Mariner Alaska Cruise Viral outbreak

All opinions on this forum are welcome, but I wonder why people can’t be kind.

 

 

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I wish there was a 100% solution to prevent nori-virus but unfortunately there is not.

Yes, you can pick it up off the ship, particularly when dining. I see that Lima is mentioned and I remember on a World Cruise on another line that some embarking passengers came on with it. It seems that it is more prevalent in some places than others.

Once on the ship it is critical that any guests or crew who have it get medical attention and get quarantined. I have read on some of the ship inspections across many cruise lines where a member of the crew from time to time has it and didn't quarantine themselves. Not a good idea.

We do know that the germ lives longer on things such as door handles so we are careful with that. We even wipe down our own handles from time to time. But no matter what you do you can get it.

Here are some tips from the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/features/norovirus/index.html

Keith

Another CDC link that is also excellent about the Vessel Sanitation Program:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/public/public.htm

There are several interesting links from that page. One answer to a FAQ about infectious gastroenteritis says:

An earlier post in this thread says that hugging is fine. Note the CDC says gastroenteritis can be spread by touching other people. Viruses can remain alive for some time on skin, clothing, and other surfaces for some time so it is important to avoid touching potentially contaminated surfaces. Best to rely on advice for infection control from sites such as the CDC or infection control experts.

Also CDC advice about hand washing involves the length of time that hands should be washed with soap and water. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/handwashing/handwashingtips.htm

From my observations of people washing hands in public restrooms, I don't know that I have ever seen anyone do more than a simple rinse with soap and water and often just with water.

Another CDC link that is also excellent about the Vessel Sanitation Program:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/public/public.htm

 

There are several interesting links from that page. One answer to a FAQ about infectious gastroenteritis says:

 

 

 

• Individuals who have gastroenteritis can spread illness to others by touching handrails, elevator buttons, shared utensils, and other people while they are ill. Infections causing gastroenteritis can also be spread by contaminated food or water.
  

 

An earlier post in this thread says that hugging is fine. Note the CDC says gastroenteritis can be spread by touching other people. Viruses can remain alive for some time on skin, clothing, and other surfaces for some time so it is important to avoid touching potentially contaminated surfaces. Best to rely on advice for infection control from sites such as the CDC or infection control experts.

 

Also CDC advice about hand washing involves the length of time that hands should be washed with soap and water. https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/handwashing/handwashingtips.htm

From my observations of people washing hands in public restrooms, I don't know that I have ever seen anyone do more than a simple rinse with soap and water and often just with water.

Hugging is not fine.

And yes, door handles are the worst not only for this but for several other ones. This is why we wipe our door handles from time to time outside and inside the room.

Washing hands is important and length of time is key. A simple approach is say the alphabet slowly to yourself and consider two times. Not the put fingers under the faucet for a couple of seconds.

But you can take all of the precautions in the world but if someone who is sick is making or serving the food that is a big problem.

Keith

Well we are not germaphobes and we hug our close friends and shake hands but we wash them. We hug our relatives and their children. Shaking hands with people has been around for centuries, rubbing noses or holding hands in some cultures male or female has been around as part of culture. If you make contact with someone just wash your hands if you are afraid after making contact. Just be careful if someone has a cold or may have an immune deficiency. Just kindly say hello...great to see you and I am sure most people would understand. Noro and other contagious germs are not dedicated to just cruise lines also land based venues. We refuse to live in a bubble and not show a personal contact with another person. Just take your own precautions.

Hugging is not fine.

 

And yes, door handles are the worst not only for this but for several other ones. This is why we wipe our door handles from time to time outside and inside the room.

 

 

Washing hands is important and length of time is key. A simple approach is say the alphabet slowly to yourself and consider two times. Not the put fingers under the faucet for a couple of seconds.

 

But you can take all of the precautions in the world but if someone who is sick is making or serving the food that is a big problem.

 

Keith

Keith - the "hugging is fine" comment came from Captain Serena. She also explained how it is the palm of your hands is where the germs thrive. So, while I understand what the CDC says, Serena's ships stay very healthy with her rules - even though she isn't a doctor.

Certainly agree that washing hands is important but you can wash your hands properly and then touch a handrail or door handle and the germs are right back. The germs being on your hand is not a problem (unless you have a cut) but rubbing your eyes, touching your mouth or nose can easily spread the illness.

I would think that the more precautions the better. Now that wipes are on the market that are used by hospitals and are proven to kill norovirus, keeping the wipes around (in a pocket or handbag) makes it easier to wipe your hands when a sink and soap are not available (as they may not be when you are on tour).

I do not believe that anyone who cruises lives in a bubble, at least on a cruise shiop.

However, there are things to avoid.

Ideally not shaking hands is a good idea and hugging is best to avoid.

Of course you can do both and increase the odds of getting sick.

We have tried to cut back on this and for us it has worked.

Keith - the "hugging is fine" comment came from Captain Serena. She also explained how it is the palm of your hands is where the germs thrive. So, while I understand what the CDC says, Serena's ships stay very healthy with her rules - even though she isn't a doctor.

 

Certainly agree that washing hands is important but you can wash your hands properly and then touch a handrail or door handle and the germs are right back. The germs being on your hand is not a problem (unless you have a cut) but rubbing your eyes, touching your mouth or nose can easily spread the illness.

 

I would think that the more precautions the better. Now that wipes are on the market that are used by hospitals and are proven to kill norovirus, keeping the wipes around (in a pocket or handbag) makes it easier to wipe your hands when a sink and soap are not available (as they may not be when you are on tour).

TC I hear you but people shake hands and then end up putting fingers in mouth.

I can't tell you how many people I see who stick fingers in mouth. And I am talking about adults. Ugh!

I just think that it's better to avoid all of this whether that is to prevent noro virus or many other illnesses.

The reality is that we can't avoid it all and that includes germs that we inhale but there are things we can do.

I do believe that minimizing eating off the ship is a good idea.

I have known too many people who say well I am eating in a luxury restaurant so nothing can happen and then they come back to the ship and the next day have Noro Virus.

Back to shaking of hands I know some cultures promote this while some don't.

Personally I think we are better off to avoid it while traveling.

It's never fun to get sick and less fun when you are traveling

Keith

We all have to decide how much risk we want to take many times a day in our lives. I certainly agree about not wanting to live in a bubble. But I would change some behaviors if there were an outbreak of a respiratory or stomach virus that is making several people ill in my environment, e.g., at the local gym, at work, or on a ship. My primary disagreement was with the unqualified or blanket statement that "hugging is fine" in a thread about a shipboard infectious process of undetermined etiology that has spread among a number of passengers.

Yes we live in a bubble be it on airplanes or cruise ships. The idea is to just wash your hands after having contact with anyone land or sea. This is akin to being agoraphobic when you don’t want to leave your house because you may contact a germ from your mailbox or pick up a package delivered or sharing a dish at a restaurant.

I agree hugging is not an issue unless one has a cold or flu and politely one should admit it. Most of us still enjoy reuniting with friends on a cruise and will give them a hug which I agree with TravelCat is relatively harmless. If one has an immune problem that is understandable. We hug crew members and friends all the time. In business before we retired we shook hand and gave the pat on the back or kiss on the cheek for many years with no issues.

Also a crew member who is delivering your drink or dinner may have an issue and touching the rim of the glass or plate and you will not know it or they may not have symptoms. Now what?

Perhaps Rachel who I hear is a doctor can weigh in on this. BTW Rachel, we are so sorry for your loss.

TC I hear you but people shake hands and then end up putting fingers in mouth.

 

I can't tell you how many people I see who stick fingers in mouth. And I am talking about adults. Ugh!

 

I just think that it's better to avoid all of this whether that is to prevent noro virus or many other illnesses.

 

The reality is that we can't avoid it all and that includes germs that we inhale but there are things we can do.

 

I do believe that minimizing eating off the ship is a good idea.

 

I have known too many people who say well I am eating in a luxury restaurant so nothing can happen and then they come back to the ship and the next day have Noro Virus.

 

Back to shaking of hands I know some cultures promote this while some don't.

 

Personally I think we are better off to avoid it while traveling.

 

It's never fun to get sick and less fun when you are traveling

 

Keith

As usual, you make valid points. It was surprising to me how easy it is to forget not to shake hands. When Captain Serena introduced us to the Captain on the next segment on the Mariner, we immediately shook hands and were nicely asked to go and disinfect our hands (this was the same Captain that had a Code Red on his South American cruise - he did not continue with the no hand shaking rule.)

As I mentioned last year, it became almost like a game ...... when we greeted officers for the Captain's Reception, we all did elbow bumps instead of shaking hands. A few of us made dances out of it. Many of us were concerned about going to a place that is known for getting onboard illnesses and the ship had gone through multiple Code Reds. Whether Captain Serena was right or wrong, we had a great cruise and people were healthy. In my opinion, that speaks for itself.

In any case, my hope for our special Explorer birthday cruise next February is that a no hand-shaking policy will go into effect and we will be able to spend the time enjoying ourselves rather than dealing with Code Red.

Thank you for your input on this subject.

Jackie

P.S. Congratulations on reaching over 100,000 posts - you have helped so many people!

Thank you very much Jackie. I appreciate your comments.

I just wanted to provide a few additional comments related to this thread.

In the end, we know when we travel that most certainly increases our odds for getting sick. Our own experience has been that there are some things we can do to minimize the risk.

Back to Noro the good news is that the cruise lines do know what to do during a major outbreak. I remember those days when there was not so much experience and cruise lines such as Princess experienced some terrible outbreaks resulting in some cruises having to be cancelled because they didn't know how to control the outbreak. Thankfully that can be avoided with the knowledge and procedures that are put in place from cleaning products to removing items from tables to serving guests on buffets, etc.

With respect to hugging and shaking of hands we really try to avoid both of these. More sensitive to this because of the medicine my wife is on. We have found that by avoiding this we have minimized our risk of getting ill. No, not 100% but it has helped and when we don't that it has increased our chances. No, I can't give 100% facts on this one but it just seems to have worked that way for us. But to think that everyone who is sick is not going to be out and about and do not hug or shake hands to me is not being realistic. And, yes a big and, people can be contagious and not even know it because their symptoms haven't begun. Anyway like most things in life everyone will do things differently and have different beliefs on any given subject. I guess this is what makes the world go round. LOL but true.

And when we travel we have learned that some people follow very good hygiene and other related practices and some do not. So we take a little additional caution knowing this.

Happy Cruising.

Keith

From past experience on the Mariner in SA when boarding in Lima we were notified that the ship had already had a 5% illness rate on the prior segment which I believe was Miami to Lima so not attributable to MP. It was not Noro but rather a respiratory virus and we did go Code Red.

Another CDC link that is also excellent about the Vessel Sanitation Program:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/public/public.htmThere are several interesting links from that page. One answer to a FAQ about infectious gastroenteritis says:

 

• Individuals who have gastroenteritis can spread illness to others by touching handrails, elevator buttons, shared utensils, and other people while they are ill. Infections causing gastroenteritis can also be spread by contaminated food or water.
  

Best to rely on advice for infection control from sites such as the CDC or infection control experts.

Cruisethec's, I think you have the best information on this and should be followed. People that think they know just don't.

Thanks for your input.......let's hope people read what's right. Rick

I have no skin in the game here, but I do want to mention.

My butler once told me that it seemed that frequently after those ports mentioned there was always or more frequently an outbreak. I believe that there is something going on here that it happens many years over.

Caroldoll, I think your right---but people have to be smart and wash their hands, clean their shoes and cloths. How many times when you go to a restaurant --people just seat downs open a menu and eat. Then they leave still without washing their hands taking it to the ship. People need to be aware and be clean.

Carole made a similar point to mine. While not everything we are told on a ship (or in life) is correct, when we hear the same story multiple times, it behooves us to pay attention. For this reason, I would highly recommend taking extra precaution on South American itineraries.

We all agree about hand washing which is a good start. And, at least to a point, we believe what the CDC says. We need to keep in mind that things are reported differently when a ship' itinerary includes U.S. (and Canada) vs. when there is an outbreak or illness when the ship is in other countries.

While I do read the CDC, I also read a website that reports "accidents" that includes things like the the following that occurred June 20th on the Mariner:

"On June 20, 2018, a 55-year-old female passenger (suffering from internal bleeding) was medevaced from the ship approx 40 km (25 ml) southeast of Montague Island (Alaska). The woman and a crew nurse were airlifted by an USCG helicopter team (dispatched from Air Station Kodiak) and transported to Anchorage AK.

During the incident, the ship was on 10-day Alaskan cruise (itinerary June 20-30) from Seward to Vancouver BC, and en-route from Seward to Icy Strait Point."

This is what the website reported for the Norovirus outbreak:

"In June 2018, CDC reported on itinerary June 20-30, a Norovirus outbreak affected 38 passengers (out of 652, or 5,8%) and 0 crew (out of 457). The ship was on 10-day Alaskan cruise from Seward AK to Vancouver BC (Canada), with call ports Icy Strait Point, Juneau, Skagway, Sitka, Wrangell, Ketchikan, and Victoria BC (Canada)."

The reason I brought up the last statistic is because, according to the websites, the last time the Mariner had Norovirus was in 2009. As we know, the Mariner went into Code Red status at least three times (think that it was four if you count South America) in 2017 but it was apparently not Norovirus (or, if it was, there was no need to report it as such).

Carole made a similar point to mine. While not everything we are told on a ship (or in life) is correct, when we hear the same story multiple times, it behooves us to pay attention. For this reason, I would highly recommend taking extra precaution on South American itineraries.

 

We all agree about hand washing which is a good start. And, at least to a point, we believe what the CDC says. We need to keep in mind that things are reported differently when a ship' itinerary includes U.S. (and Canada) vs. when there is an outbreak or illness when the ship is in other countries.

 

While I do read the CDC, I also read a website that reports "accidents" that includes things like the the following that occurred June 20th on the Mariner:

 

"On June 20, 2018, a 55-year-old female passenger (suffering from internal bleeding) was medevaced from the ship approx 40 km (25 ml) southeast of Montague Island (Alaska). The woman and a crew nurse were airlifted by an USCG helicopter team (dispatched from Air Station Kodiak) and transported to Anchorage AK.

During the incident, the ship was on 10-day Alaskan cruise (itinerary June 20-30) from Seward to Vancouver BC, and en-route from Seward to Icy Strait Point."

This is what the website reported for the Norovirus outbreak:

 

"In June 2018, CDC reported on itinerary June 20-30, a Norovirus outbreak affected 38 passengers (out of 652, or 5,8%) and 0 crew (out of 457). The ship was on 10-day Alaskan cruise from Seward AK to Vancouver BC (Canada), with call ports Icy Strait Point, Juneau, Skagway, Sitka, Wrangell, Ketchikan, and Victoria BC (Canada)."

The reason I brought up the last statistic is because, according to the websites, the last time the Mariner had Norovirus was in 2009. As we know, the Mariner went into Code Red status at least three times (think that it was four if you count South America) in 2017 but it was apparently not Norovirus (or, if it was, there was no need to report it as such).

My understanding is reports to CDC only have to be made if occurrence is within 15 days of entry to a US port

The following is the criteria for reporting Noro Virus.

Keep in mind that the CDC only lists the ships/dates/cruise lines when it meets the percent criteria so you can be traveling on a ship where some guests and/or guests have it and won't read about it on the CDC web site.

Keith

The Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP) requires cruise ships to log and report the number of passengers and crew who say they have symptoms of gastrointestinal illness.

Medical staff on cruise ships with a foreign itinerary that visit the U.S. participating in the program must send gastrointestinal illness case reports to VSP at these designated times:

• Before arriving to a U.S. port from a foreign port. This initial report is required even when there are no cases of gastrointestinal illness. Staff make this report at least 24 hours before the ship arrives at a U.S. port.
  
• When 2% or more of the passengers or crew have gastrointestinal illness. Staff must send this report any time the vessel is in the United States or within 15 days of arriving at a U.S. port.
  

Data on this page are from these surveillance reports and from CDC-led investigations. The gastrointestinal illness cases reported are totals for the entire voyage. These cases do not represent the number of active (symptomatic) GI cases at any given port of call or at disembarkation.

VSP posts cruise ship outbreaks when they meet all of the following criteria:

• Fall within the purview of VSP (see about VSP).
  
• Are on voyages from 3-21 days long.
  
• Are on ships carrying 100 or more passengers.
  
• Are voyages where 3% or more of passengers or crew report symptoms of gastrointestinal illness to the ship’s medical staff.
  

VSP may also post outbreak updates for gastrointestinal illness outbreaks of public health significance that do not necessarily meet the above criteria.

The reason I brought up the last statistic is because, according to the websites, the last time the Mariner had Norovirus was in 2009. As we know, the Mariner went into Code Red status at least three times (think that it was four if you count South America) in 2017 but it was apparently not Norovirus (or, if it was, there was no need to report it as such).

The above is obviously a red herring as the ship was not required to report to CDC as it didn't meet the CDC requirements as Keith and Looncall both reported so no way to know if it was Noro or not.

The above is obviously a red herring as the ship was not required to report to CDC as it didn't meet the CDC requirements as Keith and Looncall both reported so no way to know if it was Noro or not.

That is pretty much what I said in my last post!

Thanks for posting the snippet from the VSP Keith. I'd posted part of it and the link for the website on another thread in the past but always helpful to have the facts.

Thanks for posting the snippet from the VSP Keith. I'd posted part of it and the link for the website on another thread in the past but always helpful to have the facts.

LoonCall. You are very welcome.

Keith

"So just pushing the blame on Peru ���� is not a valid medical opinion."

A bit late to the party but I was on an Oceania ship in March 2017 where Peru was blamed for an outbreak but in conversation with passengers who had been on the previous leg, the illness was on the ship long before it got to Lima. We were delayed in boarding in Lima because they were doing a deep clean. All passengers, including those on B2B were off the ship. The supreme irony was that pens were being shared to complete the medical questionnaire! Infection control on the ship only seemed to apply to things that would inconvenience passengers - anything that made money for Oceania stayed open. So casino chips were passed around, the shops held a handbag & jewellery event during the outbreak where passengers were freely pawing the goods - no salt cellars or milk jugs on the table because you might get infected but OK to pass the handbags and jewellery around!

We use Germstar Noro when we go aboard. We spray down everything in the cabin before we touch anything. Then, we check for bedbugs. Only after that do we start to unpack. Germstar's 2 oz bottle fits in your purse and can be carried aboard airplanes, too. As a former flight attendant, let me suggest you use it liberally. It's available at Amazon and it will kill Norovirus.

Norovirus is very hard to kill. That's why the hand sanitizers aboard ship don't do squat. It's just window dressing.

My cruising experience is limited to Cunard and river cruises. My first RSS cruise is in January. The protocol on Cunard is no one ever shakes hands, ever. Prevention is always in place. They take sanitation and safety very seriously. I'm hopeful to find the same standards on RSS. I certainly plan to do my part.