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Suggestions for a stopover to break up trip to Dubai from SC


Pearl64
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We are taking an Oceania cruise from Dubai to Barcelona in April 2019. We can leave from the following airports: GSP, ATL, or CLT. I am hoping to use miles for our flight to Dubai on either United or Delta in business class. The return will be from Barcelona on whichever airline we did not use on the way over. We could get by on the return flight to just use the Comfort Plus fare. I am looking at possibly breaking up the flight to Dubai but i really have not found anyplace that fits the bill at reducing the length of the flights to reasonable—possibly around 7 hours. I would like to stick With either Delta or United because we have miles with both of them. Code shares are fine. Return would be about May16 give or take a day. I am not keen on going to Paris especially if it is on AF. They cancelled our flight last Friday and never contacted us to say it was cancelled. We did get rerouted but it added an extra leg and 8 hours travel time. So, for you experts out there, can you give me some ideas to check out? I know it is too early for flights but I need to figure out what my possibilities are. Thank you.

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Lots to parse - let's take it a step at a time.

 

First...your desire for flight time segments of 7 hours or less. Even departing from JFK to AMS, you have a flight time of 7:20. TATL flights from ATL will run several hours longer....to AMS and CDG at least 8:45. So, just how important are those shorter segments, because you will need at least a double connect to get times under 8 hours.

 

Next, your desire to use FF miles for biz tickets. Just how flexible are you? Are you willing to take longer routings in order to use your miles? Recognize that you will have to use partners of DL and UA, since neither flies to DXB, and that includes AF if you want to use your SkyPesos. Otherwise, the only DL use would be through AMS on KLM - though you might be able to get something on Aeroflot or Saudia with a bunch of work.

 

Start by looking backwards from DXB and see what could get your there on Star and SkyTeam. Then, how would you get to that connection point from North America. Hypothetically, if you could find a routing of CLT-MSP-AMS-CDG-DXB...would you take it?

 

Personally, I'd be looking at AF into DXB if the equipment had their new business class seating, as I think it's better than KL's hard product. If using UA miles for that direction, you are most likely either going into DXB on LH through FRA - you could also just settle in for a long flight going through Toronto on AC. And I would not be wanting short segments in business - one of the true benefits of business on long itineraries is the upgraded seat that allow for true sleeping. Taking shorter segments kills the advantage of being able to sleep for an extended period - YYZ to DXB would allow for lots of rest, while double connecting will give you an experience where your sleep will be limited.

 

Lots for you to consider.

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Unless you are talking about a 24-48 hours layover I don't see the point. Its more hectic and tiring in my opinion to connect. Find the quickest flight possible. Especially if you can get business class.

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United does not fly into Dubai. United points can be used for the codeshares on Air Canada or Lufthansa.

 

Air Canada does fly from Toronto non-stop into Dubai. However it is only 3 days per week. They also fly into ATL and CLT. So that is probably your best bet.

 

Lufthansa (or their subsidiaries Swiss) are your other option. That would involve a transfer in Europe.

 

I agree with FlyerTalker, going for the Toronto flight gives you the most time to relate and get some sleep. Also last week AC rolled out their new Signature International Business class upgrade on all their wide-body aircraft. It now includes mattress pad on the seat and a few other enhancements. I think it is better than the Lufthansa offering just now.

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Unless you want to break up the trip with a 1 or 2 day stop in a European city, I wouldn't want to prolong the trip with a layover. Last year we flew non-stop JFK to Dubai on Emirates and we found it most comfortable.

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I know AA was not on your list, but they have a direct BCN-CLT flight during some parts of the year. I took it a couple years ago and it was wonderful avoiding the madhouse that the big north east airports can be (plus it was then only a 30 min or so flight home to CHS). Just another option to consider.

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I have been mulling over the suggestions. I see a connection in Europe as probable. I did check into Emirates. They wanted over $20,000 for a business class seat. The issue is this is not round trip but multicity. Return from BCN means hoing back to Dubai to JFK. Thats a lot of flying. Air Canada is a thought. How is their Premium Economy, just in case we can’t do business? I am not so worried about the Barcelona flight as it will be a relatively short one compared to going to Dubai. Connections through CDG on AF make me uncomfortable. We were to take AF home from Prague last week. They cancelled the flight but never contacted us. Delta still had it listed upon check in and the flight was cancelled at that time. I am not sure we could find alternative flights to Dubai. The former was coming home; this one is going to a cruise so trying to avoid issues if we can. We still have about a month before we need to decide. We cannot do this in regular economy. The body just won’t cooperate. Premium economy is a consideration if we dont have enough miles for business. Thanks for all the ideas.

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Because (a) you're still evaluating a lot of options and it's impossible to speculate on the "best" outcome when so many variables are in play, and (b) it's too early to book anything for next April/May anyway, all we can do is try to throw out some ideas and factors that hopefully will simplify your decision, rather than making it even more complicated.

 

Stopovers. A stopover is usually described as a stay of more than 24 hours in one place. But in the rules on many tickets (and the rules vary according to the specific fare class you've bought) sometimes the "stopover" window is shorter, particularly if connecting flights are available more quickly. In other words, sometimes a 12-hour layover between flights can be called a "stopover" if the next flight was actually 6 hours after you landed. Why is this language important? Because most tickets will make you pay extra for the stopover. It might be $50 or it might be $250. On award/mileage tickets, a 24 hour stopover will usually trigger the need to spend the full cost of the miles for the second leg. For example, say you want to use miles to get to Dubai with a 3-day stopover in, say, Munich. Your first award ticket will be to get you to Munich; you'll need an entirely separate award from Munich to Dubai, which will cost as many miles as the airline's award chart says it does. In almost every case total miles needed will be higher than if you didn't stop over, you just changed planes.

 

In addition, a stopover might cost you in extra taxes and fees. If you connect through a European airport ("connect" meaning just a plane change, maybe with a few hours between) often you're not liable for various fees and taxes that you WOULD have to pay if you stop over then resume the trip a day or two later. In some places, particularly the UK, these additional fees and taxes can amount to hundreds of dollars ON TOP of the additional cost in miles and/or ticket price.

 

Partners and codeshares. These are not the same thing. Airlines have partners - other airlines that cooperate and that will let you earn or use frequent flyer miles, things like that. Codeshares are a purely economic term when one airline lets another sell seats on the first airline's flight and allows the second airline to put its own (fictitious) flight number on the flight. (For example, United might sell you a seat on a plane operated by Lufthansa, for which Lufthansa lets United put UA XXXX on the ticket indicating it's a United flight, when it isn't.) Sometimes codeshare seats can be cheaper than comparable seats bought through the operating airline, but usually they're more expensive. Codesharing has NOTHING to do with the availability of award seats on a given plane; that decision is made solely by the operating airline, who may or may not make some award seats available for partners to use, whether the flight is codeshared or not.

 

East/west. Just a reminder that traveling from west to east (US > Europe/Middle East) is almost always significantly quicker than east to west, due to prevailing winds at high altitude. For North America to Europe, the eastbound flight is almost always an hour or more shorter than the westbound one, and the difference from North America to the Middle East is often longer; for example JFK-DXB nonstop is 12h 30m; DXB-JFK is 14h. So bear that in mind when making your decision. Although you'll be returning from Barcelona, you're going to have to add some additional "butt in seat" hours to the trip, not to mention having to clear US border controls when you land, possibly followed by a connection to get home. The east > west trip is often far more tiring than an overnight west > east one over the same distance.

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I need some additional advice. It looks as though my choices are narrowed down to the Star Alliance flights. We have enough miles for business class saver award. I know i may have to work with dates and what is available. The best option to me is CLT to Toronto on a CRJ100–not my favorite but will have to deal with it. Then either a 2 hour connect or 7 hour connect before the Air Canada flight to Dubai on the Dreamliner. The other choice is Luftansa CLT to MUnich to Frankfort to Dubai. I dont like that extra flight in Germany. There are some other connects but use Swiss Air through Zurich. So, which of the two options is the better as far as service and comfort? I think we will forgo trying to break up the trip as it doesn't accomplish any easier travel experience. Also what would be a comfortable connect time in Toronto and the two German airports? At least in Toronto we would understand the signage. I did look into Emirates but it was way out of my price range. I understand i may have to tske what i can get but i like to know which of the options is better.

 

Thank you all for your help.

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Unless you are talking about a 24-48 hours layover I don't see the point. Its more hectic and tiring in my opinion to connect. Find the quickest flight possible. Especially if you can get business class.
I agree i would always recommend a non-stop flight.

Dubai has lots to offer and 2-3 nights would easily get you over your jet lag which is always worse when flying West to East.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

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At least in Toronto we would understand the signage.

 

Trust me....there is plenty of English language signage in most every international airport around the globe. Even the smaller ones.

 

Not quite sure why so many people think that they won't be able to find their way around airports outside of North America. I've had signs in English throughout the world, including some small airports in Asia and elsewhere.

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Flyer Talker,

Yes, we have always managed in foreign airports. I know there is signage in English. I think it is the extra leg and connections in Germany. I have read that Frankfort can be a challenge but i could be wrong.

 

My question is about Air Canada vs Luftansa. Is one preferable to the other? Or do the connections and times trump everything?

 

Again, I thank those of you who are more knowledgeable about flights than I am.

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At least in Toronto we would understand the signage.

 

we have always managed in foreign airports. I know there is signage in English.

 

I'm confused. First you said you would understand the signage in Toronto, implying that you would not understand it in other countries; then you said you knew foreign airports have signage in English. Is there some aspect of airport signage, other than English, that you are concerned about?

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I apologize for my statement about airport signage. At this time i don't know the connection time. We usually allow sufficient time for connections but we may have a tight connection that would necessitate our moving quickly through the airport. We are not familiar with either German airport. We would need to go through passport control and possible security. So, let’s move on from this issue and focus on the main one: which is a better product—AC or Luftansa. We have flown neither so am looking at suggestions. If it is a tossup, just tell me. I also understand that the availability of business saver award flights will dictate everything. I am just looking at my options. Thank you for your thoughts on the two possibilities.

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I apologize for my statement about airport signage. At this time i don't know the connection time. We usually allow sufficient time for connections but we may have a tight connection that would necessitate our moving quickly through the airport. We are not familiar with either German airport. We would need to go through passport control and possible security. So, let’s move on from this issue and focus on the main one: which is a better product—AC or Luftansa. We have flown neither so am looking at suggestions. If it is a tossup, just tell me. I also understand that the availability of business saver award flights will dictate everything. I am just looking at my options. Thank you for your thoughts on the two possibilities.

 

I have done AC in Economy, Premium Economy and International Business. I have done Lufthansa in Premium Economy and regular Economy.

 

They are similar. The Premium Economy product on AC I would say is slightly better but very close. In both cases you get an enhance meal, similar to what is served on a domestic Business (called First class in the US). Seats are very similar.

 

If you go the International Business Class it is a completely different experience. The seat opens into a bed. There is an mult-course meal. etc. When its time to go to sleep they pull out a mattress pad that goes on the seat.

 

As for transferring in Toronto, Canada is bilingual, all signs and announcements will be in both English and French. Coming from the US connecting internal, there is no additional security check, just an ID check and you will go into the international gate area.

 

Coming back to the US, you will pre-clear US customs in Toronto, your bags will automatically by transferred for you, much simpler than connecting from an international flight to domestic at a US airport.

 

The gate area for international departures is nice, lots of amenities. When your coming back, there is two gate area for flights heading to the US, one is quite nice, the other is crowded and usually where the very small aircraft depart from.

 

If you decided to go Premium Economy, and airport lounge access is important to you, there is a paid Plaza Premium lounge in both the international and US gate area.

 

If you are doing Business class, then you get complimentary access into the Maple leaf lounge. For the international departure, there is both the Maple Leaf Lounge, Air Canada Signature Lounge. Signature lounge is more like a high-end restaurant layout, however it is restricted to only fully paid International Business class.

As for transferring in Germany. It is fine. Frankfurt is a very big airport that was built slowly over many years. It is a bit more complex to navigate. Munich is a new terminal, much cleaner layout. European passport control is simple and efficient. The lounges are nice.

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You are looking for two business class award tickets on the same flight and you seem to think it is just as simple as ringing up the airline and you magically get to pick your flights/times/days. Finding one ticket in a premium cabin is hard enough finding two during peak travel time is no easy feat. You will be lucky to cobble together an itinerary that starts and ends where you would like.

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Thank you NOLA and 6rug....I held back because of the likelihood that I'd be branded as "mean".

 

To the OP: It's nice to be thinking of what you might want. The truth is...the signage in the airports should be the least of your concerns. The extra segment from MUC to FRA should be inconsequential. For the truth is:

 

Take what you can get and be happy with it. Unless you have access to some paid search tools, know the various backdoor research paths, and are willing to put in a bunch of time for trial and error searching and hold times on phones waiting for agents, you are at best a 25% winner at getting what you want. But you're a savvy international traveller, so you should have no problem upping those numbers.

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I am trying to remain calm. For some reason today i am being chastised for asking questions. I will know not to do that in the future. I understand that i have to take what i can get. It is not my usual practice to call up an airline and demand certain flights or connections. I don't know where you got that idea, NOLA. I may not like it but i like to see what my options are so i can make an acceptable plan. I do try to be reasonable. What is reasonable to some is not reasonable to someone else.

 

This thread is now closed. Thank you.

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Pearl...while things haven’t opened up for your dates, there does appear to be decent business saver availability offered on Air Canada in March out of Toronto. So there is hope (which no doubt you have seen in test runs for pretend dates, because you knew aircraft)....but you must remain exceedingly flexible. Work on finding the Toronto availability on Air Canada and work back from there to your airports. Be open to spending a night in Toronto the night before the flight (buying a cheap economy one way if necessary). You might also try to see if there is anything from IAD or EWR.

 

Also, be open to spending more time in Dubai then would be optimal. You might also check Abu Dhabi as a potential destination and car transfer to Dubai for the cruise.

 

If the BCN portion becomes problematic, you always have the option of doing included O air for just that portion with an upgrade to PE (taking the air credit for just the Dubai flight). The more options you leave yourself, the more likelihood for success in finding the saver tickets for the nasty flight.

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I am trying to remain calm. For some reason today i am being chastised for asking questions. I will know not to do that in the future. I understand that i have to take what i can get. It is not my usual practice to call up an airline and demand certain flights or connections. I don't know where you got that idea, NOLA. I may not like it but i like to see what my options are so i can make an acceptable plan. I do try to be reasonable. What is reasonable to some is not reasonable to someone else.

 

This thread is now closed. Thank you.

Don't get so huffy, no one said you were demanding anything. I am just trying to set you up for the reality of booking international peak travel destination award tickets. I am a United million miler with elite status who has been playing the mileage game since 2000 and even I have problems finding even one ticket on ANY route while trying to connect with a cruise. It takes hours of research and plenty of hang up and call back as seats appear and disappear in the time it takes to get an itinerary put together. Being able to pick amongst multiple connection points and plane types is just not reality.
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+1

 

FFT is not the best place for connections.

 

:D

 

An airline employee friend told us Schiphol airport Amsterdam was bad for losing luggage so we have always avoided it.

 

Somebody didn't get the joke. And believes in the authority of single data points.

 

 

FrankFURT Germany's airport is FRA. FrankFORT Kentucky's airport is FFT.

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