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Dog on ship, continued


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Having read most of these thirteen pages of posts I feel I need to tell about two I know of. First is a woman I know that has a service dog that happens to be a bull terrier. She has diabetes and the dog is able to detect when her sugar is dangerously low and alerts her by licking her face if she is seated, or standing directly in front of her and staring up at her. This dog certainly doesn't lookm like what you would expect a service dog to look like. Another situation occured in a local restaurant when a veteran who suffers from extreme PTSD was at the buffet line an employee told him his service dog (a black Lab) was not allowed because he was not blind and therefore it could not be a true service dog. The dog was trained to alert the man when someone was approaching from behind or in his blind spot. The veteran left the restaurant and called the local paper the next day. Busuness really suffered after the article was published. Even after the owner wrote a letter to the editor apologizing for the unfortunate incident. I believe the business hasn't fully recovered.

 

But I don't like little munchkin dogs being called emotional support animals. To me they are just spoiled pampered pets.

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A young woman at a festival last weekend had a bulldog with a service vest. I smiled at it and said hi and she told me I could pet it. I responded, "Service dogs are working animals and need to focus on their trained duties, but thanks." She seemed dumbfounded by my reply. There's no way that bulldog is a real service dog.

 

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Agree with your post. If the bulldog was a true service dog, the owner would never allow someone else to pet it.

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Why are RCCL ships allowing this anyway?...They are foreign flagged and as such have no obligation to comply with ADA or other American regulations.

 

I am very P.Oed at the very idea of passengers abusing this. I wish the Wounded Vets and other groups would speak out against this as many vets have LEGITIMATE need for emotional support animals ...and this type abuse might cause them to be lumped in with the knuckleheads.

 

Doug

 

 

https://www.adatitleiii.com/2015/08/justice-department-applies-ada-title-iii-to-carnivals-cruise-ships-website-and-mobile-app-in-a-landmark-settlement/

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  • 2 weeks later...
Agree with you and basically that is what I said in my post.

 

Business, housing complexes etc by law must follow the ADA act. If they don't they can/will suffer the consequences, in the forms of fines etc. However, the average business owner doesn't know the differences between the two and would rather welcome all pets than face the consequences. This is where people have taken advantage of the ESA system and over time it has gotten worse over the last few years.”

 

The irony is by law cannot ask for proof as my understanding. So all those kits seem to be getting people from there money, I don't have an issue. The problem is it is almost impossible to tell if it's a ESA vs "real" service animal. Unless they brag that it's just to take Fido on the cruise. Is my overall point.

 

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For service animals they are allowed to ask "is it a service animal," and "what service does it perform." Emotional support you can ask and deny access.

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We saw that at Costco in La Quinta last week. I asked the person checking Costco Cards at the door about it. She said only Service Dogs and they have to show paperwork. Good for Costco! wish other establishments would follow this.

 

As a disabled Service Dog handler I find this Costo's actions funny. Those of us who are experienced handlers and advocates know that the biggest red flag aside from the dog behaving aggressively is people who start pulling out paperwork to 'prove' their dog is a Service Dog. That Costco needs to train their employees. They absolutely can not require a disabled customer give them any sort of paperwork to prove their dog is a Service Dog. First of all, anyone can buy, or even print their own BS paperwork. Second, can you imagine how disabled people who are just trying to get through their day the best they can with their medical assistive device would feel if they had to prove their device, be it a Service Dog, a wheelchair, a cane, an oxygen tank, what have you, was legitimate, by showing paperwork each time they entered a building? The laws are written the way they are so that those of us who are disabled and use the assistance of a Service Dog can get through our lives as 'normally' as possible. Are they perfect? No way? Would it be better for us if there were some nationally recognized database where we COULD get ID after proving our dogs were properly trained? In some ways, yes... It would save our highly trained animals from being attacked by the untrained pets that fakers try to pass off as Service Dogs, but of more concern to day to day life, it would put undue strain on us, having to prove our dogs are trained when all we want to do is buy our eggs and go home. It's not so difficult for me as I am a full time wheelchair user and my disability is obvious, and my Kali doesn't look like a strange breed to have as a Service Dog so I don't tend to get grilled at the door on a regular basis but when people think about it from the point of view of someone with a Diabetic Alert Dog that happens to be a Chihuahua can you imagine what their life would be like if they had to prove their legitimacy as a team every time they stepped through a new door? Laws are already in place to protect business and the general public from fakers, they need to be enforced. What those of us who are disabled DON'T need is even more hassle added to our daily lives and I am SO happy we have the ADA to protect us from being singled out the way this Costco is doing.

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One of my wifes friends totes her dog everywhere and openly BRAGS about the whole fake service vest thing. Very entitled. Makes up stories to not pay for dogs airfare and then takes dog into high end restaurants and posts photos and videos of feeing dog from table. Only thing dog is trained to do is get social media likes. This is what the world has become.

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I understand that conundrum, especially since the ADA doesn’t require certification, nor does it require the dog is professionally trained, versus the owner training the dog themselves for a specific task. At some point, the ADA law is going to have to include something (a registry...something) to indicate it’s a real service dog.

 

Unfortunately, the way our government is set up right now, I’m sure it’s not a priority. So until it becomes a priority, it’s going to have to sit upon the shoulders of business to be diligent in following the law.

 

 

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There are indeed already laws in place giving businesses the right to remove a Service Dog (or someone who claims their dog is a Service Dog) that is barking, growling, eliminating indoors, but unfortunately most business owners and managers don't understand their rights. As a result, those of us who are legitimate Service Dog handlers are going to end up having to be subjected to more and more hoops to jump through. The burden of people breaking the law by faking Service Dogs currently falls upon business owners and legitimate Service Dog teams no matter how you slice it. I don't think adding laws that will further hamper legitimate disabled Service Dog handlers is the answer. I think much, MUCH more serious consequences for faking a Service Dog may be the best route here.

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One of my wifes friends totes her dog everywhere and openly BRAGS about the whole fake service vest thing. Very entitled. Makes up stories to not pay for dogs airfare and then takes dog into high end restaurants and posts photos and videos of feeing dog from table. Only thing dog is trained to do is get social media likes. This is what the world has become.

 

I can't begin to express how disturbing people like this are to those of us with Service Dogs. When we enter that same restaurant where someone like this has their little pet and it starts barking and growling at our Service Dog, even though our dogs are well trained then CAN become distracted. Not a disaster for me, my dog is a physical assistance dog, I can simply have her re-focus if she gets distracted, and go about my day. However, this can absolutely be life threatening for someone whose Service Dog is a medical alert dog. A missed alert can be absolutely detrimental. People who bring a fake Service Dog into a public place are risking the health and perhaps LIFE of someone with a real Service Dog, not to mention all the fakes who have attacked real Service Dogs (and in a few cases, even humans!) I beg of you to ask your wife to read this and then maybe have a chat with her friend.

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I can't begin to express how disturbing people like this are to those of us with Service Dogs. When we enter that same restaurant where someone like this has their little pet and it starts barking and growling at our Service Dog, even though our dogs are well trained then CAN become distracted. Not a disaster for me, my dog is a physical assistance dog, I can simply have her re-focus if she gets distracted, and go about my day. However, this can absolutely be life threatening for someone whose Service Dog is a medical alert dog. A missed alert can be absolutely detrimental. People who bring a fake Service Dog into a public place are risking the health and perhaps LIFE of someone with a real Service Dog, not to mention all the fakes who have attacked real Service Dogs (and in a few cases, even humans!) I beg of you to ask your wife to read this and then maybe have a chat with her friend.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I didn't read through all 14 pages...but are these people paying for these dogs to come on the ship? I would imagine if they had to pay full fare for a dog they certainly wouldn't bring it.

No. That would actually be illegal.

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Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

Edited by Dennis#1
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I didn't read through all 14 pages...but are these people paying for these dogs to come on the ship? I would imagine if they had to pay full fare for a dog they certainly wouldn't bring it.

 

 

 

I do not know about a fee, but as I understand it from someone who legitimately needs her service dog (I cannot remember if it is seeing-eye or seizure-detecting, but it was one of the actual (read: not “emotional support”) medical reason dogs) there is a ton of paperwork to be able to take it - at least if you plan to go off-ship because of travel regulations for animals.

 

 

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Thanks for the post--interesting reading. It appears that the airlines are fearful of being sued by Fido's "mama" because she needs to pet Fido in flight--and rightly so: many pet mama's would sue over being denied boarding with "precious." (Clearly, service dogs are not in the same category.) Meanwhile, the majority of flyers must put up with "precious" as a flight companion.

I can certainly see why the airlines would like some help from federal legislation to define the boundaries.

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There is a big difference between a service animal and a comfort animal. Service animals go through thousands of dollars of training to learn to ignore outside distractions, indicate when they need to relief themselves, in addition to the service they provide. This is not the case with a comfort animal. It's a label they apply that has no validation at all.

 

You don't have to go far to find a doctor who will write a note saying you need to bring your pet along with me wherever I go. Like peacock lady.

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Me too.[/quote

 

I confronted the manager of our local grocery store regarding a woman in the store with two dogs, sitting on pillows in the food section of a shopping cart. :( :( The manager told the woman her dogs needed to be on a leash on the floor. :(

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I didn't read through all 14 pages...but are these people paying for these dogs to come on the ship? I would imagine if they had to pay full fare for a dog they certainly wouldn't bring it.

 

The reason they bring them is because they don't want to pay to board them in a kennel. And they have no problem admitting it.

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IF and I do mean IF this actually happened, and the guest was AWARE that it happened, I would have simply said "Excuse me, do you need help cleaning this up?" If that did not get their attention, I would have simply acted like an adult, asked guest services for a paper towel, and helped dispose of it, because I would not want anyone to accidentally step in it, and spread it around.

 

Just because some seem to find it hard to adult, (person not picking up after their dog) does not mean it has to rub off on me.

 

Awesome attitude! Applauding that! Jo

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The reason they bring them is because they don't want to pay to board them in a kennel. And they have no problem admitting it.

Agree. With the daily price that kennels charge, I am surprised there are not more dogs on cruise ships.

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  • 1 month later...
As a disabled Service Dog handler I find this Costo's actions funny. Those of us who are experienced handlers and advocates know that the biggest red flag aside from the dog behaving aggressively is people who start pulling out paperwork to 'prove' their dog is a Service Dog. That Costco needs to train their employees. They absolutely can not require a disabled customer give them any sort of paperwork to prove their dog is a Service Dog. First of all, anyone can buy, or even print their own BS paperwork. Second, can you imagine how disabled people who are just trying to get through their day the best they can with their medical assistive device would feel if they had to prove their device, be it a Service Dog, a wheelchair, a cane, an oxygen tank, what have you, was legitimate, by showing paperwork each time they entered a building? The laws are written the way they are so that those of us who are disabled and use the assistance of a Service Dog can get through our lives as 'normally' as possible. Are they perfect? No way? Would it be better for us if there were some nationally recognized database where we COULD get ID after proving our dogs were properly trained? In some ways, yes... It would save our highly trained animals from being attacked by the untrained pets that fakers try to pass off as Service Dogs, but of more concern to day to day life, it would put undue strain on us, having to prove our dogs are trained when all we want to do is buy our eggs and go home. It's not so difficult for me as I am a full time wheelchair user and my disability is obvious, and my Kali doesn't look like a strange breed to have as a Service Dog so I don't tend to get grilled at the door on a regular basis but when people think about it from the point of view of someone with a Diabetic Alert Dog that happens to be a Chihuahua can you imagine what their life would be like if they had to prove their legitimacy as a team every time they stepped through a new door? Laws are already in place to protect business and the general public from fakers, they need to be enforced. What those of us who are disabled DON'T need is even more hassle added to our daily lives and I am SO happy we have the ADA to protect us from being singled out the way this Costco is doing.

 

It would probably be helpful to have official paperwork and/or certification. Hopefully those who need it will see the benefit instead of taking it as some kind of personal attack and feeling like it makes them a victim. People need Id. to enter certain places (casino, R-movie, etc.), or to purchase certain items, operate a vehicle, etc. So carrying an additional card for your animal to enter a place normally restricted to animals doesn't seem too imposing. And more importantly, if it is truly regulated, then the imposters won't keep making a mockery of needed service animals by being a nuisance to everyone else. There ought to be strict criteria to even issue service animal certification (if there ever becomes such a thing). In addition, there needs to be either an annual re-certification, or periodic evaluations done either as a pop-up or undercover the same way cities handle food inspections. This way, any doctor who decides to be "for sale" to any yahoo that wants a service animal card, will be exposed. Unlike how it is now where people can just ask their doctor to provide the necessary emotional support animal paperwork.

 

 

have ordinances that require everyone over the age of 15 to carry some for of state issued ID and provide it on demand from an officer.

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I am fine with service dogs. I believe they do enable people to be comfortable in situations they would otherwise not try. I understand some service dog arrangements are scams, and that I will never know the difference. I can deal with that. Dogs are healing and helpful beings. I love them all. I have 3, who stay home with a house sitter when I cruise--so my only reservation is how much I miss my own dogs when I see a service dog. Bless them all.

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