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need help from an expert - air flights


CCJack
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We are on a MSC cruise returning to civitavecchia (Rome) on the morning of December 30th, 2018. I booked Lufthansa flights months ago through Kayak - for December 31st departure at 7:00 am out of FCO flying to Detroit via Frankfurt. We plan on spending night at FCO airport since there were no good flight times on the 30th. This is for my family of 6 people so it is a lot of money. Kayak reservation actually went through airfare dot com.. which I really didn't realize until now.

 

So I got an email from airfare yesterday that said our flight information has changed and I need to approve within 7 days. I use the reservation number and log on to Lufthansa, and the flight now shows up at 7:20 am departure on Dec. 30th not Dec 31st (we will still be on the ship just docking likely.)

 

I called airfare and they said my flight has been delayed by 20 minutes 7:00 to 7:20 and I need to approve. I told them that it now says Dec 30th not Dec 31st and it is not a 20 minute change but a 24 hour change. They confirmed the new reservation says Dec 30th. They indicated it was requested by Lufthansa. The point is they didn't realize at first that it was a different day when I was on the phone with them, until I told them.

 

I called Lufthansa. They indicated that our reservation was cancelled and rebooked by airfare dot com. They also confirmed that our original reservation was for December 31st and now we are booked on December 30th - which won't work. Lufthansa said they couldn't help me since it was requested by airfare dot com. I also asked Lufthansa if the flight on Dec 31st is still scheduled and they said it is still operating at 7:30 am. (note the change from 7:00 am)

 

So I called airfare back. they said they cannot make any changes without written instructions by the traveler unless the airline makes the change and that Lufthansa made the cancellation not them, and that Lufthansa called them just to confirm the approval (from me)..

 

My guess is (only a guess) this was a 7:00 to 7:30 am change only , Lufthansa called the agent (airfare) to confirm and somehow dec 30th got entered instead of dec 31st by mistake at that time.

 

Each of these calls has been about 45 minute on hold to get someone to answer.

 

Now, I don't know what to do and I am very frustrated.

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Oh boy!! There's some foul-up somewhere that is entirely not your fault. They have asked you to approve the change. What happens if you don't? Since a change of date is critical and you can't approve, surely you can get a full refund? Then start again.

 

Don't use Kayak. They tend to refer you to some other oddball website and - gee, how did that happen? - the fare you were looking at is no longer available. I much prefer to go straight to the airline's own website. When something does go wrong then you are their customer and they can't divert you somewhere else. Certainly use Kayak for research, or Google flights or any other website to find out what your options are.

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yes there are horrible reviews of this company online. I will give them a day or two to get straightened out, but otherwise maybe consider a fraud report on my credit card - or maybe travel insurance claim? The reports on line really are not good - sounds like maybe a scam or something.

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First off don't approve the change unless it gets you back to the flight you want.

 

Try calling Lufthansa back and tell them, you just got off the phone with the travail agent, the agent says Lufthansa did the change and you would like it moved back. (Ignore your previous conversation with Lufthansa, these agents don't have to interpret the rules the same way or be consistent.)

 

Realistically, your best bet is to get Lufthansa to take over the reservation. The fact the Lufthansa agent you talked to did not do not take over the reservation does not mean the next person you talk to will behave the same way.

 

Regardless of what the rules are, the general behavior of most airlines is once they do a schedule change to your reservation, the airline agent your talking to you can move you onto pretty much any flight they operate that has space in that cabin regardless of the cost of the fare.

 

If that does not work..... To get the travel agent to do anything to correct something like this they will need to call the airline. Try to get them to conference call you into that conversation.

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thanks, this is helpful. the more I research this company - I see many reviews in which the exact same thing happened to other people. So I don't think this was a typo by anyone. It appears this online agent searches for other times, flights, etc. (likely cheaper?) and change your flights without your OK. Then they put you in a never ending back and forth of emails and phone calls, just to stall. The phone calls are not professional, lots of background noise, etc. Many people say the flights may be changed just days before you leave. This would be a disaster.

 

Even if the flight gets changed back, I would be worried they would do it again.

 

One question does "take over the reservation" mean Lufthansa would no longer answer to the travel agent, and the agent would be out of the picture?

 

If I can't get them to take over the reservation, is it possible to request airline to make not changes (once I get it changed back to an acceptable time) without approval from the traveler?

 

The good news is there are a number of flights that would work, just not the 7:20 am on Dec. 30th as we are on the ship. There is a flight on the afternoon of the 30th, as well as our original flight on the 31st and later flights on the 31st.

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Airfare dot com sells consolidator tickets with huge restrictions. And with their own draconian terms and conditions.

 

So, at no time during the entire booking process did you realize that you were not buying a ticket from Kayak (or from Lufthansa), but actually from Airfare?

 

I would suggest you go to the Airfare website and read their various pages of terms and conditions, FAQs, and "about us" - so that you can have a better idea of what you are facing. Sentences such as:

 

Under absolutely no circumstances will the airline refund these highly discounted airline tickets.

 

should give one pause.

 

Good luck. You'll probably encounter much more buck-passing as this goes on.

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thanks, this is helpful. the more I research this company - I see many reviews in which the exact same thing happened to other people. So I don't think this was a typo by anyone. It appears this online agent searches for other times, flights, etc. (likely cheaper?) and change your flights without your OK. Then they put you in a never ending back and forth of emails and phone calls, just to stall. The phone calls are not professional, lots of background noise, etc. Many people say the flights may be changed just days before you leave. This would be a disaster.

 

Even if the flight gets changed back, I would be worried they would do it again.

 

One question does "take over the reservation" mean Lufthansa would no longer answer to the travel agent, and the agent would be out of the picture?

 

If I can't get them to take over the reservation, is it possible to request airline to make not changes (once I get it changed back to an acceptable time) without approval from the traveler?

 

The good news is there are a number of flights that would work, just not the 7:20 am on Dec. 30th as we are on the ship. There is a flight on the afternoon of the 30th, as well as our original flight on the 31st and later flights on the 31st.

 

I am not certain if it locks out the agent or not. My impression from the few times I have had to do something like this is that the travel agent computer system still sees the old information. That is ok, as long as you and the airline computer system agree on what you want to do.

 

Changing from 7:00 to 7:30 may be enough to justify rebook you on the afternoon flight.

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Airfare dot com sells consolidator tickets with huge restrictions. And with their own draconian terms and conditions.

 

So, at no time during the entire booking process did you realize that you were not buying a ticket from Kayak (or from Lufthansa), but actually from Airfare?

 

I would suggest you go to the Airfare website and read their various pages of terms and conditions, FAQs, and "about us" - so that you can have a better idea of what you are facing. Sentences such as:

 

Under absolutely no circumstances will the airline refund these highly discounted airline tickets.

 

should give one pause.

 

Good luck. You'll probably encounter much more buck-passing as this goes on.

 

 

Yes, it looks like a bad situation, however at this point, I am not blaming myself too much. I am not a travel agent or a lawyer but a traveler who had booked several times through Kayak with good results. The fares were not suspiciously low, but in the ball park with other fares. I got an email confirmation from Kayak, airfare, and of course Lufthansa. I called Lufthansa shortly after booking to confirm everything was set and the tickets were valid. I also bought comprehensive travel insurance and used a credit card with fraud protection. I was aware the tickets were non refundable, but that is not the issue. I was just unaware that an online TA would call and move my flights like this to a different day for no reason. Some people report the motive is to make your flights unworkable, so you have to cancel then airfare charges you $350 on top of the airline cancellation. (these were non refundable fares, so I am not paying anyone even more! I will walk away before I do that.)

 

I appreciate the comments on CC, I will try these things. Next up I will try to get Lufthansa and airfare on the phone at the same time, might be difficult. I will also call my travel insurance and get their advice.

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The perils of booking through a third party. Everything must go through the third party as they own the ticket.

 

I'm not sure how you didn't notice you purchased your ticket through Airfare, but you can't change it now. Highly doubt they moved your ticket to make more money.

 

Pick the flight you want, call Airfare and ask that you be changed to that flight. Be prepared for a frustrating battle.

 

Good luck, and consider only booking directly with the airline next time.

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Yes, it looks like a bad situation, however at this point, I am not blaming myself too much. I am not a travel agent or a lawyer but a traveler who had booked several times through Kayak with good results. The fares were not suspiciously low, but in the ball park with other fares. I got an email confirmation from Kayak, airfare, and of course Lufthansa. I called Lufthansa shortly after booking to confirm everything was set and the tickets were valid. I also bought comprehensive travel insurance and used a credit card with fraud protection. I was aware the tickets were non refundable, but that is not the issue. I was just unaware that an online TA would call and move my flights like this to a different day for no reason. Some people report the motive is to make your flights unworkable, so you have to cancel then airfare charges you $350 on top of the airline cancellation. (these were non refundable fares, so I am not paying anyone even more! I will walk away before I do that.)

 

I appreciate the comments on CC, I will try these things. Next up I will try to get Lufthansa and airfare on the phone at the same time, might be difficult. I will also call my travel insurance and get their advice.

 

Yes - see what your travel insurance policy covers.

Who did you purchase it from, and what type of coverage do you have?

 

This may actually be your best option.

I'd check with them asap.

 

(If you purchased you coverage through a travel insurance broker, such as Trip Insurance Store, I'd check with them first. They can probably explain which part of the coverage will be best for any particular claim. They helped us when we were overseas, and I landed in hospital. There were some odd expenses we were incurring, so I emailed TIS asking whether it would be covered, and we were assuming either it wouldn't be, or it would be a difficult fight to get one part of the costs paid - the largest chunk, of course! We got a fast response that they had checked with the insurer, and <clause x> would cover the entire cost, without any complications or special explanations. Point is, even if it isn't obvious whether the travel complication is covered, it may well be.)

 

Good luck.

Having insurance may give you choices that are outside of the nasty cycle you are in, with several different vendors, none of them being helpful...

 

GC

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I booked Lufthansa flights months ago through Kayak - for December 31st departure at 7:00 am out of FCO flying to Detroit via Frankfurt. We plan on spending night at FCO airport since there were no good flight times on the 30th. ...

 

So I got an email from airfare yesterday that said our flight information has changed and I need to approve within 7 days. I use the reservation number and log on to Lufthansa, and the flight now shows up at 7:20 am departure on Dec. 30th not Dec 31st (we will still be on the ship just docking likely.)

 

I called airfare and they said my flight has been delayed by 20 minutes 7:00 to 7:20 and I need to approve. I told them that it now says Dec 30th not Dec 31st and it is not a 20 minute change but a 24 hour change. They confirmed the new reservation says Dec 30th. They indicated it was requested by Lufthansa. The point is they didn't realize at first that it was a different day when I was on the phone with them, until I told them.

 

I called Lufthansa. They indicated that our reservation was cancelled and rebooked by airfare dot com. They also confirmed that our original reservation was for December 31st and now we are booked on December 30th - which won't work. Lufthansa said they couldn't help me since it was requested by airfare dot com. I also asked Lufthansa if the flight on Dec 31st is still scheduled and they said it is still operating at 7:30 am. (note the change from 7:00 am)

I've had a quick look at the flight availability and timetable information.

 

My guess is that you were originally booked on LH243 from FCO to FRA, and then LH442 from FRA to DTW. Although I can't now see what the scheduled times of LH243 used to be, it looks it's now scheduled to depart FCO at 0720 every day except Mondays, when it's at 0730. If it was originally scheduled at 0700, then that schedule change would explain why it looks like a 20-minute delay to the scheduled departure.

 

However, there are bigger changes to LH442 from FRA to DTW. Notably, although it is a flight that normally operates daily, it is not operating on 31 December or 1 January. I have a suspicion that this is a recent change, because the filed timetable information currently still has the flight operating on 31 December (but not 1 January) - so it may be that one more day has been cancelled as the schedule is being finalised for that season. Timetable listings in the GDS can lag behind the immediate changes to flight availability information.

 

If my guess is correct about what you were originally booked on, and also about what has happened to the flights since then, then the underlying reason that there has been a date change is simply because your original FRA-DTW flight has been cancelled. The nearest matching itinerary is the one that's 24 hours earlier, hence the automatic rebooking onto that. This is not necessarily an indication of anything underhand on the part of airfare.com.

 

What you were told on the phone is therefore consistent with a call centre agent simply not noticing the change of date in addition to the change of time. You have to remember that the screens that they are looking at may not be as user friendly as the emails that you get. So it is possible that this was simply an innocent mistake by a call centre agent and not an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes.

 

What you were told by Lufthansa may have been equally innocent. You asked about the flight from FCO to FRA, and it is true that that flight is still operating at 0730 that day (31 December, although it is worth noting that that flight is not operating on 1 January). These small schedule changes are routine and unsurprising. However, what I don't know is whether you specifically asked whether your FRA-DTW flight is still operating on 31 December. The answer to that question is no.

 

So the bottom line is that you can't make the automatically-rebooked itinerary, the itinerary that you originally booked is not available because the second flight has been cancelled, and you can't travel on 1 January because neither flight is operating. You have to work out what you want to do in this situation.

 

If my guess is correct that this has been brought about by Lufthansa's recent cancellation of LH442 FRA-DTW on 31 December, and if your ticket for the original itinerary had already been issued (note: this is different from simply having a confirmed reservation) then there is an argument that Lufthansa remains responsible for carrying you to DTW on 31 December. The obvious alternative would be for Lufthansa to rebook you onto DL87 FRA-DTW on 31 December at 1035-1403. It is arguable that it's part of Lufthansa's obligations under 261/2004 to do this. But you may have to be very specific about what you want and to be prepared to push for it.

 

A pertinent question, therefore: Were tickets issued? You are looking for a 13-digit number starting 220, with a separate number for each passenger.

 

The second question: Was this a one-way booking, or is this the return half of a round-trip booking?

 

And a third question: What would be your preferred solution? Some people might say that they'd be happy to stay in Rome until 2 January, but that may not work for you.

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I've had a quick look at the flight availability and timetable information.

 

My guess is that you were originally booked on LH243 from FCO to FRA, and then LH442 from FRA to DTW. Although I can't now see what the scheduled times of LH243 used to be, it looks it's now scheduled to depart FCO at 0720 every day except Mondays, when it's at 0730. If it was originally scheduled at 0700, then that schedule change would explain why it looks like a 20-minute delay to the scheduled departure.

 

However, there are bigger changes to LH442 from FRA to DTW. Notably, although it is a flight that normally operates daily, it is not operating on 31 December or 1 January. I have a suspicion that this is a recent change, because the filed timetable information currently still has the flight operating on 31 December (but not 1 January) - so it may be that one more day has been cancelled as the schedule is being finalised for that season. Timetable listings in the GDS can lag behind the immediate changes to flight availability information.

 

If my guess is correct about what you were originally booked on, and also about what has happened to the flights since then, then the underlying reason that there has been a date change is simply because your original FRA-DTW flight has been cancelled. The nearest matching itinerary is the one that's 24 hours earlier, hence the automatic rebooking onto that. This is not necessarily an indication of anything underhand on the part of airfare.com.

 

What you were told on the phone is therefore consistent with a call centre agent simply not noticing the change of date in addition to the change of time. You have to remember that the screens that they are looking at may not be as user friendly as the emails that you get. So it is possible that this was simply an innocent mistake by a call centre agent and not an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes.

 

What you were told by Lufthansa may have been equally innocent. You asked about the flight from FCO to FRA, and it is true that that flight is still operating at 0730 that day (31 December, although it is worth noting that that flight is not operating on 1 January). These small schedule changes are routine and unsurprising. However, what I don't know is whether you specifically asked whether your FRA-DTW flight is still operating on 31 December. The answer to that question is no.

 

So the bottom line is that you can't make the automatically-rebooked itinerary, the itinerary that you originally booked is not available because the second flight has been cancelled, and you can't travel on 1 January because neither flight is operating. You have to work out what you want to do in this situation.

 

If my guess is correct that this has been brought about by Lufthansa's recent cancellation of LH442 FRA-DTW on 31 December, and if your ticket for the original itinerary had already been issued (note: this is different from simply having a confirmed reservation) then there is an argument that Lufthansa remains responsible for carrying you to DTW on 31 December. The obvious alternative would be for Lufthansa to rebook you onto DL87 FRA-DTW on 31 December at 1035-1403. It is arguable that it's part of Lufthansa's obligations under 261/2004 to do this. But you may have to be very specific about what you want and to be prepared to push for it.

 

A pertinent question, therefore: Were tickets issued? You are looking for a 13-digit number starting 220, with a separate number for each passenger.

 

The second question: Was this a one-way booking, or is this the return half of a round-trip booking?

 

And a third question: What would be your preferred solution? Some people might say that they'd be happy to stay in Rome until 2 January, but that may not work for you.

 

thank you this is very helpful. So perhaps all are innocent here. The ticket was booked and a 13 digit number was available on Lufthansa website.

 

The latest update is I had emailed airfare.com with alternate choices, and they have responded with another strangely worded email but it does indicate they have reserved the flights I requested - 11:00 am Rome to Toronto, then to DTW both on air Canada. I logged into Lufthansa website and currently all flights stay status confirmed both the dec 30 and the 11 am dec 31. airfare.com is awaiting a response from me today to confirm. They don't mention anything about charges for the change - obviously there shouldn't be from the airline standpoint but this is the type of issue others have complained about from airfare.com using opportunities to charge fees, etc.

 

So I am currently debating either accept these flights (which would be fine) and stipulate I will not pay change fees. Or use this opportunity to bail completely and cancel, again if I can do it with no fees. However, I doubt airfare.com will allow that. The flights themselves are fine, I could not really get better times anywhere else. However, the 3rd party agent, and communications with them still has me worried.

 

Your post has reduced my stress a little bit, in that maybe all is well. thanks for your time.

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thanks for all the replies, I think we are set with flights back to Dec 31, 11 am departure on Air Canada.

 

I am going with the theory that there was no bad intent here just poor communication.

 

Surprising that during 2 calls to Lufthansa and 3 calls to the online agency no one told me that the Frankfurt to DTW flight on Dec 31 had indeed been cancelled (which likely caused the change) However a CC member discovered this - thanks !

 

Also surprising that Lufthansa told me that the change was the agencies request (perhaps more likely the agencies approval when suggested by Lufthansa?) That call is what set my stress level high !

 

Anyway, likely will book with airline directly for next trip and am hoping this current reservation now goes without further problems.

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thanks for all the replies, I think we are set with flights back to Dec 31, 11 am departure on Air Canada.

 

I am going with the theory that there was no bad intent here just poor communication.

 

Surprising that during 2 calls to Lufthansa and 3 calls to the online agency no one told me that the Frankfurt to DTW flight on Dec 31 had indeed been cancelled (which likely caused the change) However a CC member discovered this - thanks !

That's a pretty good result: you won't have to get up at the crack of dawn, you have a comfortable connection time in Toronto, and there is a further flight to Detroit that evening if you do happen to miss your booked connection.

 

Sometimes, getting information from hard-pressed call centre agents does require being a bit creative with the questions to ask. Airlines like you to think that the agents are there to help you, but the reality is that they are there to deal with as many calls as possible as quickly as possible. So there are many times when the question that you don't think of asking is the one that would unlock the secret to what's happened.

 

Fortunately (if I may say so) you gave us enough details that it was possible to debug the problem using the tools that we have. Too often on this forum, people post vague and unspecific queries and complaints from which it is impossible to give any focused or specific advice. I hope that you don't have any further hiccups now.

 

FWIW, I see that the filed timetable information has now caught up with the availability displays. This confirms that the cancellation of the FRA-DTW flight on 31 December was a very recent change. So if it's any comfort, you got told about this very quickly.

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Glad this was resolved. Might be worth setting up a flight notification with Air Canada. Just like other airlines they are prone to tweaking their flight schedule (our trip to Rome this summer has already had 3 changes with the connecting flight). That way if anything that concerns you pops up you should receive notification directly from Air Canada.

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