Opinions re: Business Class vs Economy & Best time of day to arrive in Europe?

Yes, you can earn DL Skymiles on KLM flights. You should also be able to choose your seats. If you have a DL flight number you should be able to select them on the Delta website. The exception would be if you have an intra-Europe leg; those are not generally assigned until 24 hours out.

Don't know about Delta as I live in a Star Alliance major hub (Houston), but I know I have booked flights to Frankfort on Lufthansa metal that is a code share with United. Booked on the United site. United gives me a booking number for the entire trip and a Lufthansa booking number for the flights on their planes. I have to go to the Lufthansa site to select seats on the flights on their planes even though all are United code shares. I do get the miles posted to my account as quickly as I would on United flights.

Don't know about Delta as I live in a Star Alliance major hub (Houston), but I know I have booked flights to Frankfort on Lufthansa metal that is a code share with United. Booked on the United site. United gives me a booking number for the entire trip and a Lufthansa booking number for the flights on their planes. I have to go to the Lufthansa site to select seats on the flights on their planes even though all are United code shares. I do get the miles posted to my account as quickly as I would on United flights.

A warning about booking "paid" tickets on UA's webpage for LH flights (this doesn't apply to award tickets). If you book a UA flight number (operated by LH), you will be unable to choose your seats, even if you pay, until online check-in.

Immediately after booking, you need to call UA and have them change the flights to the LH flight numbers, if you want advanced seat selection.

It's a real PITA.

Gardyloo, going through Heathrow (many of the AA TA flights route this way) adds some big taxes does it not? Is it only in one direction? Is there any way to see the taxes on a proposed itinerary?

There are two parts to the "Heathrow taxes" bogeyman.

First is the UK Air Passenger Duty (APD) which is basically a departure tax. As you can surmise, the APD is levied on flights departing from the UK where the passenger has been in the UK for more than 24 hours or where the travel originates in the UK. If you're just changing planes, even if the connection is overnight and you leave the airport to stay at a hotel, the APD is waived as long as both the arriving and departing flights are on the same ticket.

The APD has two mileage tiers, and two rates for each tier. Departing on the lowest-cost class of service for a destination less than 2000 miles away brings a fee of £13. In any higher class of service (premium economy, business etc.) the fee is doubled to £26. For flights longer than 2000 miles (e.g. transatlantic) the "cheapest" seats draw a fee of £75, and the other classes £150.

There are other airport taxes and fees but these are typical of other airports in any country.

The other big "fees" that some people feel are levied on Heathrow flights are actually fees charged by the airlines, especially British Airways. These used to be called "fuel surcharges" but BA stopped calling them that after being sued in US federal court (the fees bore no relationship with actual fuel prices.) But never fear, BA just renamed them as "airline imposed fees" and kept calm and carried on.

When you purchase a ticket for money, those fees are built into the price, so they're "invisible." However, when you redeem miles for a ticket that includes a BA flight, BA adds those fees on top of any taxes. American Airlines, who depends a lot on BA for its connections into Europe or Africa, passes on these fees to mileage redemption tickets.

So to get around them, you simply try to avoid BA in your bookings. For example, you can redeem AA miles on flights operated by Iberia, who fly to numerous European destinations via Madrid. Iberia is owned by the same holding company that owns BA, but the surcharges on Iberia-operated flights is much less than on BA flights, and Spain has no equivalent to the APD.

You can also fly on American-operated flights and skip many of the fees and charges. Earlier this month I used some of my AA miles to send my nephew to Greece, where he's volunteering with a refugee project on the island of Lesvos (Syrians and other refugees fleeing ISIS via Turkey.) He flew on American flights from Seattle to London (via Dallas) where he spent the night, then went on to Athens (on a BA flight) the next morning (but less than 24 hours in the UK.) The total fees and taxes for his flight came to US$45. Had he stayed in London instead of continuing on to Greece, the total fees to AA would have been $5.60 for SEA-xDFW-LHR. When he comes back next month, the taxes and fees are a little higher due to Greek taxes and UK airport taxes; BA's "surcharge" is the same. My recollection is the total is closer to $100 overall.

Since American Airlines merged with US Airways, US' former European routes from Philadelphia have increased American's footprint on the continent hugely. AA didn't fly to Amsterdam or several other European airports but now they do, so the ability to avoid BA has improved significantly. But even if you have to fly a short leg on BA the fees aren't deal-killers; it's longhaul flights and UK-originating flights (not just London, but Manchester, Edinburgh etc.) you want to avoid.

Hope this isn't TMI.

A warning about booking "paid" tickets on UA's webpage for LH flights (this doesn't apply to award tickets). If you book a UA flight number (operated by LH), you will be unable to choose your seats, even if you pay, until online check-in.

Immediately after booking, you need to call UA and have them change the flights to the LH flight numbers, if you want advanced seat selection.

It's a real PITA.

That is not the experience I have had and have done this twice in the past with another booked for Dec. I am given the Lufthansa booking number on the United site and have gone to the Lufthansa site that same day and selected my seats. These flights are code share, so that is probably the difference.

P.S. Got worried, just went to the Lufthansa site and my seat selection is still there!

Off topic. Meg, DL now has one new A350 flight a day from DTW to AMS on the schedule with the premium select seating. Seems to start around April. Flight is noted as a flagship flight.

Yes I saw that. Between 10/30 and next spring DL is rolling out 6 flights on which they will offer their new Premium Select. 4 are flights from DTW to destinations in Asia, 1 is a flight from ATL to Asia, and one is the DTW-AMS flight. Personally I would have preferred ATL-AMS, but they have more 350s on order so we'll see what else they do in the future.

There are two parts to the "Heathrow taxes" bogeyman.

 

First is the UK Air Passenger Duty (APD) which is basically a departure tax. As you can surmise, the APD is levied on flights departing from the UK where the passenger has been in the UK for more than 24 hours or where the travel originates in the UK. If you're just changing planes, even if the connection is overnight and you leave the airport to stay at a hotel, the APD is waived as long as both the arriving and departing flights are on the same ticket.

 

The APD has two mileage tiers, and two rates for each tier. Departing on the lowest-cost class of service for a destination less than 2000 miles away brings a fee of £13. In any higher class of service (premium economy, business etc.) the fee is doubled to £26. For flights longer than 2000 miles (e.g. transatlantic) the "cheapest" seats draw a fee of £75, and the other classes £150.

 

There are other airport taxes and fees but these are typical of other airports in any country.

 

The other big "fees" that some people feel are levied on Heathrow flights are actually fees charged by the airlines, especially British Airways. These used to be called "fuel surcharges" but BA stopped calling them that after being sued in US federal court (the fees bore no relationship with actual fuel prices.) But never fear, BA just renamed them as "airline imposed fees" and kept calm and carried on.

 

When you purchase a ticket for money, those fees are built into the price, so they're "invisible." However, when you redeem miles for a ticket that includes a BA flight, BA adds those fees on top of any taxes. American Airlines, who depends a lot on BA for its connections into Europe or Africa, passes on these fees to mileage redemption tickets.

 

So to get around them, you simply try to avoid BA in your bookings. For example, you can redeem AA miles on flights operated by Iberia, who fly to numerous European destinations via Madrid. Iberia is owned by the same holding company that owns BA, but the surcharges on Iberia-operated flights is much less than on BA flights, and Spain has no equivalent to the APD.

 

You can also fly on American-operated flights and skip many of the fees and charges. Earlier this month I used some of my AA miles to send my nephew to Greece, where he's volunteering with a refugee project on the island of Lesvos (Syrians and other refugees fleeing ISIS via Turkey.) He flew on American flights from Seattle to London (via Dallas) where he spent the night, then went on to Athens (on a BA flight) the next morning (but less than 24 hours in the UK.) The total fees and taxes for his flight came to US$45. Had he stayed in London instead of continuing on to Greece, the total fees to AA would have been $5.60 for SEA-xDFW-LHR. When he comes back next month, the taxes and fees are a little higher due to Greek taxes and UK airport taxes; BA's "surcharge" is the same. My recollection is the total is closer to $100 overall.

 

Since American Airlines merged with US Airways, US' former European routes from Philadelphia have increased American's footprint on the continent hugely. AA didn't fly to Amsterdam or several other European airports but now they do, so the ability to avoid BA has improved significantly. But even if you have to fly a short leg on BA the fees aren't deal-killers; it's longhaul flights and UK-originating flights (not just London, but Manchester, Edinburgh etc.) you want to avoid.

 

Hope this isn't TMI.

Thank you very much for the explanation. It will help on searches. Living in DTW, we’re usually Skyteam. But, AA can work from time to time on a mile purchase and redemption when I have just enough for a one way on one of the others.

I’m considering the current 20% Starwood to AA transfer bonus (plus the usual 5K on 20K) and buying more AA points on the AA sale for some premium tickets to either London or CDG. Or, I might just sit with the points as they are and actually finally buy tickets on AA in its new PE. All our AA/Oneworld flights the past few years have been point redemptions.

Yes I saw that. Between 10/30 and next spring DL is rolling out 6 flights on which they will offer their new Premium Select. 4 are flights from DTW to destinations in Asia, 1 is a flight from ATL to Asia, and one is the DTW-AMS flight. Personally I would have preferred ATL-AMS, but they have more 350s on order so we'll see what else they do in the future.

Unfortunately, the DTW-AMS is the early flight. We prefer later times for TA’s. I’m surprised, that DTW got the TA...I would have thought ATL.

Note...pricing seems to be a bit higher than AF (buying on the AF website) and AA for its product. You’ve probably scored business for less.

That is not the experience I have had and have done this twice in the past with another booked for Dec. I am given the Lufthansa booking number on the United site and have gone to the Lufthansa site that same day and selected my seats. These flights are code share, so that is probably the difference.

!

Yes, an LH flight booked on UA's webpage is a code share, and that's what I'm talking about. Yes, you can get the LH PNR from US.

If you've booked an award ticket, advance seat selection is no problem. Currently, if you've booked a paid ticket, and you have UA flight numbers for an LH operated flight, no advanced seat selection any longer, even if you call LH.

If you were able to select a seat in advance, maybe you are ticketed with an LH flight number? I have no idea.

Yes, an LH flight booked on UA's webpage is a code share, and that's what I'm talking about. Yes, you can get the LH PNR from US.

If you've booked an award ticket, advance seat selection is no problem. Currently, if you've booked a paid ticket, and you have UA flight numbers for an LH operated flight, no advanced seat selection any longer, even if you call LH.

If you were able to select a seat in advance, maybe you are ticketed with an LH flight number? I have no idea.

I booked about 3 weeks ago. Paid cash (well, my United credit card) for the ticket. On the United website my reservation has the United code share number for the flight number. I checked yesterday and my seats (IAH -FRA-VIE-FRA) are still listed on the Lufthansa site. That's all I know. If I ever fly Lufthansa again, I guess we'll see what happens then! :cool: