$3.00 difference

Suites should pay no added service fees over a standard cabin.

I disagree with this part. While I can disagree with you on DSC and debate that back and forth, there is a valid reason for the higher suite gratuity for those who agree to pay the DSC.

And no, it is not because your cabin is bigger. NCL has a Haven area available to suite guests, this area has additional staff that are solely for the suite guests.

Now, I honestly don't know how NCL breaks down tips. I can tell you they don't include security staff in the DSC. But I am going to say that the additional staff is the reason that NCL has a higher DSC for suite guests. That and because they can.

Spot on. The price of a suite on NCL is so high over a non-suite that charging additional Discretionary Service Charge is simply gouging by NCL because they can.

Thank you it is nice to see another who understands what is really going on here. By the way I love your signature posting. Permission to copy a great idea.

And as it clear says anyone can opt out of the payment. Why does it say this? Because they need to make it appear to be a tip and not a servcie fee which it is.

So you said earlier that NCL has tagged your profile because you have a history of removing the DSC. What if NCL started to share that information with the staff

Imagine when you hand your card to the hostess at a MDR, it's swiped and her screen flashes to her: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC"

When she seats your party at a poor table after a prolonged wait, stating it's the best table they have right now. Next she ensures your wait staff are aware you're the habitual DSC remover.

Service is slow because the server coded your order: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC" Behind the scenes your plates for food service aren't as clean most guest receive. And perhaps the cooks add to your dish a flavor most other guests don't have the pleasure...

And in your room you noticed your sheets and towels didn't seem as fresh and clean.

Would you complain?

And what would you say when the response was: "Well, to compensate you, we'll just remove the DSC. Oh, look! It's been removed already. Enjoy your cruise!"

Perhaps this is the very way the NCL will take their stance to prove their point as to the importance of DSC.

So you said earlier that NCL has tagged your profile because you have a history of removing the DSC. What if NCL started to share that information with the staff

 

Imagine when you hand your card to the hostess at a MDR, it's swiped and her screen flashes to her: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC"

 

When she seats your party at a poor table after a prolonged wait, stating it's the best table they have right now. Next she ensures your wait staff are aware you're the habitual DSC remover.

 

Service is slow because the server coded your order: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC" Behind the scenes your plates for food service aren't as clean most guest receive. And perhaps the cooks add to your dish a flavor most other guests don't have the pleasure...

 

And in your room you noticed your sheets and towels didn't seem as fresh and clean.

 

Would you complain?

 

And what would you say when the response was: "Well, to compensate you, we'll just remove the DSC. Oh, look! It's been removed already. Enjoy your cruise!"

 

 

Perhaps this is the very way the NCL will take their stance to prove their point as to the importance of DSC.

Love it!!! Touche!

So you said earlier that NCL has tagged your profile because you have a history of removing the DSC. What if NCL started to share that information with the staff

 

Imagine when you hand your card to the hostess at a MDR, it's swiped and her screen flashes to her: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC"

 

When she seats your party at a poor table after a prolonged wait, stating it's the best table they have right now. Next she ensures your wait staff are aware you're the habitual DSC remover.

 

Service is slow because the server coded your order: "GUEST ALWAYS REMOVES DSC" Behind the scenes your plates for food service aren't as clean most guest receive. And perhaps the cooks add to your dish a flavor most other guests don't have the pleasure...

 

And in your room you noticed your sheets and towels didn't seem as fresh and clean.

 

Would you complain?

 

And what would you say when the response was: "Well, to compensate you, we'll just remove the DSC. Oh, look! It's been removed already. Enjoy your cruise!"

 

 

Perhaps this is the very way the NCL will take their stance to prove their point as to the importance of DSC.

So you are saying that the only way to get great service is to bribe the staff and cruise line into that? I had this very conversation at a shareholders meeting for a cruise line and yes just as vocal as here. A Vice President (I think the line had about 100 VP's) pulled me aside and made a point to say if headquarters ever found out any staff member lowered the service because of a service fee issue that staff member would be gone. Along with the manger who should have overseen the staff better.

They would never flash the information across the service staff because of the possible legal issues it would cause. So I'm not worried about my food or cabin in the least. Never did I say I do not tip I have always said I tip the people I believe should be tip in cash.

As a shareholder I love these these fees, they put money in my pocket. As A guest I know they really only help the company....

Why do suite guests pay $3.00 more per person per day?

I am pretty certain the main reason for the DSC for suite guests to be $3.00 more p.p. is for the cabin steward, as they get a fixed portion of the DSC p.p. for every cabin they are responsible for (wether that is 12 cabins or 20 cabins). Obviously when he/she is responsible for suites instead of regular cabins, the area they are taken care of is larger than a regular cabin and therefore they have a smaller amount of suites to take care of instead of the room stewards who take care of regular sized cabins on board. Hence they are compensated for that.....

At least that was the case when I was working as a cabin stewardess for Crystal Cruises for a short period of time more than 20 years ago, and I believe that is the standard across the cruise industry....

Why do suite guests pay $3.00 more per person per day?

Because they get more services. I think that is pretty easy to figure out.

Because they get more services. I think that is pretty easy to figure out.

Sorry that is not really a answer. You pay more for the suite so you have already paid for the services. It is no different then flying business class, I pay more for the fare and get get higher levels of service and comfort.

I disagree with this part. While I can disagree with you on DSC and debate that back and forth, there is a valid reason for the higher suite gratuity for those who agree to pay the DSC.

 

 

And no, it is not because your cabin is bigger. NCL has a Haven area available to suite guests, this area has additional staff that are solely for the suite guests.

 

Now, I honestly don't know how NCL breaks down tips. I can tell you they don't include security staff in the DSC. But I am going to say that the additional staff is the reason that NCL has a higher DSC for suite guests. That and because they can.

While I am not one to ever remove a DSC unless it was a major service issue that did not get addressed, I am staying in a Suite on the Dawn, where there is no Haven area. Why them should I have to pay extra DSC? I am not getting access to any additional staff (other than Butler and Concierge that are clearly not part of the DSC) or areas that the regular guests are not getting access to. The only possible additional access is the breakfast and lunch in Moderno/Cagneys. Don't think that warrants $3/day/person. Again, I am gladly paying substantially more for a suite than a regular room and so the additional DSC is kind of overkill.

While I am not one to ever remove a DSC unless it was a major service issue that did not get addressed, I am staying in a Suite on the Dawn, where there is no Haven area. Why them should I have to pay extra DSC? I am not getting access to any additional staff (other than Butler and Concierge that are clearly not part of the DSC) or areas that the regular guests are not getting access to. The only possible additional access is the breakfast and lunch in Moderno/Cagneys. Don't think that warrants $3/day/person. Again, I am gladly paying substantially more for a suite than a regular room and so the additional DSC is kind of overkill.

We'll be on the Jewel, in an aft balcony. I have zero use for the Haven pool or area even if they have one.

So, not saying I disagree with you. Just saying that I suspect that is more the reason than larger rooms. That and because NCL can.

because they are staff in the suite areas that provide you with additional services.

I am confused about this statement - I know that suites have Butlers, but I was told the Butlers do not share in the daily service charge tips and must be tipped separately. Are you saying the additional $3 goes to the Butler?

I am confused about this statement - I know that suites have Butlers, but I was told the Butlers do not share in the daily service charge tips and must be tipped separately. Are you saying the additional $3 goes to the Butler?

They are talking about the Haven areas. Most ships have a dedicated area just for Haven passengers that has it's own staff. Additionally they have separate dining areas for breakfast and lunch, and on some ships a full time restaurant.

Yeah....more personnel in the Haven....more service.

I would imagine the crew to passenger ratio in the Haven is quite a bit more than anywhere else on the ship.

Sorry that is not really a answer. You pay more for the suite so you have already paid for the services. It is no different then flying business class, I pay more for the fare and get get higher levels of service and comfort.

Yes, it is very different than your airline business class analogy.

Airlines do not add a DAILY SERVICE CHARGE.

Airlines and cruise lines charge different fares based upon class of service on the airline or class of cabin on the cruise line. Each may have it's own level of service as you note. However, most cruise lines add a daily service charge whereas airlines do not.

DSC does not mean DISCRETIONARY service charge, and to believe so demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.

In fact, it's amazing to what great lengths cruisers will go to in distorting and twisting reality with their rationalizations to clear their conscience when they conclude that it's perfectly acceptable to eliminate the service charge.

Perhaps it's time to go right back to the source, NCL to get an explanation. From their website:

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

In plain language, NCL tells us:

• certain positions have two parts to their cash compensation
  
• one part of the compensation is what the line pays them for simply showing up and performing their duties
  
• one part of the compensation is variable because it's part of an incentive program.
  
• no details regarding the incentive program are provided to passengers.
  
• no details regarding all of the positions that participate in the incentive program are provided to passengers.
  
• Other lines besides NCL provide incentive programs for crew.
  
• The service charge is used to fund the incentive program.
  

Logical inferences from the NCL published information are:

• NCL considers the details of their incentive compensation program to be confidential information to be shared only with participants and administrators of the program.
  
• NCL has established clear and measurable goals which allow all participants to determine whether or not they will receive incentive pay and how much.
  
• While NCL has developed their own incentive program, it most likely shares similarities with incentive programs in place with their competitors.
  
• NCL considers their incentive program to be fair and competitive.
  
• Internally the program is promoted as a WIN-WIN-WIN Proposition. When goals are met:
  
  • Passengers are happy as measured by positive post-cruise surveys and "hero" cards.
    
  • Crew are happy with incentive payouts
    
  • Line enjoys higher profit margins.
    

  [*]NCL does not consult with or solicit input from passengers regarding the design of their compensation program just as they never consult passengers on the design and layout of controls on the bridge.

So back to the topic of this thread and the $3.00 difference....

We may never know because NCL doesn't feel the need to share it with us.

Can we speculate and validate this difference? Yes. A number of people in this thread had provided plausible reasons. Some, all or none could be correct. Noone yet has suggested that perhaps the incentives for Suite/The Haven crew are more generous or simply different that other positions that participate. Maybe or maybe not.

Again, NCL has not felt the need to consult, explain or justify the inter workings of their incentive program.

There's an old expression: "Sit back, relax, and let the driving to us."

First you pay on average double for the suite then they want to hit you for more money with the fake daily service charge. But you do have a choice, while NCL try to hide it the simple fact it is these fees are discretionary, you can change or remove.

 

The policy:

 

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction programme designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges.

As the last lines says "Should your concern s not be met to your satisfaction you can adjust the charges" The simple fact here is you do not need to give them a reason or you can, if you want but you can adjust to zero and nothing they can do about it.

NCL can and will try to use strong arming and intimidation if they think they can get away with it. My last few cruises with them, Guest Services has contacted me and asked if I want the fees removed. They have a past file because on principle I have always paid my own gratuities as I see fit. Even knowing in advance I remove these fees they still take the reservations and accept the bookings why? Because they cannot under the account and system they use make daily service fees mandatory.

While redundant, I have pasted the Q&A again from NCL's website without any emphasis added.

If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board?

Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line. We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently. However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner. It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges.

In an earlier post in this thread I pasted the Q&A NCL provides regarding the service charge. Essentially, the service charge is money collected to help offset NCL's labor cost. And part of that labor cost are incentive programs (plural, as I re-read it) that we can only guess are tied to better/higher performance on the part of the crew.

So now let's focus on ADJUSTMENTS to the service charge.

First, notice that NCL doesn't simply state REMOVAL of the service charge.

Ask 100 people who are familiar with the NCL cruise experience to restate that paragraph, and I'd bet the vast majority would say something along the lines of:

• At NCL we really want passengers to enjoy their cruise.
  

• We have officers, managers, and supervisors trained to immediately react when they see something that could go wrong, and fix it.
  

• But if we miss something and you're unhappy, tell us right away, and
  

• Give us a chance to make it right, so you are happy.
  

• If we can't, then we can adjust your service charge.
  

The spirit of the policy seems to be adjustments should be the last resort when a problem can't be fixed.

Also, it really doesn't seem there's a provision for removing the DSC because I passenger wants to "tip" their way.

The DSC is a per passenger assessment for labor. And that bears similarity to a "fuel surcharge" airlines impose on a ticket price-- only there's no airline form to remove the fuel surcharge.

NCL appears to allow the DSC to become a negotiating tool should something get messed up that they can't fix.

But it doesn't appear that NCL has provisions to remove the DSC in protest of NCL's policies and decisions regarding compensation.

Now, regarding this statement:

The simple fact here is you do not need to give them a reason or you can, if you want but you can adjust to zero and nothing they can do about it.

There is one simple thing NCL can do. And that's to change the policy on adjustments. Close the loophole that you are exploiting.

Instead, make adjustments to be "at the discretion" of NCL. Then, if something really gets messed up for a guest that can't be fixed, NCL can decide on the appropriate adjustment.

So when someone says "take it off, I'll tip my way." No, sorry but the DSC is not a form of gratuity, subject to substitutions. It's an important part of a structured incentive program. The fee was disclosed in all documents prior to sailing.

Or someone says "take it off because I smelled cigarette smoke when I walked through the casino and it ruined my whole cruise." No, sorry to hear about that. Hope it's better next time.

Will NCL change the policy? Probably not. I'd guess the exploiters represent an insignificant number.

This is what I was questioning in my original post. I received this while on a Celebrity Dec 2017 cruise

So Based on this - Celebrity thinks a Butler should be tipped $3.50 per day and the Concierge $4.09. Does anyone know if the NCL Butlers do more or less than the Celebrity Butlers?

Here is my take: The Celebrity butlers and concierges receive a tiny amount each. This is whether they are used or not. As a suite pax I would consider this a "starting point"... each additional service --- or --- if I feel the basics were done with exceptional service, it would be reflected in cash at the end.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

So Based on this - Celebrity thinks a Butler should be tipped $3.50 per day and the Concierge $4.09. Does anyone know if the NCL Butlers do more or less than the Celebrity Butlers?

Just note that what Celebrity publishes is much different than how NCL treats their daily service charge on.

Celebrity specifically states they make it easier to tip and they give you the breakout.

NCL does not and NCL does not imply that the service charge is a tip or gratuity.

Specifically NCL states that the daily service charge is money used towards their labor costs for salary and incentive compensation programs.

 

 

NCL does not and NCL does not imply that the service charge is a tip or gratuity.

 

Until they run a promotion with 'free gratuities'. Then all of a sudden the Discretionary Service Charge is a tip. That promotion has run often and NCL clearly admits, like back in 2000, the Discretionary Service Charge is a tip.

Until they run a promotion with 'free gratuities'. Then all of a sudden the Discretionary Service Charge is a tip. That promotion has run often and NCL clearly admits, like back in 2000, the Discretionary Service Charge is a tip.

NCL has never run a "free gratuities" promotion with respect to the daily service charge that is the subject of this thread.

There are plenty of third party sites that incorrectly refer to NCL's carefully worded promotions as free gratuities, while NCL refers to it as "Free Pre-paid Service Charges"

In the English language, tips and gratuities are discretionary while service charges are imposed and mandatory.

So the erroneous expression "Discretionary Service Charge" is a contradiction in terms. DSC stands for Daily Service Charge.

NCL has never run a "free gratuities" promotion with respect to the daily service charge that is the subject of this thread.

One of the problems is that NCL uses the terms "Gratuities" and "Services Charges" in their promotions.....

...so there is no point in arguing what that "thing" (DSC) is called.

One of the problems is that NCL uses the terms "Gratuities" and "Services Charges" in their promotions.....

 

 

 

...so there is no point in arguing what that "thing" (DSC) is called.

Actually there is. The first ad that you reference is from a third party website, a travel agency. If you go back to Google images, click on the ad and then click the visit website button, you will see.

The second ad is from NCL which references Free Pre-Paid Services Charges.

I got this directly from NCL in 2015...

I got this directly from NCL in 2015...

 

Can you take a picture of the fine print explanation with the two asterisks?

NCL has never run a "free gratuities" promotion with respect to the daily service charge that is the subject of this thread.

 

There are plenty of third party sites that incorrectly refer to NCL's carefully worded promotions as free gratuities, while NCL refers to it as "Free Pre-paid Service Charges"

 

In the English language, tips and gratuities are discretionary while service charges are imposed and mandatory.

 

So the erroneous expression "Discretionary Service Charge" is a contradiction in terms. DSC stands for Daily Service Charge.

Haha, you are so wrong and so confused. Stick your fingers in your ears and keep yelling 'I am right'.

The ignorance is pretty amusing.