Changes coming in the food and beverage department

We were informed yesterday that on Sojourn, as of February 11 (Cape Town), the distinction between bar-server and waiter will cease to exist. All waiters will need to be able to work in the bars and all bar-servers will need to be able to work in the various restaurants. (TKG will keep its dedicated team.) A lot of training is taking place currently.

I will reserve judgement on this change until I have experienced it. Hopefully there is no customer/service impact.

However, as part of this change, there will be a lot less sommeliers as the “new” bar-server/waiter will also pour all complimentary wines - including at lunch and dinner. Going forward a sommelier will only come to your table if you are $ purchasing a premium wine. I think this change is regrettable as there is something premium, luxurious about a sommelier coming to the table to pour wine, which is what I would expect on a luxury line like Seabourn.

Floris

This certainly is a big change - I can see both positive and negative effects. In the past I know it was sometimes frustrating when you wanted a wine refill and a waiter would have to go find a bar server. On the other hand it now means the food waiters will need to learn quite a bit more about what wines are available from the house list. Like you Floris I will reserve judgement. Guess those of us embarking on the 11th will be guinea pigs.

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That does not sound like a good move to me. It will be asking a lot of the staff to learn how to deal properly with both food serving and wine and bar work.

Let us know how it goes; no doubt eventually it might work out.

The planned inability to access a sommelier is troubling, apparently another cost-saving measure. On our last cruise a highlight of our day was talking to the MDR sommelier at lunch and dinner about which wine would go best with our food choices, and more often than not we would work off the included list he had given us a copy of. Now pax will only be able to access him if they give SB extra money by paying for premium wines, which have inflated markup costs, e.g., compared with SS and HL in my experience.

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I think we need to give this a chance.

In most restaurants one would expect the waiter to have a decent knowledge of the wines they are offering and, on Seabourn, the range of complimentary wines is small enough that there is no reason why the wait staff should not be able to learn them.

I also think it could enhance the dining experience as it is often frustrating trying to get a wine waiter and especially later in the evening when they have started transitioning them back to the bars which means, especially in the MDR, they can become few and far between.

Interesting - Holland America tried something similar to this a couple of years ago - having waiters deliver bar drinks, etc during meals .... and guess what? The sommeliers are back. It did not work well. What are they thinking? Why the relentless moves to cut costs and increase the job descriptions and complexities of their faithful crew?

Has it been mentioned that this is a limited roll out on Sojourn?

Oh here it comes again - the voices of doom and gloom. In the first place no one has said this means fewer crew. Maybe yes - maybe no. The fact is we don’t know yet. And second as the new system does not roll out for two weeks who can say what the impact will be. Most likely those of us on this first cruise with the multitasking servers will experience an awkward period as crew and passengers adjust. Frankly I intend to bend over backwards to ignore any little initial bumps in the road. And I do think it would behoove passengers to try to get a copy of the list of house wines as soon as possible to keep from having to “interrogate” these people as to what is being poured. Frankly I think Seabourn would do themselves and all passengers a great service by just automatically placing a copy of the list in each suite on embarkation day.

As to the premium wines we have always been quite delighted at the way most are priced - even before our loyalty discount. I don’t know of any restaurant I have been to recently both at home and on recent trips to NYC , LA and Vancouver where where wine prices were close to retail as is the case with many on the premium list.

And remember before you start jumping on the Sky is falling band wagon, , the definition of change is not “ a cost saving measure.”

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Frankly I think Seabourn would do themselves and all passengers a great service by just automatically placing a copy of the list in each suite on embarkation

 

 

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Great idea!

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It makes sense to 'allow' wait-staff to pour wines at lunch and dinner - don't see a problem there, good idea. And we don't really need a sommelier to discuss the virtues of a decent, though unremarkable, every-day, off the supermarket shelf, wine.

However, it was always pleasant to have the same person regularly behind the bar, be it club, sky or observation, over a cruise. If you happened to be a regular at a particular bar, they got to know you, you got to know them. It would be " Good Evening Mr. June. The usual?"

"Yes Please Frank/Dolores. Did you get ashore today? " Etc.

And you would get your G & T, with the tonic unpoured on the side, a double shot with plenty of ice and a wedge of lime (or whatever....). Sometimes it would already be there on the bar because she or he saw you coming.

Not sure you will get anything like that with a different face behind the bar every night.

And that would be a shame.

Or have I misunderstood the concept?

Oh - and another thumbs up for Chairsin's hose wine list in every suite idea.

My sense is that there would still be a barman (or woman) running each of the bars but that this change means more flexibility in moving wait/serving staff between food and drink functions.

Being barman requires a range of specialist skills, experience and knowledge beyond just knowing the house wines. Much of this comes through years of experience. I don't think they could simply be replaced by a waiter having received a few weeks of training.

I’m not opposed to this idea, I think it will make wine service more efficient. The sommelier is really a wine sales person anyway. They don’t like waisting a lot of time discussing the complementary pours. I’m not a fan of Seabourn ‘s complementary wines anyway now that I think about it.

Last summer on Encore I opted for a French Rose after they ran out of the only red I liked.

I’m about to board Sojourn for an extended period , I think my wine bill may be a large one!

I’m going on two private wine tours in Cape Town pre cruise and plan on buying some wine to bring on board to supplement the wine offered. But I know I will also be buying plenty from the premium list. We were with friends on our July Alaska cruise and each had a nice sized OBC. It was almost likely Monopoly money. Sadly not as much of an OBC this time.

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I’m going on two private wine tours in Cape Town pre cruise and plan on buying some wine to bring on board to supplement the wine offered. But I know I will also be buying plenty from the premium list. We were with friends on our July Alaska cruise and each had a nice sized OBC. It was almost likely Monopoly money. Sadly not as much of an OBC this time.

 

 

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We haven't planned any wine tours as yet although it is one of the things we would like to do. I thought I would check with the Concierge at our hotel when we get there. But it is a good idea to buy some wine and bring it aboard assuming we can find some good stuff.

I am sorry to assume that this shift means fewer crew ... but it does sound just like what Holland America tried and there it did mean fewer crew serving in the dining rooms in the evening - as the sommeliers were gone and the servers had additional responsibilities.

I do not mean to spread doom and gloom - just reporting what I experienced. On HAL it did not work - I do not know for sure how Seabourn is doing it or how it will turn out in actual practice. Just sharing here.

I am sure your hotel will be able to fix you up with a tour. I was lucky that a CC friend was there not long ago and gave me a good recommendation of a wine tour guide. I’m especially interested in visiting some of the wineries that produce some of the top rated Pinotage.

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However, it was always pleasant to have the same person regularly behind the bar, be it club, sky or observation, over a cruise.

I’m not aware of any changes to the role of bartender - that’s a specialised skill. Just bar servers / waiters.

Floris

Obviously if your waiter and their assistant are dealing with your water and wine requirements at dinner each table will take more time to serve. If staff numbers remain the same it should work fine. I feel sure that the head barman in each venue will remain the person who mixes cocktails etc.

A list of included wines for each cruise - which can vary - should certainly be in every suite, on the first day.

Fingers crossed!

With all due respect to HAL and its fans, I don’t see what its successes and mishaps have to do with Seabourn, especially in the hotel side of things. Seabourn’s dining rooms are far better equipped and staffed than a HAL ship.

One our one and only HAL cruise you either bought a wine package - and did they ever push them! - or you were on your own when trying to attract attention for wine service. It was more about speeding up the first sitting and getting in the second. Nothing of the sort happens on Seabourn ships:

More staff per passenger of course, better supervision, and a more luxurious, leisurely pace is what Seabourn delivers. Not to mention that on the ODY class ships you have far more seats across the 4 dining venues to choose from in terms of the passenger capacity.

I am not concerned at all about Seabourn rolling out the change of who does what regarding the complimentary wines. It seems to me the overall service will be more fluid. We are on Sojourn now and I have not heard a peep about it. Great service and calm prevail as we approach Tristan da Cunha in 2 days. We have a couple of scenic cruising days in its vicinity so Captain Elliot can choose which day we might tender in given whatever the conditions are. After all that is Namibia.

Happy and healthy sailing!

I imagine the references to HAL are because the running of Seabourn does seem nowadays to be overseen by HAL management? Certainly that appears to be so in the UK - and it is not an improvement.

I am cautiously optimistic about this change.

We experienced frustrations with beverage service on the last couple of sailings, particularly in the Colonnade. My usual MO is to find a patio table in the Colonnade. Then we’ll order beverages (and any special order items) before we head up to the buffet. We’d frequently order food and it would arrive before anyone came around to ask what we’d like to drink. Waits of 10 minutes to get a beverage are not acceptable but the staff seemed to be stumbling over each other with food I’d servers standing around while beverage servers ran themselves ragged.

Also, not every wine poured in the dining rooms is poured by a sommelier. There are both beverage servers and sommeliers. It is my understanding that the sommeliers are not going away and in fact a couple more members of the beverage team were actually recently promoted to sommelier.

I imagine the references to HAL are because the running of Seabourn does seem nowadays to be overseen by HAL management? Certainly that appears to be so in the UK - and it is not an improvement.

That is correct. If I call Seabourn in Europe nowadays HAL answers the phone and the first comment of the rep is something like “oohhh that’s a Seabourn booking”. Not a problem in itself, but not the best possible brand experience either.

Floris

Floris, Good to see you back posting. Hard to believe its been almost a year since the Quest in Antartica.

I wish all if these discussions would wait until after the rollout of a new system to see what the actual effect is instead of before when everything is mere conjecture!

It sounds an excellent idea to me,I’m sure there will not be any shedding of staff.

It does free up the Sommelier to recommend and sell wines from the wine list and not have to waste their time with guests that will only drink the included wines that will be easily explained by the waiting staff.

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