Bonnie - Questions About Our Cruise to CUBA from Lisbon

Curious about visa for U.S.citizens. We cruised last year on Fathom cruises Adonia (soon to be Azamara Pursuit). Is the visa we obtained then still current or is it a one time visit visa?

Curious about visa for U.S.citizens. We cruised last year on Fathom cruises Adonia (soon to be Azamara Pursuit). Is the visa we obtained then still current or is it a one time visit visa?

Suggest you read the actual Visa you have in your Passport to see its' validity and how many times entry. That said, with the confusion in the cruise from Lisbon, it is completely up to azamara as to whether or not you need to purchase a Visa from azamara.

Based on the azamara response to the Lisbon cruise, assume azamara will force you to purchase a Visa from them for your cruise whether or not your current Visa is valid. The more revenue and profits for azamara, the merrier.

Bonnie,

Please can you confirm and clarify the following:-

1. We will need to buy the Azamara supplied Visa regardless of where our passports have been issued.

2. We must purchase an Azamara tour in order to get off the shi

3. How much will the Azamara visa cost?

Many thanks

As I understand it you do not have to purchase an Azamara tour, but you do have to purchase a tour from a company that the US govt. approves.

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You'll find a PDF of Cuba FAQs on this page of our Azamara website. It should answer all your questions.

https://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/destinations/cuba/faq

You'll find a PDF of Cuba FAQs on this page of our Azamara website. It should answer all your questions.

https://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/destinations/cuba/faq

Bonnie,

This doesn't help the question regarding non US Citizens having to purchase the Visa from azamara as it conflicts with your earlier statement as follows:

""No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons:

• Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction
  
• the voyage disembarks in the U.S.
  

Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]"

Your first bullet above is valid, Your second bullet above has no bearing in the case of the Lisbon cruise stopping in Cuba as disembarkation is not part of the US rules, embarkation is the limiting factor per the US rules as well as the link provided, NOT DISEMBARKATION.

There is no valid reason legally to not allow non-US Citizens to purchase their own Visa. That said, if azamara chooses to impose stricter rules, they have every right to but, they need to state that rather than trying to use a non-existent US rule to avoid saying it is an azamara rule and making the US the bad guy not azamara.

Not your fault you were provided incorrect information by the home office but, as has recently occurred, becoming an all too common occurrence from the azamara home office.

You'll find a PDF of Cuba FAQs on this page of our Azamara website. It should answer all your questions.

https://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/destinations/cuba/faq

Bonnie

Sorry, I just have to ask again.....

Since the posted policy states "The new regulations apply to all guests – regardless of nationality or country of residence – boarding a vessel in a U.S. port. This portion of the regulations are not new and have always been applicable to International guests."

The wording clearly indicates that the policy for both US and Non-US pax is limited to cruises boarding in a US port. If this, as you've stated previously, is not the case then the policy should be corrected to remove the condition of "boarding a vessel in a US port".

So I have to ask...... Are you certain that the posted policy is incorrect and should actually read ".... apply to all guests regardless of where they board the vessel"? If so, could you please request that the policy be corrected to eliminate the confusion?

The Azamara Visa needs to be changed too, if Azamara are insisting that this cruise DEPARTING from LISBON is subject to US Jurisdiction as this is the wording of the visa that Azamara would be insisting all International Guests purchase!

Bonnie, please can I ask again for Azamara approval for international Guests to obtain their own Non-US Cuban Visas for this voyage?

http://creative.rccl.com/Sales/Azamara/Regulations/Cuba_Guest_Cert_Final_Nov_16_2017

The first paragraph of the Azamara US Cuban Visa states:

LAST NAME _____________, FIRST NAME ____________ STATEROOM ________

AZAMARA CLUB CRUISES

GUEST CERTIFICATION FOR AUTHORIZED U.S. TRAVEL TO CUBA

“I acknowledge and understand that U.S. law currently prohibits persons who are subject to U.S. jurisdiction from traveling to Cuba unless authorized under a general license, or a specific license, as set forth in the Cuban Assets Control Regulations (“CACR”), 31 C.F.R. Part 515, administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of Treasury (“OFAC”).

regardless of their citizenship or visa status,

In accordance with U.S. law, all Azamara Club Cruises (“Azamara”) guests (including minors), traveling to Cuba from the U.S. must comply with CACR, and must

complete this Guest Certification prior to boarding the vessel.“

I have passed along posts #32&33 up the chain-of-command. Thank you for your suggestions that we update our web information.

Thank you Bonnie, I do genuinely appreciate your efforts to seek clarification on this, even though it may not look or sound like I do lol!:)

Thank you Bonnie, I do genuinely appreciate your efforts to seek clarification on this, even though it may not look or sound like I do lol!:)

I second this! Appreciate Bonnie's efforts very much. Ensuring that the written policy is in agreement with AZ's actual practices will eliminate a lot of confusion for this and future cruises.

I have passed along posts #32&33 up the chain-of-command. Thank you for your suggestions that we update our web information.

Hi Bonnie,

Is there any update on Azamara approval for non-US Passport Holders (international Guests) to obtain their own (non-restrictive) Cuban Visas for this specific voyage, departing Lisbon on 23rd Oct 2018?

Agreed this is an unusual itinerary for Azamara, whereby the ship will be departing from Lisbon (instead of a US Port) and therefore should not be subject to US Jurisdiction prior to arrival in Cuba.

Thank you!

Linda (Lobbylin)

No, I've not heard any more. To be frank I don't expect the answer from our legal department will be any different from what they told me before, and what I posted on this thread in #15 above.

Still only one excursion listed for the two day stay. I guess we are on our own on this.

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I guess the questions that are unanswered at this point are as follows:

1) Can a person obtain their own legal visa for Cuba in their home country or do they have to obtain one through Azamara?

2) Are ONLY Azamara Tours acceptable in order to disembark the ship in Cuba?

3) Are non-US citizens able to disembark in Cuba with a Valid Visa from their home country and not be restricted by US regulations as to where they can go and what they can do?

Duck duck you have mail.

Duck duck you have mail.

We received your email and for now we have to wait and see what Azamara says.

We received your email and for now we have to wait and see what Azamara says.

No worries. I thought you were looking for clarification too.:)

Hi Vince and Lin,

well, this is probably not the answer you were hoping for, nor expecting:

 

"No, the regulations will not be different for two reasons:

• Azamara is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction
  
• the voyage disembarks in the U.S.
  

Guests will still need a visa to disembark in Cuba, and will need to participate in at least one tour per day [to go ashore.]"

Bonnie,

I have since contacted OFAC for clarification as this has been going on for months now; and based on their reply (below) I again respectfully request that you feedback the OFAC reply I have received to your legal team asking for urgent confirmation that International guests (Non-US Passport holders) on this cruise departing Lisbon to Miami 23rd October 2018 are permitted to obtain their own Cuban Visas in their home country, and not be forced by Azamara to sign up to the more restrictive US Jurisdiction US Visas to visit Cuba.

Clearly, we we will also purchase ESTA Visas to permit entry to the US upon arrival in Miami.

Thank you, in anticipation...

Lobbylin

——————————————————

Correspondence with OFAC:

On 7 Feb 2018, at 23:33, <OFAC_Feedback@treasury.gov> <OFAC_Feedback@treasury.gov> wrote:

Hello,

A third-country national (i.e., an individual who is not a Cuban national and is not a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction) is not subject to OFAC jurisdiction and therefore does not need OFAC authorization (in the form of a general or specific license) to travel from Cuba to the United States from Cuba. Please note, however, that upon entry into the United States, the individual will become a person subject to U.S. jurisdiction and therefore subject to the Cuban Assets Control Regulations, 31 C.F.R. Part 515 and requires authorization to travel from the US to Cuba under one of the general licenses listed in 31 C.F.R. §515.560 or alternatively authorization via an OFAC specific license.

Please also note that there may be other relevant U.S. Government documentation, such as a visa, is necessary to enter the United States. OFAC has authorized U.S. carriers to transport foreign nationals with a valid visa or other travel authorization issued by the U.S. government to the United States from Cuba. Please see https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/guidance_cuba_travel.pdf

Best,

Sanctions Compliance & Evaluation

Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)

U.S. Department of the Treasury

1500 Pennsylvania Ave. NW

Washington, DC 20220

Toll Free: 1-800-540-6322

Local: 1-202-622-2490

Email: OFAC_Feedback@treasury.gov

Website: www.treasury.gov/ofac

cm

From: Xxxxx xxxxxxxx [mailto:Xxxxx.xxxxxxxx@yahoo.co.uk]

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 1:28 PM

To: OFAC_Feedback

Subject: Re: Are we subject to US Jurisdiction visiting Cuba?

Hello,

Please can we have some advice on who is subject to US Jurisdiction when visiting Cuba?

My husband and I are British residents and Passport Holders, living permanently in the UK, with no affiliation to the US whatsoever; and we have a reservation with Azamara Cruises to embark their cruise ship, the Azamara Journey in Lisbon this coming 23rd October 2018, on a one-way transatlantic Cruise bound for Miami.

It is a 14 night repositioning Cruise leaving Europe at the end of their Summer European Cruising Season, and we will be embarking in Lisbon, Portugal and disembarking in Miami. The itinerary involves visiting (docking) in the Azores, Bermuda and Cuba, in that order, prior to disembarking in Miami.

Azamara cruises is a wholly owned American cruise line, owned by Royal Caribbean International based in Miami, and are advising that because of that ownership, they believe we will be subject to US Jurisdiction and tourist visa rules, even though we are not departing from a US Port or airport prior to visiting Cuba.

Please can I reiterate that we are NOT located in the US, and will NOT be visiting the US or travelling via the US prior to arriving in Cuba on vacation.

I really just need clarification from you (OFAC) as to whether we will be subject to US Jurisdiction in Cuba in the following scenario:

- We are British Passport holders and U.K permanent residents.

- We are due to fly direct from our home in London to Lisbon, Portugal on 19th October 2018.

- On Oct 23rd in Lisbon, Portugal, we embark the Azamara Journey Cruise ship (which is wholly owned by an American cruise line)

- The cruise ship itinerary:-

Embark 23 Oct Lisbon, Portugal

Dock 26 Oct : The Azores (Portugal territory),

Dock 31 Oct: Bermuda (British Commonwealth),

Dock 4 Nov: Havana, Cuba

Disembark 6 Nov: Miami, USA

Thank You

Xxxxx xxxxxxxx

Hello Lobbylin,

I have passed your post along. Will let you know if I hear back.

We are also on this cruise. We are Germans, and we find the whole ambiguity really frustrating. Azamara's document clearly says "Cruises departing from the US".The general entry conditions for EU citizens do not require special tours.Why can not Azamara find a clear solution for the customers? Why should EU citizens subvert Americans' entry regulations?I do not understand that. Do you only want Americans as customers?

We're also from the UK, travelling on the Journey 23 Oct, and interested in the outcome. We need to know whether or not to apply for Cuban Visitor Cards (visas) - at cost - and what if any restrictions apply to us as UK Citizens when we arrive in Cuba.

Really excited about the opportunity to visit Cuba and make the very most of our two days there. A definitive answer would go a long way to helping us prepare properly.

Thanks.

I have more specific answers for you, and I apologize for the delay :o

1) Can a person obtain their own legal visa for Cuba in their home country or do they have to obtain one through Azamara?

Guests may obtain their own visa as long as it is the approved tourist visa to enter Cuba. If a guest purchases their own visa and it is the incorrect one, they will need to purchase a new one onboard. 



2) Are ONLY Azamara tours acceptable in order to disembark the ship in Cuba?

Guests may purchase a tour with a third-party company. However, it is the responsibility of the guest to ensure the purchased tour complies with the new US regulations, is sponsored by a US organization, and offers a full-day schedule of educational exchange activities. 



3) Are non-US citizens able to disembark inCuba with a valid Visa from their home country and not be restricted by US regulations as to where they can go and what they can do?

The new regulations apply to all guests, regardless of nationality or country of residence, since the ship is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.

I have more specific answers for you, and I apologize for the delay :o

 

1) Can a person obtain their own legal visa for Cuba in their home country or do they have to obtain one through Azamara?

Guests may obtain their own visa as long as it is the approved tourist visa to enter Cuba. If a guest purchases their own visa and it is the incorrect one, they will need to purchase a new one onboard. 



 

2) Are ONLY Azamara tours acceptable in order to disembark the ship in Cuba?

Guests may purchase a tour with a third-party company. However, it is the responsibility of the guest to ensure the purchased tour complies with the new US regulations, is sponsored by a US organization, and offers a full-day schedule of educational exchange activities. 



 

3) Are non-US citizens able to disembark inCuba with a valid Visa from their home country and not be restricted by US regulations as to where they can go and what they can do?

The new regulations apply to all guests, regardless of nationality or country of residence, since the ship is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.

Thank you Bonnie. We appreciate your help.

I have more specific answers for you, and I apologize for the delay :o

 

1) Can a person obtain their own legal visa for Cuba in their home country or do they have to obtain one through Azamara?

Guests may obtain their own visa as long as it is the approved tourist visa to enter Cuba. If a guest purchases their own visa and it is the incorrect one, they will need to purchase a new one onboard. 



 

2) Are ONLY Azamara tours acceptable in order to disembark the ship in Cuba?

Guests may purchase a tour with a third-party company. However, it is the responsibility

of the guest to ensure the purchased tour complies with the new US regulations, is sponsored by a US organization, and offers a full-day schedule of educational exchange activities. 



 

3) Are non-US citizens able to disembark inCuba with a valid Visa from their home country and not be restricted by US regulations as to where they can go and what they can do?

The new regulations apply to all guests, regardless of nationality or country of residence, since the ship is wholly-owned by a company subject to U.S. jurisdiction.

Thank you Bonny!

Europeans usually use the green visa... if we fly from the US to Cuba we would need the pink one. What do we need for this cruise? The ship sails under EU flag, so do we come from Lisbon (EU) to Cuba ? Malta (EU) ? or the US? ....

From your website....

I am an international guest, do the new regulations apply to me?

The new regulations apply to all guests – regardless of nationality or country of residence – boarding avessel in a U.S. port.

No need to book a tour... we board in Lisbon... this information is on your website.. since a very long time... right? and the PDF was updated November 16....

I am really confused, the information you get is different to the official laws and even Azamaras website.

And don't get me wrong, i read a lot in this forum, i really love how you do your job. Thank you for all the great information and work.