New Ships When?

My household just loved the Marina.

We are booked on an R class for this October and a bit concerned about the small bathrooms and aging infastructure etc. We are trying the R class to see if it is workable for us in the future.

Now looking at Viking because we want "newish" vessels with premium level physical assets for the ship and the cabin.

Anyone know if Oceania is committed to more Marina class vessels?

Why do you need new ships? Just keep sailing on the Marina and Riviera. Obviously the amenities on the ship are more important to you than where you are going.

After many cruises ion Oceania and Crystal we are trying Viking. They currently get wonderful reviews for almost everything you could want. The cabins and public spaces do look amazing and probably will be worth taking the chance.

Why do you need new ships? Just keep sailing on the Marina and Riviera. Obviously the amenities on the ship are more important to you than where you are going.

We are long time Boat Nerds, yes the ship is 1/2 of our attraction (we worship the QM2) - but the other 1/2 is the destination.

We note the R ships have seemingly more interesting itineraries than the O vessels. Hence it is not logical we would limit ourselves to only 2 Oceania vessels.

Also interested in what if any manouvers Oceania is planning to address the Viking competitor with their similar product and excellent reviews - hence my post.

There is no question Viking and their beautiful ships shook up the marketplace. They are winning many awards.

We’ve done a couple Viking, liked it a lot but didn’t love it. We don’t have any more booked but have 3 booked on O.

Viking food was very good, excellent specialties, but honestly it was a level or two below Oceania. Ship comfort level was a couple levels below. We disliked their outdoor spaces, especially the uncomfortable seating and poor ventilation in the pool deck area.

They did a terrific job with interior design and decor and their spa is wonderful.

We are long time Boat Nerds, yes the ship is 1/2 of our attraction (we worship the QM2) - but the other 1/2 is the destination.

 

We note the R ships have seemingly more interesting itineraries than the O vessels. Hence it is not logical we would limit ourselves to only 2 Oceania vessels.

 

Also interested in what if any manouvers Oceania is planning to address the Viking competitor with their similar product and excellent reviews - hence my post.

I think Viking is going to over saturate this market segment and Oceania will probably just set back and watch it and keep doing what they do.

I think Viking is going to over saturate this market segment and Oceania will probably just set back and watch it and keep doing what they do.

I'm not sure what this means.

I'm not sure what this means.

I am not sure either. Please explain :confused::confused:

I am not sure either. Please explain :confused::confused:

What I was trying to say is that basically the demographic that sails on Oceania, Azamara & Viking is very similar, and frequently overlaps. Of course the same can be said for more luxury lines but I'll leave them out of the conversation for now.

The well of customers is only so deep, or there are only so many of them. With Viking having orders in for 4 new ships, which in the next 5 years will give them 10 ocean ships I'm just now sure how all the cabins will be filled. Where will all these customers come from? Are there that many people that are looking for a cruise line that is child unfriendly and with no casino?

With all this new room inventory coming on the market Oceania probably will just do their best to fill the rooms they have. Can't really see Oceania trying to add more ships. But I could be totally wrong.

Not to mention Virgin will be building 3 new ships in the same time frame, with at least the first being adult only, with a passenger load of 2800 or so.

What I was trying to say is that basically the demographic that sails on Oceania, Azamara & Viking is very similar, and frequently overlaps. Of course the same can be said for more luxury lines but I'll leave them out of the conversation for now.

 

The well of customers is only so deep, or there are only so many of them. With Viking having orders in for 4 new ships, which in the next 5 years will give them 10 ocean ships I'm just now sure how all the cabins will be filled. Where will all these customers come from? Are there that many people that are looking for a cruise line that is child unfriendly and with no casino?

 

With all this new room inventory coming on the market Oceania probably will just do their best to fill the rooms they have. Can't really see Oceania trying to add more ships. But I could be totally wrong.

 

Not to mention Virgin will be building 3 new ships in the same time frame, with at least the first being adult only, with a passenger load of 2800 or so.

You do make a lot of sense, but one of the biggest rules of business is that you must move forward or you are really slipping backward. For it's first 10 years in business Oceania was growing and giving us a better and better product. Now they seem to be getting stale while the competition is getting bigger and better. They need to add a few more newer ships to keep up. Hope they do as we love Oceania and need them to move forward. :):)

Just my own opinion but, O went for a small slice of market and ended up hitting the nail on the head. But I agree that in general, businesses must move forward when new competing company's start taking market size away (this is a good thing for consumers).

I would think Viking and Virgin did their homework for market size before ordering all their new ships. O will likely follow in offering amenities these two lines are/will provide (examples like wifi (ongoing right now), dining, entertainment, etc.). But, I don't see any new builds happening for O for a long time until the market really expands a lot more.

A similar example can be US airlines. Delta took the lead on further enhancing both hard and soft product. AA and United simply follow what Delta does, neither one of them taking the lead anymore. I can see O taking this "just follow" roll for a while now. Then again, I could be complete wrong :)

Cheers,

John

Just not seeing the demand in O’s market niche.

For those of you familiar with Viking’s river boat cruises, they raft multiple boats together, 3 is common and I’ve seen 4 , in river towns and overwhelm the same towns with tour buses. That’s just Viking and doesn’t include all the other lines there at the same time! Well, ocean liners don’t raft well like river boats!

How many of you have been to Alaska on a cruise in Summer? How many more ships you think they can get into Juneau, Ketchikan, or up Tracy’s Arm on a given day? Would you want to be in Juneau if 10 cruise ships were there instead of seven?

All the cruise lines have problems selling winter Carribe cruises. Where do you think many of those Viking ships will go in winter. Or, how about Moorea and Bora Bora with 4-5 ships anchored out waiting turns to unload tenders at the beach?!

Viking has not cared about trashing many of the Rhine, Danube, and Rhone ports with a huge supply of ships. Some might cheer their actions in that oversupply has reduced cruise prices significantly in the past few years.

Many ports are already overcrowded, especially the Med, Baltic, and Alaska ones in summer. If/when the cruise lines do to ocean cruising what they’re doing to river cruising, the number of cruisers will decrease. One caveat, the number of cruisers doing so for itinerary and the ports will decrease. Those for which the ship is the primary destination, which includes many O cruisers, will stay the same or possibly increase due to the necessary lower prices to fill the ships.

Just not seeing the demand in O’s market niche.

 

For those of you familiar with Viking’s river boat cruises, they raft multiple boats together, 3 is common and I’ve seen 4 , in river towns and overwhelm the same towns with tour buses. That’s just Viking and doesn’t include all the other lines there at the same time! Well, ocean liners don’t raft well like river boats!

 

How many of you have been to Alaska on a cruise in Summer? How many more ships you think they can get into Juneau, Ketchikan, or up Tracy’s Arm on a given day? Would you want to be in Juneau if 10 cruise ships were there instead of seven?

 

All the cruise lines have problems selling winter Carribe cruises. Where do you think many of those Viking ships will go in winter. Or, how about Moorea and Bora Bora with 4-5 ships anchored out waiting turns to unload tenders at the beach?!

 

Viking has not cared about trashing many of the Rhine, Danube, and Rhone ports with a huge supply of ships. Some might cheer their actions in that oversupply has reduced cruise prices significantly in the past few years.

 

Many ports are already overcrowded, especially the Med, Baltic, and Alaska ones in summer. If/when the cruise lines do to ocean cruising what they’re doing to river cruising, the number of cruisers will decrease. One caveat, the number of cruisers doing so for itinerary and the ports will decrease. Those for which the ship is the primary destination, which includes many O cruisers, will stay the same or possibly increase due to the necessary lower prices to fill the ships.

Along these lines several ports - Venice & Dubrovnik come to mind - are already planning to limit the number and size of visiting ships.

I suspect some other ports are to follow as many of these popular ports are overwhelmed by the sheer number of daily visitors during peak season.

We were told the line for the gondola down to the Dock in Santorini can get up to near two hours long in summer. Bus traffic can come to a standstill. Not enough donkeys to meet the alternative demand! Enjoy that hike down in 45 C weather! Oh, watch your step, the donkeys leave surprises for you along the way!

We’re going to be in Ketchikan this July on Regatta. At the same time there will be four other ships with a combined passenger capacity higher than the town’s population.

As for new builds, I’m happy with the current fleet as is. Shiny and new isn’t always better. And I sure don’t want my favorite cruise line to get itself mired in debt in order to keep up with some other line.

 

As for new builds, I’m happy with the current fleet as is. Shiny and new isn’t always better. And I sure don’t want my favorite cruise line to get itself mired in debt in order to keep up with some other line.

Agree.

That was part of Renaissance's undoing (along with other factors like 9/11 - although many other lines "survived" 9/11 but Renaissance had too many new builds at the time).

It can happen to Viking if economy has a severe downturn at the wrong time for them with many empty ships and bills to pay..

Agree.

That was part of Renaissance's undoing (along with other factors like 9/11 - although many other lines "survived" 9/11 but Renaissance had too many new builds at the time).

It can happen to Viking if economy has a severe downturn at the wrong time for them with many empty ships and bills to pay..

Plus 1..Im sure Frank remembers the over building in Ren well..

Jan

Agree.

That was part of Renaissance's undoing (along with other factors like 9/11 - although many other lines "survived" 9/11 but Renaissance had too many new builds at the time).

It can happen to Viking if economy has a severe downturn at the wrong time for them with many empty ships and bills to pay..

I totally agree.

We’ve been told Viking is deep in the woods with debt, they are privately owned so we don’t know how much.

I’m fine with Oceania staying in their lane. IMO their product is superior to Viking.

Plus 1..Im sure Frank remembers the over building in Ren well..

 

Jan

I hope that Frank thinks of the change in the amenities program and how dis loyal Oceania is becoming to it's customers at a time when all these new ships are coming on line. We have been pretty loyal to O but need them to be loyal to us. A lot of us will be looking elsewhere in the future if this takes place. :(:(

I hope that Frank thinks of the change in the amenities program and how dis loyal Oceania is becoming to it's customers at a time when all these new ships are coming on line. We have been pretty loyal to O but need them to be loyal to us. A lot of us will be looking elsewhere in the future if this takes place. :(:(

I think you have beaten this horse to death.

I think you have beaten this horse to death.

Not even close. When they realize the big mistake they are making and correct it then we have done our job for ourselves and our fellow passengers. :):)

Also with Viking I don't want to pay for their 'included' excursions when we tend to do our own thing in port.

At the moment Oceania suits us fine.

Plus 1..Im sure Frank remembers the over building in Ren well..

 

Jan

Exactly what I have been thinking but didn't say ...

Mura

Also with Viking I don't want to pay for their 'included' excursions when we tend to do our own thing in port.

At the moment Oceania suits us fine.

I agree that at the moment Oceania suits us just fine. 2 more cruises booked this year. But where will we be in 5 years when the rest of the world passes us by? Need to keep up with the competition to stay as the best. And now I think we are the best or pretty close. By the way, we have found that in the last few years the included tours are really pretty good. Hardly ever had taken an O tour before that and was very pleasantly suprised as to how good they were. :):)

Lets continue to beat the dead horse. Big difference between Ren and O. Ren was run on shaky financial ground with little cash flow.. O is part of NCL with significantly bigger pockets. NCL is investing in Regent and also its own NCL ships with a significant new build program. Would hope that O does do some new builds but in the in between class (sized between R and O). Lead times are approaching 3 years for the design and construction of a new build.