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Hawai Cruisers - Have You Sailed Through The "Pacific Garbage Patch"?


mnocket
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They were talking about this on the radio yesterday. I think it's real, but I did wonder about cruise ships.

Agree. I never doubted it, but when I saw the map it occurred to me that most every Hawaii bound ship would pass through it. I've never heard cruisers comment about it. Strange.

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Just saw this article and it occurred to me that if this is accurate, then most every ship that sails from the US mainland to Hawaii must pass through it. Is this story accurate or fake news?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5878949/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastic-dump-growing/

Just back from a Hawaii cruise. Yes, we sailed through it. Didn't see anything.

 

Chances are you won't see much. It's a big area, and it depends on what sort of stuff, and how much is floating around the ocean.

 

It just refers to an area where the ocean currents meet up. It's natural that stuff floating around will eventually wind up there. Comes from trash, lost fishing equipment, whatever finds it's way into the ocean.

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September 2017 we sailed from Vancouver to Hawaii. We didn’t see an actual “Garbage Patch” but we did see a lot of plastic garbage floating. From buffet type trays, liquid soap jugs, buckets, unrecognized floating bits to the biggest.....a small boat that was bobbing and almost submerged, with a few feet of the bow visible. This created quite a “stir”, with the Captain and Crew requesting a turn-around deviation from course, to be sure that it really was an abandoned boat and not someone in distress. The PA announcement was that the boat had been there a long time, was covered in barnacles & that they were advised to note it’s coordinates and to leave it there. It certainly had many of the patrons peering over the rails, and was the topic of discussion for a day or two.

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September 2017 we sailed from Vancouver to Hawaii. We didn’t see an actual “Garbage Patch” but we did see a lot of plastic garbage floating. From buffet type trays, liquid soap jugs, buckets, unrecognized floating bits to the biggest.....a small boat that was bobbing and almost submerged, with a few feet of the bow visible. This created quite a “stir”, with the Captain and Crew requesting a turn-around deviation from course, to be sure that it really was an abandoned boat and not someone in distress. The PA announcement was that the boat had been there a long time, was covered in barnacles & that they were advised to note it’s coordinates and to leave it there. It certainly had many of the patrons peering over the rails, and was the topic of discussion for a day or two.

 

Were you on Carnival Legend? If so, we saw Legend, twice, in Maui. Saw her while in port in Kahului as we drove past then again at sunset where we could barely see her in the distance (the funnel gave her away). We were staying at a hotel on Maui's west coast.

 

 

On a social media page I follow, I've seen comments about Hawaii and trash that washes up on the beaches and also read something about it while researching before our trip. Some of that trash is apparently from the tsunami that hit Japan. Some people have found the glass floats and really pretty bottles. Most of the rest...just trash, lots of plastic. Wonder if some of this is what is washing onto some of Hawaii's beaches...:(

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It's real. The problem is that a large part of the area called the "garbage patch" is mainly "micro-plastic" which is not visible very far above the water. The large masses tend to be concentrated in the center of the "convergence zones" or "eye" of the circular gyre currents. There are two major garbage zones in the north Pacific gyre, eastern and western. The eastern one is just about above the great circle route from LA to Hawaii, and below the great circle route from Vancouver to Hawaii, so while the ships may pass through the fringes, where the micro-plastic is, they tend to miss the areas of large plastic convergence.

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It's real. The problem is that a large part of the area called the "garbage patch" is mainly "micro-plastic" which is not visible very far above the water.

 

According to The Ocean Cleanup, who did this and a previous study, that's not entirely true when measured by mass:

 

From https://www.theoceancleanup.com/faq/

 

By number, most pieces of plastic in the ocean are indeed small. However, based on our 2015 Mega Expedition findings, by mass the bigger pieces, or macroplastics outweigh the microplastics (particles between 1-5mm) by several orders of magnitude. Therefore we need to act fast in collecting those larger pieces, since over time they will break down into the much more dangerous microplastics.

 

Then again, the density is different from what the media pictures suggest. There's a lot of plastic, but it's also a huge area.

 

While The Ocean Cleanup has gathered a lot of funding (more than $30 million), they obviously can always use more. While 30 million is a lot, it's also what Carnival earns in a week. IMHO, here's a very cheap option to reverse all bad publicity about environmental impact delivered on a silver platter.

Edited by AmazedByCruising
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That's because the mass of a single large piece could be the same as many thousands of microscopic pieces. Their point is that over time the big piece will break down to microscopic pieces.

 

From Wikipedia:

The patch is characterized by exceptionally high relative pelagic concentrations of plastic, chemical sludge, and other debris that have been trapped by the currents of the North Pacific Gyre.[2] Its low density (4 particles per cubic meter) prevents detection by satellite imagery, or even by casual boaters or divers in the area. It consists primarily of a small increase in suspended, often microscopic, particles in the upper water column.

A cruise ship passenger isn't likely to notice this density of trash.

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According to The Ocean Cleanup, who did this and a previous study, that's not entirely true when measured by mass:

 

From https://www.theoceancleanup.com/faq/

 

By number, most pieces of plastic in the ocean are indeed small. However, based on our 2015 Mega Expedition findings, by mass the bigger pieces, or macroplastics outweigh the microplastics (particles between 1-5mm) by several orders of magnitude. Therefore we need to act fast in collecting those larger pieces, since over time they will break down into the much more dangerous microplastics.

 

Then again, the density is different from what the media pictures suggest. There's a lot of plastic, but it's also a huge area.

 

While The Ocean Cleanup has gathered a lot of funding (more than $30 million), they obviously can always use more. While 30 million is a lot, it's also what Carnival earns in a week. IMHO, here's a very cheap option to reverse all bad publicity about environmental impact delivered on a silver platter.

 

What I am saying is that the density of the patch is like a fried egg. The micro-plastics are the white of the egg, and the large plastic is concentrated in the yolk. This is due to the circular, gyre nature of the ocean currents, which "corrals" the mass towards the center, while the smaller particles can float with the current at the periphery.

 

Not sure what you mean by your statement of reversing bad publicity? I would assume that the cruise lines would wait to see if full scale operations are viable, with little to no harm to the environment as claimed, before they would care to put their name to something like this.

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I watched a documentary about researchers at the patch and they say that most of the plastics that end up in the gyres are "new plastics" so they haven't had time to break down yet. They were saying that what is needed is for a reduction in "new plastics" coming into the gyres as that would see the process of reducing micro plastics in the ocean.

 

What is really needed is for us humans to stop using disposable stuff:( We buy so much stuff that we use for a year before we swap it out for the latest greatest thing, or because they are so badly made they break too quickly:o. And don't bother with biodegradable plastics, it turns out they just breakdown into micro plastics quicker:loudcry:. Also polyester clothing worst contributer to micro plastics next to manufacturers plastic pellets that are the raw ingredients in plastic goods:eek:.

 

I hate all this doom and gloom stuff. Does anyone try to reduce their plastic waste? I try to bring my own cup to coffee shops, and bags to shopping centres, I also have reduced the amount of clothes I buy especially after realising how much stuff I have hardly worn! Saved me a ton of money, can go on more holidays;). I know this stuff is probably superficial but I don't really know what else I can do:o

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What I am saying is that the density of the patch is like a fried egg. The micro-plastics are the white of the egg, and the large plastic is concentrated in the yolk. This is due to the circular, gyre nature of the ocean currents, which "corrals" the mass towards the center, while the smaller particles can float with the current at the periphery.

 

OK, yes that's how it works I think.

 

Not sure what you mean by your statement of reversing bad publicity? I would assume that the cruise lines would wait to see if full scale operations are viable, with little to no harm to the environment as claimed, before they would care to put their name to something like this.

 

Let's agree there is bad publicity. "One ship equals millions of cars for SOx". "Anchoring in the middle of precious coral". "Rich people cruise" leading to extra scrutiny. The cruiselines do their utmost to tell how they try to decrease the damage, but everytime they say "now we got scrubbers" or "now we use electricity from the port instead of burning fuel", they still also say "we are damaging the environment, but a bit less from now on". Airlines offer "we'll plant a tree to cover the CO2 for this flight". That's nice but not overwhelming. A cruise line saying "for every guest, we're removing 200kg of plastic from the sea, here's a picture of how much that is and now look at this happy sea turtle" would almost make me feel sorry for the turtle if I didn't book a cruise.

 

It's not a fringe project. Nobody would blame the industry for trying after the UN awarded Slat with a "Champion of the Earth Award", where really big names and companies were investing, and it eventually turned out to be actually worse for the environment.

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Just saw this article and it occurred to me that if this is accurate, then most every ship that sails from the US mainland to Hawaii must pass through it. Is this story accurate or fake news?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5878949/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastic-dump-growing/

Well..it's true and NOT true. I've cruised between Hawaii and Mainland on occasion. One does NOT actually SEE a vast gyre of stuff, but factually, yes, Ocean Currents concentrate 'Stuff' in a number of places on the oceans. Remember the 'Marijuana boats' from Caribbean appearing off coast of Iceland?? Or the infamously abandoned MV Lyubov Orlova riding the North Atlantic's currents?? Same deal...different ocean.

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This story is a myth N.P.R. busted this story on there Sunday morning show a few months ago(to there credit they are very P.C.). If something was twice the size of Texas you could not avoid seeing

it .It is one of these things that people(alarmists) want to be true it is not. They (N.P.R.) traced the story to a person crossing the Pacific on a yacht and wrote a book about there experience .How some one on a boat could tell if something is twice the size of Texas is beyond me . Don't expect this story to go away it won't, facts don't matter to people with end of the worlds beliefs .

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This story is a myth N.P.R. busted this story on there Sunday morning show a few months ago(to there credit they are very P.C.). If something was twice the size of Texas you could not avoid seeing

it .It is one of these things that people(alarmists) want to be true it is not. They (N.P.R.) traced the story to a person crossing the Pacific on a yacht and wrote a book about there experience .How some one on a boat could tell if something is twice the size of Texas is beyond me . Don't expect this story to go away it won't, facts don't matter to people with end of the worlds beliefs .

 

Hmm. Two days ago, NPR has this to say: "Trash Patch in the Pacific is many times bigger than we thought"

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/22/596142560/the-trash-patch-in-the-pacific-is-many-times-bigger-than-we-thought

 

Six years ago, they reported:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/05/09/152350088/study-plastic-garbage-in-pacific-ocean-has-increased-100-fold-in-40-years

 

So, not sure who or how they debunked this. And while there is debate as to the exact size of the masses (and there are more than one), agencies like NOAA and institutes like Scripps acknowledge that there are problem areas where plastic concentrations exist and these areas are significant in size and a considerable problem. Is there an "island" mass the size of Texas, no, but there is an area that large that has a higher concentration of plastic debris, large and small, than the rest of the ocean.

 

https://marinedebris.noaa.gov/file/2136/download?token=Ly7F-fPJ

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This story is a myth N.P.R. busted this story on there Sunday morning show a few months ago(to there credit they are very P.C.). If something was twice the size of Texas you could not avoid seeing

it .It is one of these things that people(alarmists) want to be true it is not. They (N.P.R.) traced the story to a person crossing the Pacific on a yacht and wrote a book about there experience .How some one on a boat could tell if something is twice the size of Texas is beyond me . Don't expect this story to go away it won't, facts don't matter to people with end of the worlds beliefs .

Facts and tangible proofs don't matter to those in the world that have blind delusions actually.

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Despite this being what comes up when you Google an image of "Pacific Garbage Patch"

 

1521794075PG.jpg

 

garbage-in-ocean.jpeg

 

the Great Pacific Garbage Patch isn't an endless dense pile of large floating debris. Large items visible from a ship's deck are uncommon.

 

See Why don't we ever see pictures of the floating island of garbage?

THIS is what prompted me make the OP. I now understand that the real problem is microplastics and the pictures that are published of the Pacific Garbage Patch are misleading. Why do they (advocates) do this? I think it works against them in the end. People read about this Texas size garbage patch and see the pictures and are horrified - then when real life experiences (i.e. cruising through It) fail to confirm what the pictures show, people doubt the whole thing. Global Warming advocates are guilty of the same thing. Instead of focusing on the fundamental problem, they tend to publicize the most extreme (and graphic) predictions. When an individual's everyday experience fails to confirm these predictions, the whole topic loses credibility. I sometimes think that the best way to stymie the acceptance of real concerns is for advocates to use alarmism to raise awareness.

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Facts and tangible proofs don't matter to those in the world that have blind delusions actually.

Not sure if you are giving me the ''Business '' or not but there are many false stories that stick around for a long time. In the 70s many thought and said that the great lakes had no fish in them ,they did and still do. Also in the 70s and 80s had tons of scare stories about ACID RAIN and how it would wipe out all fresh water fish in the U.S. 30 years later fishing is better than it has ever been. The end of the world is always out there for those looking for it.Take it from an old guy like me when ever some says something is a crisis it almost never is.

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THIS is what prompted me make the OP. I now understand that the real problem is microplastics and the pictures that are published of the Pacific Garbage Patch are misleading. Why do they (advocates) do this? I think it works against them in the end. People read about this Texas size garbage patch and see the pictures and are horrified - then when real life experiences (i.e. cruising through It) fail to confirm what the pictures show, people doubt the whole thing. Global Warming advocates are guilty of the same thing. Instead of focusing on the fundamental problem, they tend to publicize the most extreme (and graphic) predictions. When an individual's everyday experience fails to confirm these predictions, the whole topic loses credibility. I sometimes think that the best way to stymie the acceptance of real concerns is for advocates to use alarmism to raise awareness.

 

I feel it is less the advocates who do this and really the news. You will get this detailed talk by a researcher that goes for an hour and some news person will take one line leaving out all the context behind it and then it becomes alarmist news:eek:

 

I would suspect the same with these pictures. They all come from news sites or bloggers rather than researchers themselves. Even the whole size of Texas thing, most ocean researchers refer to density but for a news article four particles per square metre is not as interesting as "the size of Texas". In saying that we as the audience don't chose to watch a hour long discussion on the plastics pollution of the ocean. We chose to wait for the news bullet points and we will only tune in or read if the headline is intriguing enough:')

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Not sure if you are giving me the ''Business '' or not but there are many false stories that stick around for a long time. In the 70s many thought and said that the great lakes had no fish in them ,they did and still do. Also in the 70s and 80s had tons of scare stories about ACID RAIN and how it would wipe out all fresh water fish in the U.S. 30 years later fishing is better than it has ever been. The end of the world is always out there for those looking for it.Take it from an old guy like me when ever some says something is a crisis it almost never is.

 

It is true a lot of false stories stick around but this has been researched for nearly 20 years and the conclusions have been all identical. If a result can be consistently repeated that would usually make it a fact. As for calling it a crisis, that is harder to say:confused:. The fact is plastic consumption is only increasing, so the patch is not going to get smaller plus the micro plastics have already made it into our food chain not to mention chemicals from plastics have been found in high concentration in the flesh of fish and that just doesn't seem like a good thing:o. Maybe it isn't crisis but I feel the world would be a better place with less plastic in our oceans:D

Edited by ilikeanswers
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Not sure if you are giving me the ''Business '' or not but there are many false stories that stick around for a long time. In the 70s many thought and said that the great lakes had no fish in them ,they did and still do. Also in the 70s and 80s had tons of scare stories about ACID RAIN and how it would wipe out all fresh water fish in the U.S. 30 years later fishing is better than it has ever been. The end of the world is always out there for those looking for it.Take it from an old guy like me when ever some says something is a crisis it almost never is.

Crisis is subjective. There will always be alarmist out there that sound the alarm that might be uncalled for but it is wrong to assume all crises are false though many will try. There goes the baby out with the bath water.

Never mind my giving you your idea of business.

I have 3 trawlers in operation of of New England and have witnessed first hand some of the effects caused by this non existent scare story as you call it. My employee's spend hours weekly removing the crapola trapped in our nets.

That to me is a crisis that costs me profits every year and it is getting worse.

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Sailing the Java, Celebes and Sulu Seas, so not The Great Pacific Garbage Patch, but Captain Jonathan commented on a garbage patch in his March 3rd blog post:

 

"As we sail these waters it is disappointing to see how much flotsam there is in the water. We, as a company and corporation are so careful about the environmental ‘footprint’ we leave; our Management system is invested in all things ecological and yet, here we are, sailing through miles and miles of junk, deposited by those who either don’t possess the resources, just don’t think, or just don’t give a damn. So frustrating…….." http://captainjonathan.com/3rd-march-puerto-princesa-phillipines/

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