More fake service dog nonsense

Since most ships are flagged in non US countries, are they obligated to follow ADA rules?

 

 

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When they use US ports, yes

So called, self proclaimed "Comfort animals" don't fall under ADA regulations.

Agreed, but my question still stands. Are they obligated to follow ADA rules?

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If that is true' date=' then Royal has erred or the owner has lied.

 

Royal cannot require any documentation proving an animal is a service animal. They can only ask...period.

 

If people are willing to lie, Royal can't do anything...zero..

 

The ADA is clear.[/quote']

 

And that's why ADA must be Changed!

 

Mike

When they use US ports, yes

Well, that sucks.

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Well, that sucks.

 

 

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It sucks unless you're disabled :) without the ADA I'm not even sure cruise lines would offer wheelchair accessible cabins. They're not many as it is and they take up valuable space

Agreed, but my question still stands. Are they obligated to follow ADA rules?

 

 

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To an extent. They are required to provide "reasonably obtainable accessibility", meaning that older ships do not have to meet all accessibility rules if it would require a major reconstruction of the ship. And SOLAS trumps ADA with regards to accessibility. They are not allowed to discriminate against the disabled when it comes to booking cabins, and have to provide some accessible cabins. However, the SCOTUS has ruled that the "internal policies and procedures" of foreign flag cruise ships do not fall under the ADA, so for instance, if CLIA were to have its members adopt a "service animal code of conduct" specifying types of behavior that would not be allowed, or making restrictions on when and where a service animal could go (and even in the US there are exceptions to universal access for service animals, such as sections of dormitories set aside for those with pet allergies, or sections of zoos where the dogs would disturb the animals), then even if these policies were more restrictive than the ADA, it would still be legal. SCOTUS ruled that this exemption to the ADA could only be closed by act of Congress, specifically mentioning foreign flag cruise ships in the ADA.

It sucks unless you're disabled :) without the ADA I'm not even sure cruise lines would offer wheelchair accessible cabins. They're not many as it is and they take up valuable space

You're right, there. The problem is not that the cruise lines have to follow the ADA with regards to service animals, the problem is with the wording of the ADA, and the legal system in the US that allows someone to bring suit even for an obviously frivolous suit (suing that they were not allowed in premises with a fake service animal) which costs the business or cruise line to spend money to defend themselves.

We flew to Florida in January and there were 16 dogs and cats on the flight. We boarded early because my sister is disabled and requires a wheelchair to board and disembark. I commented to the attendant as we walked across the airport that I had never seen so many animals and he said that he had once counted 42 on one flight -- more than 25% of the people on that flight had pets.

My dog gets kenneled when we go on vacation. It is my understanding that these animals onboard the ship are traveling free. If I spend $50 to get a vest and online certification then I can save $25/day boarding fee at the local kennel. It's a profit of $125 per dog for a 7 day cruise. If I bring 8 dogs, I can save $1000. If I bring enough dogs, I can cruise for free.

When they use US ports, yes

Wrong

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Its really easy to get the vests. TOO EASY!

Wrong

 

 

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Please provide the details on how that statement is wrong.

Oh yay! Another “I don’t know what a service animal is” and “I’ll hate on people with disabilities!” thread!!!

on NOS now and an entitled buffoon walking around w his dog under his arm encouraging people to pet the dog. Not even one of those Amazon vests or pretending it’s a service dog. Got in an elevator w us and puts dog in my sons face. No thanks. Not sure who smelt worse the dog or the guy. Stay home w your “pets” not everyone thinks it’s cute. RCI really needs to get a backbone about this

That dog might very well be a dog with the ability to sense a seizure coming on. If only John Travolta’s son had had one; the dog might have alerted him to a seizure and let the young man know to get to a safe place so he didn’t die while having a seizure.

That dog might sense the man’s blood sugar swings before his pump can or before he thinks to check. This is life saving, especially on a ship where quick access to a hospital isn’t there. I met a couple with three BIG dogs, 2 of which they had found, accidentally, could sense their TBI-disabled veteran type 1 diabetic son’s glucose swings. The two came into their room one night insisting they get up, and brought them to their son’s room. He was dangerously low while he was sleeping. The dogs saved his life.

A service dog belongs to the person. If a person doesn’t mind others letting the service dog, that’s up to the owner. It doesn’t make it any less a service dog.

Don’t pet a seeing eye dog. Don’t let an animal helping it’s paralyzed owner. Don’t pet any dog whose owner isn’t allowing it!

But don’t think that being allowed to pet a dog makes it NOT a working dog.

What happened to the good ole days when there were Guide Dogs/Service Dogs ONLY, and they were for the (blind/visually impaired), and that was it!!:confused:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:confused:

Um, those days were done once we happily realized that animals could do SO much more and help in other ways. Aren’t you glad for that? Isn’t that awesome?

A dog that can sense blood sugar swings?

A dog that can be trained to help it’s PTSD-suffering owner in specific ways? (This is different than an ESA whose mere presence helps)

How cool is THAT???

What happened is people realised that animals could do way more than that, and unfortunately others realised that they could take advantage of that.

 

 

 

Dogas can sense things we can’t, by small primarily.

 

 

 

Diabetes

 

Epilepsy

 

 

 

And are great at helping deal with PTSD, Depression, anxiety and a multitude of other problems

Yes.

Except I don’t care about the few people who supposedly take advantage.

All it would really take is serious certification.

So you want to put roadblocks in the way of disabled people getting the help they need? How...sweet? of you???

The airlines are starting to catch on now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And furthermore:

 

 

 

 

 

 



 



 

All that did was get info ahead of time' date=' FYI. It was a tiny change.

Part of the problem is that there is no official certification or vests. That is why you can get your dog certified for $50 online and buy them a vest on Amazon.

 

 

 

The main issue seems to be with separating service animals that are trained to perform an actual service, which the ADA laws cover, and emotional support animals, which are not trained to provide a service beyond being a pet and are therefore not covered by ADA. Companies just seem to be unwilling to figure this out.

But there’s no vest required. So of course there aren’t official vests. Not everyone wants their service dogs to wear them. Not everyone would be able to afford them.

For those who do want the vests, isn’t it nice they have options of style and cost available to them?

And I’m glad to keep yet another bit of red tape away from people with disabilities.

If that is true' date=' then Royal has erred or the owner has lied.

 

 

 

Royal cannot require any documentation proving an animal is a service animal. They can only ask...period.

 

 

 

If people are willing to lie, Royal can't do anything...zero..

 

 

 

The ADA is clear.[/quote']

 

 

And thank goodness.

 

Because they are afraid of getting sued and the bad PR that would follow, even if the animal is a fake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the problems is that you can go online and buy certificates and vests with nothing needed other than a credit card that will clear.

 

 

Except that no company has ever lost such a suit from what I know.

 

All they have to do is show how the animal behaved improperly, to such an extent that a human behaving that way would be kicked out. Easy. As long as the company’s employees are following the rules this isn’t an issue.

 

Nicely presented. As a side note, even the Veterans Admin. does NOT recognize "emotional support animals" as "service animal."

 

 

Um, and thank goodness, since they aren’t the same thing.

 

Here’s an explanation using PTSD.

 

A service animal is trained to do a specific task to help the person. To distract them, to bring them something needed, etc.

 

An ESA’s presence is all that’s needed; they dont do a task.

 

Service dogs (and miniature horses I believe) are service animals under the ada.

 

Emotional support animals are different, and are not service animals.

 

You're right, there. The problem is not that the cruise lines have to follow the ADA with regards to service animals, the problem is with the wording of the ADA, and the legal system in the US that allows someone to bring suit even for an obviously frivolous suit (suing that they were not allowed in premises with a fake service animal) which costs the business or cruise line to spend money to defend themselves.

 

 

How many of those have happened? How many have been successful?

 

Its really easy to get the vests. TOO EASY!

 

 

So?

 

A vest isn’t the sign of a service animal. And some don’t have vests.

The best is the one I saw all “dressed up’ being wheeled around the windjammer in a baby umbrella stroller. Thinking I was going to see a darling baby in the stroller, I stopped to look and was greeted with a growl. Needless to say, I walked away rather briskly and then couldn’t stop laughing at such a site:)

Happy cruising!

Oh yay! Another “I don’t know what a service animal is” and “I’ll hate on people with disabilities!” thread!!!

 

 

 

 

That dog might very well be a dog with the ability to sense a seizure coming on. If only John Travolta’s son had had one; the dog might have alerted him to a seizure and let the young man know to get to a safe place so he didn’t die while having a seizure.

 

That dog might sense the man’s blood sugar swings before his pump can or before he thinks to check. This is life saving, especially on a ship where quick access to a hospital isn’t there. I met a couple with three BIG dogs, 2 of which they had found, accidentally, could sense their TBI-disabled veteran type 1 diabetic son’s glucose swings. The two came into their room one night insisting they get up, and brought them to their son’s room. He was dangerously low while he was sleeping. The dogs saved his life.

 

A service dog belongs to the person. If a person doesn’t mind others letting the service dog, that’s up to the owner. It doesn’t make it any less a service dog.

 

Don’t pet a seeing eye dog. Don’t let an animal helping it’s paralyzed owner. Don’t pet any dog whose owner isn’t allowing it!

 

But don’t think that being allowed to pet a dog makes it NOT a working dog.

 

 

 

 

Um, those days were done once we happily realized that animals could do SO much more and help in other ways. Aren’t you glad for that? Isn’t that awesome?

 

A dog that can sense blood sugar swings?

A dog that can be trained to help it’s PTSD-suffering owner in specific ways? (This is different than an ESA whose mere presence helps)

 

How cool is THAT???

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Except I don’t care about the few people who supposedly take advantage.

 

 

 

 

So you want to put roadblocks in the way of disabled people getting the help they need? How...sweet? of you???

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that did was get info ahead of time, FYI. It was a tiny change.

 

 

 

 

But there’s no vest required. So of course there aren’t official vests. Not everyone wants their service dogs to wear them. Not everyone would be able to afford them.

 

For those who do want the vests, isn’t it nice they have options of style and cost available to them?

 

And I’m glad to keep yet another bit of red tape away from people with disabilities.

 

 

 

 

And thank goodness.

 

 

 

 

Except that no company has ever lost such a suit from what I know.

 

All they have to do is show how the animal behaved improperly, to such an extent that a human behaving that way would be kicked out. Easy. As long as the company’s employees are following the rules this isn’t an issue.

 

 

 

 

Um, and thank goodness, since they aren’t the same thing.

 

Here’s an explanation using PTSD.

 

A service animal is trained to do a specific task to help the person. To distract them, to bring them something needed, etc.

 

An ESA’s presence is all that’s needed; they dont do a task.

 

Service dogs (and miniature horses I believe) are service animals under the ada.

 

Emotional support animals are different, and are not service animals.

 

 

 

 

How many of those have happened? How many have been successful?

 

 

 

 

So?

 

A vest isn’t the sign of a service animal. And some don’t have vests.

Here in Minnesota there is a proposed law making it ileagal to pass a pet off as a service dog and guess who are the most vocal people about it??? Disabled people with real service dogs. The first offense is $100 dollar fine. I think the only way this problem will be corrected is if Doctors are held accountable if these untrained dogs bite someone.

I would think the cruise line would be afraid of getting sued and the bad PR if a passenger was bit by one these "service dogs" or ESA's. We need to have more strict certifications.

If a person is anxious and needs to bring a "comfort pet" they should stay home. I have anxiety and my dog "comforts" me but it doesn't mean I am bringing her to every place where I may have an anxiety attack. I have learned to deal with my anxiety with non medicated ways and without using my dog.

I'm sure there are people out there who seriously need to have an ESA with them for medical conditions, but unfortunately this "perk" of allowing these animals on board is being taken advantage of.

Question: Where do these dogs go to relieve themselves on the ship?

 

Question: Where do these dogs go to relieve themselves on the ship?

A "Service dog" has a special area that they're trained to use.

A so called "Comfort dog" goes anywhere it wants.

As the problem grows, more states are taking action by creating laws against "fake Service Animals". Here's what Petguide has to say on the subject:

Generally speaking, though, advocates for those with disabilities and service dogs have a long-term goal in mind–that of national certification and registry for legitimate service dogs.

 

Here are the 19 states that have laws that regarding fake service animals:

• Florida
  
• California
  
• Colorado
  
• Idaho
  
• Kansas
  
• Maine
  
• Michigan
  
• Missouri
  
• Nebraska
  
• Nevada
  
• New Hampshire
  
• New Jersey
  
• New Mexico
  
• New York
  
• North Carolina
  
• Texas
  
• Utah
  
• Virginia
  
• Washington
  

http://www.petguide.com/blog/dog/states-cracking-use-fake-service-dogs/

Nothing is going to change with this the cruise lines, they are very scared of lawsuits in general. They are even more scared of them when a Government agency is behind the lawsuit.

People can post here forever and it will have no effects, the only effect will be when the Federal Law is changed.

What happened to the good ole days when there were Guide Dogs/Service Dogs ONLY, and they were for the (blind/visually impaired), and that was it!!:confused:

Um, those days were done once we happily realized that animals could do SO much more and help in other ways. Aren’t you glad for that? Isn’t that awesome?

 

A dog that can sense blood sugar swings?

A dog that can be trained to help it’s PTSD-suffering owner in specific ways? (This is different than an ESA whose mere presence helps)

How cool is THAT???

Um, not very cool, not awesome & no, I'm not happy with that because much of what you listed is sadly used by a huge percentage of people as an excuse in today's world simply to obtain that dog. What is next, a comfort dog specifically used to assist someone with a runny nose??

:confused:

The dog owner doesn't care about your issue or to people who are allergic to dogs. I was attacked by a dog when I was young so I don't trust dogs, I am also allergic to them. That however is our problem.

This touches on my thoughts: What about people who are allergic to dogs? And some people are BADLY allergic. Yet they're riding in the elevator with someone else's fake support dog? Seems like a matter of conflicting interests.

I adore my dog, but he would not be happy on a ship. He loves to explore the back yard alone for hours, to lie in the grass, to run, to go on walks. He would be most miserable on a ship.

The best is the one I saw all “dressed up’ being wheeled around the windjammer in a baby umbrella stroller. Thinking I was going to see a darling baby in the stroller, I stopped to look and was greeted with a growl. Needless to say, I walked away rather briskly and then couldn’t stop laughing at such a site:)

 

Happy cruising!

Perhaps the parents had lost an infant and it was a therapy dog.

I applaud the airlines for finally coming down on the whole pet issue.

RCCL seems to be the most lax in enforcing their own “no pets” regulations.

Not looking at RCCL cruises as a result. Until they begin turning people with their pets away at embarkation, people will continue to abuse the regulation. I believe that’s the reason you see so many pets on RCCL ships.

I’ve never seen a pet on NCL, MSC, CCL, HAL, cruises.

on NOS now and an entitled buffoon walking around w his dog under his arm encouraging people to pet the dog. Not even one of those Amazon vests or pretending it’s a service dog. Got in an elevator w us and puts dog in my sons face. No thanks. Not sure who smelt worse the dog or the guy. Stay home w your “pets” not everyone thinks it’s cute. RCI really needs to get a backbone about this

PLEASE email Mr Bailey's office before you get off the ship. Also talk to the Guest Services manager on board relating your experience.

PLEASE email Mr Bailey's office before you get off the ship. Also talk to the Guest Services manager on board relating your experience.

I second this. Enough of this nonsense.