 252,000 Australians took an ocean cruise last year, a 14 per cent leap. The industry has shown double-digit growth for the past three years, making it a highlight in an otherwise lacklustre NSW tourism industry.

In May, Access Economics found the cruise industry's total economic contribution to the country in 2006-07 was $734 million. On present growth rates, the industry is expected to contribute more than $1 billion to the economy by 2010, but the report warns that "the existing standard of infrastructure has the potential to constrain the development of the cruise industry in Australia".

Richard Cranmer, the regional manager of Royal Caribbean International, which operates the Celebrity Millennium and Rhapsody of the Seas, is trying to see the positive side.

"There are many ports even around Europe, and other Australian ports where you cannot berth, so turning around at sea is not unusual," he said.

"But Sydney is a major city with one of the world's most beautiful harbours at its heart - it's disappointing, to say the least, that the facilities have not kept up with the industry."

When a liner has to be moored in the harbour, the company has decided to hire catamarans to bring passengers to shore rather than the usual tenders, to add some glamour to the experience.

"Being near the zoo, passengers will have a totally different view of the city. From the zoo you get to see the whole city skyline and passengers will have the experience of travelling across the harbour," he said of the 12-minute journey to customs at Darling Harbour. "The downside is that you can't just walk on and off."

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An interesting article - with heaps of great input.

 

Mostly, the ships that can't berth at OPT are also those that are to big to travel the world - (too big for the canals). The only new builds that will physically not fit are the RCI monster ships. Apart from an upgrade of the departure facilities at OPT, the harbour will cope. The Naval dock is hardly an ideal berth, due to location away from the city.

 

Ann Sherry is 100% correct with a comment - "This is our biggest cruise season yet". With recession likely to be felt around 1/2 of the globe, I doubt this season will be matched for the next 3 years.

 

Millennium and Rhapsody were not fully booked into berths before setting their itinerary - can't see how that is a Sydney Ports problem. Millennium also failed to book into Melbourne in the New Year, and has now changed the itinerary to include Newcastle, a later date for Melbourne - then dropping Hobart. Millennium will not be visiting next season.

 

Now my cynical side.

Kevin is handing out infrastructure money to keep us out of a potential recession. Eyes have lit up around the country, as these sorts of projects have not been funded for years. There is lobbying occuring in all sorts of circles at the moment. Ms Sherry and Mr Dudley are doing a wonderful job of lobbying for a slice of Kevin's pie.

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For the megaships being built today, berthing is a problem at many ports.

 

I for one don't like berthing at the container ports miles from the cities - when possible, I choose smaller ships which can "park in" closer.

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This goes well with the question posed the other day in this forum.

 

From today's Sydney Morning Herald:-

 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/too-big-for-our-berths/2008/12/05/1228257317775.html

 

I'll cut and paste the article below:-

 

Too big for our berths

 

December 6, 2008

 

 

Cruise travel is booming but Sydney may miss out on the tourist dollars, writes Kylie Davis.

 

 

 

AT 91,000 tonnes, 11 passenger decks and 20 feet too tall to fit under the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the Celebrity Millennium cruise liner is an impressive sight. But when she arrives in Sydney Harbour on January 3 and disembarks more than 3000 passengers and crew, her arrival will be even more spectacular: for the first time in modern international cruising, there are no berths available at Sydney Harbour - a legacy of an explosion in the popularity of cruising and a lack of planning by the NSW Government. "

 

Well, that's very interesting, but the newspaper has its facts wrong!

 

If you look at the Sydney Ports Cruise Schedule web site:

http://www.sydneyports.com.au/port_operations/cruise_schedule

 

You will see that Millennium is due to be berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal from 03 Jan at 07:00 a.m. to 05 Jan at 02:00 a.m.

 

We are booked on the Millennium cruise that embarks on 04 January. Our cruise docs tell us we will indeed be embarking at the Overseas Passenger Terminal, but will be moving to an anchorage during the night of th 4th-5th January. Since departure time from Sydney is 6:00 p.m. on 5th January, tenders will be available to ferry passengers to/from shore on 5th January.

 

Diamond Princess is due to arrive at the Overseas Passenger Terminal on Jan 5th, adn Volendam at Darling Harbour..

 

Rhapsody of the Seas is currently scheduled to berth at the Athol Buoy Anchorage on Feb 10 and 11, when Rotterdam and Europa are both in port.

 

However a later Millennium cruise (departing

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Interesting article.

First off though, I don't think it is practical to expect the navy to have to host every big ship that wants to call in. Nor is it fair to expect the navy to have to relocate, just because it has a good site.

It is hard for me to know exactly where the truth lies, but by the sounds of it, the port facilities are not overused most of the time.

But cruise ships do seem to be getting bigger. If the money ever is there to develop a state of the art port, does it absolutely have to be in the heart of Sydney? Is there anywhere else it could be sited, even eg a 20-30 minute drive out of town?

If luxury buses were laid on at such a site and easily accessible each time a big ship came in, that could work well.

I haven't been cruising but years ago we got the train to Adelaide and the interstate train terminal was a fair way out of the city. That worried me initially.

But at the terminal they announced that there were small tour buses for a very nominal cost, that did the whole city circuit, with commentary. You could hop off at any of the stops and hop on the next one that came along eg an hour later. they actually did the circuit all day and there was no hassle about getting into town, or getting back to the terminal etc

I found it a really great way to see the city in a short time and get a potted history.

Is there anything like that available in Sydney? if not, then there should be.

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Well, that's very interesting, but the newspaper has its facts wrong!

 

If you look at the Sydney Ports Cruise Schedule web site:

http://www.sydneyports.com.au/port_operations/cruise_schedule

 

You will see that Millennium is due to be berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal from 03 Jan at 07:00 a.m. to 05 Jan at 02:00 a.m.

 

We are booked on the Millennium cruise that embarks on 04 January. Our cruise docs tell us we will indeed be embarking at the Overseas Passenger Terminal, but will be moving to an anchorage during the night of th 4th-5th January. Since departure time from Sydney is 6:00 p.m. on 5th January, tenders will be available to ferry passengers to/from shore on 5th January.

 

Diamond Princess is due to arrive at the Overseas Passenger Terminal on Jan 5th, adn Volendam at Darling Harbour..

 

Rhapsody of the Seas is currently scheduled to berth at the Athol Buoy Anchorage on Feb 10 and 11, when Rotterdam and Europa are both in port.

 

However a later Millennium cruise (departing

I guess some of your post disappeared - yes Millennium is affected later in the season when she appears to be in Sydney for several days.

 

For your cruise, Millennium forgot to book a berth in Melbourne and the Port was unable to accept her with Diamond Princess and Volendam in port there. When they changed their plans to make Newcastle their first port on 6th January, they needed to find somewhere to anchor. Newcastle can be reached in only 3 1/2 hours by sea.

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I guess some of your post disappeared - yes Millennium is affected later in the season when she appears to be in Sydney for several days.

 

For your cruise, Millennium forgot to book a berth in Melbourne and the Port was unable to accept her with Diamond Princess and Volendam in port there. When they changed their plans to make Newcastle their first port on 6th January, they needed to find somewhere to anchor. Newcastle can be reached in only 3 1/2 hours by sea.

 

Yes, don't know what happened there!

 

I did say what you said (but it got lost somehow. Perhaps I had a senior moment!) - that a later Millennium cruise (March, I think) is affected and is shown as being moored at the Athol Buoy Mooring.

 

We're looking forward to seeing Newcastle and its environs, so we don't mind the changed plans at all. We're quite happy about being anchored in Sydney harbour too. It's all a holiday.

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Yes, don't know what happened there!

 

I did say what you said (but it got lost somehow. Perhaps I had a senior moment!) - that a later Millennium cruise (March, I think) is affected and is shown as being moored at the Athol Buoy Mooring.

 

We're looking forward to seeing Newcastle and its environs, so we don't mind the changed plans at all. We're quite happy about being anchored in Sydney harbour too. It's all a holiday.

Newcastle is my home town, and if we were not departing on Rhapsody on the same day, I would be as close as I could get to the ship during the day. We will be in Sydney to see your departure though.

 

The Cruise Hunter volunteers will look after you - I hope you have a great time there. www.cruisehunter.com.au

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I don't think it is practical to expect the navy to have to host every big ship that wants to call in. Nor is it fair to expect the navy to have to relocate, just because it has a good site.

 

I don't know what he is like in real life and he obviously has a strong bias as the owner of ecruising that he has let get the better of him, but his statement gives a very poor impression and shows commercial arrogance. Someone else should give up their position - when they are more established and have a greater need - just because he wants it?

 

I would say that the Woolloomooloo wharves would actually have been a much better place - a more convenient location, more readily accessible, great capacity and the wharves themselves had fantastic atmosphere. Unfortunately, that was turned over to developers for commercial gain, taking away the atmosphere and facility at the same time.

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I was just checking the schedules for Sydney and noted Queen Victoria and Arcadia as both being there on 20 Feb. On checking the times however QV sails out at 6.30 pm and Arcadia arrives at 8.30 pm for an overnight.

Wonder whats happens if QV is delayed or late leaving?

Wonder where they will pass each other?

In the harbour,or out at sea?

 

 

 

Queen Victoria 19-Feb-2009 06:00 (Thu) 20-Feb-2009 18:30 (Fri) Overseas Passenger Terminal

 

Arcadia 20-Feb-2009 22:30 (Fri) 21-Feb-2009 23:59 (Sat) Overseas Passenger Terminal

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I was just checking the schedules for Sydney and noted Queen Victoria and Arcadia as both being there on 20 Feb. On checking the times however QV sails out at 6.30 pm and Arcadia arrives at 8.30 pm for an overnight.

Wonder whats happens if QV is delayed or late leaving?

Wonder where they will pass each other?

In the harbour,or out at sea?

 

 

 

Queen Victoria 19-Feb-2009 06:00 (Thu) 20-Feb-2009 18:30 (Fri) Overseas Passenger Terminal

 

Arcadia 20-Feb-2009 22:30 (Fri) 21-Feb-2009 23:59 (Sat) Overseas Passenger Terminal

 

 

The Pacific Dawn also arrives and departs that day, (:( it's the day I come home) I am looking forward to seeing the Queen Victoria docked at the OPT as we swing around the Opera House.

 

Thanks Kiwi Kruzer for letting me know that the Arcadia is there as well!!!! whoo hooo what a day in the Harbour, almost makes it worthwhile to come back on that day - a BIG almost that is:D

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Wonder where they will pass each other?

In the harbour,or out at sea?

 

Queen Victoria 19-Feb-2009 06:00 (Thu) 20-Feb-2009 18:30 (Fri) Overseas Passenger Terminal

 

Arcadia 20-Feb-2009 22:30 (Fri) 21-Feb-2009 23:59 (Sat) Overseas Passenger Terminal

Hi David,

Well, they do not have a 2 Queens moment this coming February. There could be a moment in the harbour nearing sunset.

 

Is my memory correct - QV and Arcadia are sister ships?

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  • 9 years later...

Hi all

 

I thought I would open this thread up again as I can't believe how long this issue has been going on of where to put the visiting cruise ships in Sydney Harbour and it is now 2018 and they still can't decide what to do about the problem.

 

Just see the top of this thread to see when the first comment was made, there is possibly earlier thread than this one and if any one finds one that is earlier than this one on cruise critic let me know because I am curious as to how long the Government has known about this problem and done nothing to fix the issue before it got to this point when we are at breaking point in Sydney Harbour.

 

Sending ships to Port Botany, that's a big mistake because of traffic problems etc. I love cruising and love leaving Sydney Harbour and turning towards the heads to start the cruise and it is even better when you come into Sydney through the heads early morning and the water in the Harbour is so blue and the sky just as blue with the sun just rising in the east, nothing more beautiful and to deny our visiting guests from far lands to the same beauty is a shame and a disgrace.

 

Waiting for your comments

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