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Muse-ify/ Cloud-I fy/Classic/Expeditions/ whats wrong with variety?


Tarwood3
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So I’m more of a passive user of CC (like most I would imagine). I like to read a lot, educate myself , find out tips etc. I’m not much of a poster because Iknow no matter what I write, I will get the angry responses from very passionate opinionated members. But after doing some reading through several SS threads over the last few months, I have been surprised at some of the ridiculous complaints....some downright petty and pretentious really. I don’t claim to be a super cruiser...we only have 12 cruises under our belt, but are extremely well traveled probably over 80 countries at this point and almost always do luxury. The majority of our cruises (including our very first one) have been on SS. We have always loved our cruises and overall they have been excellent, although nothing is perfect and there are things that I have been disappointed in, all in all, I think they provide an excellent product. IN reading posts, it seems people are very upset over this Muse-ifying of the line and worried what that means for the future. I guess my point in starting this thread is: What’s wrong with diversity? I love variety, new things, new people,places etc...thats why we travel right? For the experience and the adventure. I dont want a cruise line where the whole fleet is identical?? I think its great that we have options...the purists can have Whisper/Wind/Shadow. Some will prefer to have a more modern ship with more options for dining and more public areas such as Muse/ Spirit etc. and then there’s the unique Explloration ships. I applaud SS for trying to appeal to a wide variety of interests and preferences. There are SO MANY new ships out there and so many new ones on the horizon, SS has to stay sharp , keep current. Staying the same and not changing or taking a chance is the death of a business. For the die hard SS cruisers that are also chronic complainers, may be its time to try a few other cruise lines...maybe SS really isn’t for you..maybe there’s a better fit out there? That’s why we have decided to dabble in few other lines...I want to see how others do things differently and again, I like variety. And you cant judge a cruise line from just one experience either. For example ..food...we have had cruises with amazing food every day and then the next cruise on SS, has very disappointing food. And my last observation...the folks that are so distraught over SS building big ships....Really? 596 is not big. Give me a break. You’re gonna be hard pressed to find any cruise line with less than 600. Even a 1000 isn’t terrible because the ships are bigger, with more to do and more real estate, so it never feels crowded but typically entertainment is better and the social scene is much better. We have only had 1 SS cruise that wasnt dead at night. If you’re upset over 596 people. Where ya gonna go boo? Crystal yacht or SeaDream maybe? You’re about out of options. I wish people would relax on here a bit more and not nit pick every little thing , god forbid your water glass got close to being empty a couple times..the horror of it all! Lol. I’m not discounting some valid and complete blunders by SS, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. So in short...we have 10 future cruises booked right now...only 1 is on SS...SS is losing a lot of $$ from us since we are taking our business elsewhere for a while to sample anddabble. Even when we do Celebrity , its in a suite (and not cheap), but their suites are very spacious and our best butler on any line was on Celebrity). And its not because we are unhappy with SS, ‘‘Its because we are curious. Point being, lots of competition out there.... Its only going to get harder for any line to keep loyal customers and attract new ones. So kudos to SS for trying...... Hopefully people are going on Muse and just enjoying the new experience and not trying to make it fit into their old habits on Whisper etc...

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You are correct in that only a few have had a bad experience and want to vent on this Fourm. So one reading this board would think the sky is falling. We too have had good, so-so and bad experiences but we roll with the punches. We also have future cruises books with someone else but would go back on most of SS ships as soon as a itinerary looks good.

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Well said, Tarwood.

I hope I bump into you on one of our cruises.

When I retired I changed the heading on the simple spreadsheet I maintain from Holidays to Travel. We like our Travel to be as varied as our aging limbs permit.

I look to systems like the Cruise Critic forums for ideas. If you want to precipiate a rant make a post on the Dress Code topic.

You are right about how boring it would be if all vessels were the same.

Well said.

Tony - London UK

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Not quite sure if hoping SS don't cloudify Silver Wind is considered nit picking or chronic complaining, or why the view that 300 is better than 1000 but hey ho. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts even if it is viewed as opinionated and looked down on if it's a different perspective on what is more enjoyable to them.

 

The only time I've exchanged cross words with SS was when they cancelled my cruise pre paid when they decided at short notice to stretch the Spirit.

 

When on board, I've mentioned the good and bad in reviews made. Without it, it's not balanced. I'm no apologist or SS basher, though I agree both exist, just not to the levels I think are implied.

 

I'm a bit confused though because you've said what's wrong with diversity, then point the finger to those not liking ships being musified. Seems very contradictory?

 

Having been lucky enough to have been on wind, cloud (and expedition), whisper, shadow, Spirit and Muse, I personally have no issues with colour schemes being adopted and the general appearance. I quite like it in fact. However, removing yet another small "classic" and adding to the expedition fleet may make financial sense (going by the success of the cloud) but will upset a fair few if and when it happens.

 

So nothing wrong with diversity... Let's keep it diverse. I've no wish to "go to Crystal yacht or seadream" and even increasing the numbers to muse type sizes, that general personal experience is lost and you become "just another passenger". When that happens the whole thing about SS is just lost IMHO and then I completely agree, I would be looking at the rest of the market as an alternative. I have and do use other lines. SS happens to tick far more boxes so you could lump me in the loyal basket it it suits.

 

I was one of the few who got the Muse dining concept on here and thoroughly enjoyed it on my voyage. Change wasn't a problem at all nor the much maligned reservations. However if Silver Wind does go the way we are many are anticipating, then it will be a sad loss IMHO. SS are busy building new ships and converting existing. If voicing my displeasure at losing the Wind is considered not embrasing diversity, then so be it. I stand guilty as charged and offer no excuses. It's not being changed because it's unsuccessful but because another more lucrative option is there. There is room for both.

 

There are a fair few posting on here who completely understand what a special little ship silver wind is. My next 2 booked with SS are on the Wind..... Just hope they don't get cancelled too.

Edited by les37b
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Well said Les 37b - Off Topic I know, but those of us who are soon to experience the ' New Spirit ' are eagerly awaiting your Walk Through Video - whilst appreciating you probably have many things to do, can you say when you are likely to release it ? Silversea seem reluctant to Post any Pictures ?

 

Many thanks in anticipation

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Well said Les 37b - Off Topic I know, but those of us who are soon to experience the ' New Spirit ' are eagerly awaiting your Walk Through Video - whilst appreciating you probably have many things to do, can you say when you are likely to release it ? Silversea seem reluctant to Post any Pictures ?

 

 

 

Many thanks in anticipation

 

 

I had intended to upload it last night..... but the football got in the way. It’s near enough completed though, so will be done shortly.

 

I’ve a couple of hundred photos too... but will post a selection and then any special requests that are posted. I did have one request for the plug configuration in the suites. I eventually managed to view a balcony suite to take them.... a quite good selection with lots of USB charges both sides of the bed.

 

It was an enjoyable visit. I’d not been on the Spirit prior, so can’t draw comparisons, but taking out these snagging problems, if I had to chose between Spirit or Muse, I think I’d plump for Spirit. I liked Muse...... just prefer the Wind.

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Not quite sure if hoping SS don't cloudify Silver Wind is considered nit picking or chronic complaining, or why the view that 300 is better than 1000 but hey ho. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts even if it is viewed as opinionated and looked down on if it's a different perspective on what is more enjoyable to them.

 

The only time I've exchanged cross words with SS was when they cancelled my cruise pre paid when they decided at short notice to stretch the Spirit.

 

When on board, I've mentioned the good and bad in reviews made. Without it, it's not balanced. I'm no apologist or SS basher, though I agree both exist, just not to the levels I think are implied.

 

I'm a bit confused though because you've said what's wrong with diversity, then point the finger to those not liking ships being musified. Seems very contradictory?

 

Having been lucky enough to have been on wind, cloud (and expedition), whisper, shadow, Spirit and Muse, I personally have no issues with colour schemes being adopted and the general appearance. I quite like it in fact. However, removing yet another small "classic" and adding to the expedition fleet may make financial sense (going by the success of the cloud) but will upset a fair few if and when it happens.

 

So nothing wrong with diversity... Let's keep it diverse. I've no wish to "go to Crystal yacht or seadream" and even increasing the numbers to muse type sizes, that general personal experience is lost and you become "just another passenger". When that happens the whole thing about SS is just lost IMHO and then I completely agree, I would be looking at the rest of the market as an alternative. I have and do use other lines. SS happens to tick far more boxes so you could lump me in the loyal basket it it suits.

 

I was one of the few who got the Muse dining concept on here and thoroughly enjoyed it on my voyage. Change wasn't a problem at all nor the much maligned reservations. However if Silver Wind does go the way we are many are anticipating, then it will be a sad loss IMHO. SS are busy building new ships and converting existing. If voicing my displeasure at losing the Wind is considered not embrasing diversity, then so be it. I stand guilty as charged and offer no excuses. It's not being changed because it's unsuccessful but because another more lucrative option is there. There is room for both.

 

There are a fair few posting on here who completely understand what a special little ship silver wind is. My next 2 booked with SS are on the Wind..... Just hope they don't get cancelled too.

 

 

Awesome reply...thanks for your insights. But please know that my post wasnt directed at your or really anyone specifically. It was just a general observation that in some posts, some people go on and on about one detail and I guess it was just a reminder that iIMHO , Silversea still does pretty great despite some growing pains. I have never been on the Wind, but I have been on the Cloud before it was reinvented and it was a pleasure. My only complaint was that it was a bit sleepy. It was a bit hard to meet people. Folks seemed to go to bed right after dinner...and it was a port intensive voyage, so no sea days to meet and mingle. You said you thought my comment on Muse ifying and diversity were contradictory. I guess what I meant there was ...give it a chance.. Just enjoy it for what it is....embrace the differences and changes but if its not for you, then great. Now you know, fortunately you still have the classic ships. OUr last cruise was in a suite on Celebrity and it was amazing. We did the Norwegian Fjords..wow, spectacular. The only time you feel like there’s a lot of people is if you eat in the buffet , which we dont . Or if you eat in the main dining room, which we dont because theres a restaurant just for suite customers and its pretty and intimate. . I was amazed at how many people remembered our name...not that that one detail makes or breaks a cruise, but it does make you feel special i suppose. We are going on the Muse in November , but we are looking at another SS cruise in 2020...possibly the cruise up the West African coast...sounds fascinating. I still think SS has the best itineraries hands down!

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Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your post wasn’t directed at me or anyone in particular. I felt the need to reply as someone who really doesn’t want the Wind to be Cloudyfied, and have voiced this on CC so was in part an invite to respond.

 

I’ve seen many posts suggest the colour scheme to musified ships is a bit drab. I don’t. I like it and think it’s an improvement. I did really enjoy my time on the Muse, despite the hysteria regarding reservations. I personally had no problems, but accept others did. If SS has kept that model and continued musifying ships including the new builds, I think there would have been mutiny.

 

As I said, none of this affected me. But if everything is made the same, it’s not diversifying, which was my reason for suggesting it was contradictory.

 

Having lost the cloud to expeditions, my concern (along with others) was that financially that decision may be sound, but losing the Wind as well would be a point where you voice your dislike of the plans in the hope they are listened to.

 

With the Spirit now Muse 2, the Cloud now expedition and whisper on world cruise duty, it really only leaves the Shadow. Four small ships (one one slightly bigger one seen in the same light) has become one small ship (Shadow). And then the charters kick in.... that’s not diversity that’s decimation.

 

I’m not adverse to change. Just think this “progress” might be ripping the soul out of Silversea. Maybe dramatic sounding, but it would iMHO be the end of an era.

 

Funnily, I had a conversation a short while ago with a senior staff member. I put across the points of view of some of the older members on here regarding musifying and removing the MDR suggesting SS were treading on thin ice regarding loyal repeat customers. The reply was along the lines of what you’re saying (regarding changes) but bluntly said everyone one is not around forever. It wasn’t said in a crude or unsympathetic way, but none the less, it spelt out that customer loyalty was something SS were happy to gamble with in the search for new blood. I can understand both sides of that fence in this respect.

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Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your post wasn’t directed at me or anyone in particular. I felt the need to reply as someone who really doesn’t want the Wind to be Cloudyfied, and have voiced this on CC so was in part an invite to respond.

 

I’ve seen many posts suggest the colour scheme to musified ships is a bit drab. I don’t. I like it and think it’s an improvement. I did really enjoy my time on the Muse, despite the hysteria regarding reservations. I personally had no problems, but accept others did. If SS has kept that model and continued musifying ships including the new builds, I think there would have been mutiny.

 

As I said, none of this affected me. But if everything is made the same, it’s not diversifying, which was my reason for suggesting it was contradictory.

 

Having lost the cloud to expeditions, my concern (along with others) was that financially that decision may be sound, but losing the Wind as well would be a point where you voice your dislike of the plans in the hope they are listened to.

 

With the Spirit now Muse 2, the Cloud now expedition and whisper on world cruise duty, it really only leaves the Shadow. Four small ships (one one slightly bigger one seen in the same light) has become one small ship (Shadow). And then the charters kick in.... that’s not diversity that’s decimation.

 

I’m not adverse to change. Just think this “progress” might be ripping the soul out of Silversea. Maybe dramatic sounding, but it would iMHO be the end of an era.

 

Funnily, I had a conversation a short while ago with a senior staff member. I put across the points of view of some of the older members on here regarding musifying and removing the MDR suggesting SS were treading on thin ice regarding loyal repeat customers. The reply was along the lines of what you’re saying (regarding changes) but bluntly said everyone one is not around forever. It wasn’t said in a crude or unsympathetic way, but none the less, it spelt out that customer loyalty was something SS were happy to gamble with in the search for new blood. I can understand both sides of that fence in this respect.

 

 

Lol, gotcha. I understand what you mean about Muse ify and Cloude ify. If SS changes the older ships to be like Muse, that’s not diversity. Got it. Totally agree. Guess I’m hoping they do keep the smaller ships around as an alternative to Muse for that different experience. Idk what their plans are for Moon and Dawn exactly. I imagine they will be the size of Muse but maybe they will change things up a bit interior to make things even more interesting. I have to admit I do like the more modern interiors. Too dark reminds me of grandmas house. It’s all personal taste. Hopefully SS has some fun surprises up their sleeve. SS will always feel like family for us since Whisper was our very first cruise ever. So we will always have a soft spot for SS.

 

Funny comment from that senior staff member you mentioned. I’m 50, so I guess I have a good 30years of cruising to look forward to if I’m lucky.

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And PS. I was on the Spirits last voyage before dry dock. We got a good deal on a Silver Suite which we absolutely loved so much and had the most amazing butler. We are super anxious to see the new Spirit. We may have to find a week somewhere in our busy schedule to try it out.

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Whatever management decides to do will be a business decision and I fear that no amount of pleading, will make any difference. I am distraught at the thought of losing the Wind as we all know her as part of “the Classic Fleet”. But, I have to face it...I am no longer a target customer. The Wind was my first SS ship more than 20 years ago. I have three more Wind cruises booked and want to book 3 more segments next early fall, but with the major changes possible, I don’t dare book. The way customers were treated when The Spirit was stretched has made me justifiably wary. And sad.

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Whatever management decides to do will be a business decision and I fear that no amount of pleading, will make any difference. I am distraught at the thought of losing the Wind as we all know her as part of “the Classic Fleet”. But, I have to face it...I am no longer a target customer. The Wind was my first SS ship more than 20 years ago. I have three more Wind cruises booked and want to book 3 more segments next early fall, but with the major changes possible, I don’t dare book. The way customers were treated when The Spirit was stretched has made me justifiably wary. And sad.

 

I feel your pain and agree small voices wont make much/any difference...... but I do think not making noises suggests its a wanted change, which I dont think it is. Understanding the logistics is not the same as accepting and wanting, so you never know!

 

I was certainly very vocal when my Spirit cruise (Venice to Athens) was cancelled and I openly admit was frustrated and angry at the lack of proper planning and disregard for the passenger fares they'd held in the bank for many months. I never even got an official communication it was cancelled. I rang them and my TC said, "yes we've just heard too".

 

The initial "offer" was poor. It didnt cover the increases that happens with time and made a mockery of paying in full at the time of booking. But what happened in the end, I was happy with the end result, which saw me in Hong Kong at the same time as you were there... (Even if it was a very brief virtual hello /goodbye.)

 

So, go ahead and book is my suggestion. The prices will go up if you wait.... and the noises suggest it will happen, but not just yet..... so lets hope with the expense of the Cloud and Muse, plus Moon and Dawn, the pending cloudification isn't going to be as quick as we've been fearful of. And if it is, you could actually benefit with a replacement like I certainly did.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I feel your pain and agree small voices wont make much/any difference...... but I do think not making noises suggests its a wanted change, which I dont think it is. Understanding the logistics is not the same as accepting and wanting, so you never know!

 

I was certainly very vocal when my Spirit cruise (Venice to Athens) was cancelled and I openly admit was frustrated and angry at the lack of proper planning and disregard for the passenger fares they'd held in the bank for many months. I never even got an official communication it was cancelled. I rang them and my TC said, "yes we've just heard too".

 

The initial "offer" was poor. It didnt cover the increases that happens with time and made a mockery of paying in full at the time of booking. But what happened in the end, I was happy with the end result, which saw me in Hong Kong at the same time as you were there... (Even if it was a very brief virtual hello /goodbye.)

 

So, go ahead and book is my suggestion. The prices will go up if you wait.... and the noises suggest it will happen, but not just yet..... so lets hope with the expense of the Cloud and Muse, plus Moon and Dawn, the pending cloudification isn't going to be as quick as we've been fearful of. And if it is, you could actually benefit with a replacement like I certainly did.

 

 

Hey Les, I wonder if yesterdays announcement of Seabourn getting into the expedition business will affect the decision on whether to convert the Wind??

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I can’t comment too much on cruise ships but when I was at sea I sailed on many ships who had sisters .... three of one class and four of another .. and each was different and this was half the fun. When I received a telephone call saying ‘Would I mind awfully terminating my leave and going back early I was bribed with my second stripe and offered the flagship. After haggling I accepted the promotion and at my request went to the oldest tattiest ship in the fleet. Fantastic.

I was only on her for four months but we went North, South, East and West - in fact anywhere that offered good repair facilities.

Air conditioning was dragging your mattress out on deck and sleeping there.

We went to Aden - where we had three days doing repairs, Montevideo (seven days repairs), Durban (21 days repairs), New York (one day for repairs, and Trinidad where we only has a measly 15 hr delay. We then had a quick trip to West Africa before sailing home. I should stress that "quick" is a relative word - and should not be confused with "speedy". This ship could only manage 10 knots - providing there was a following wind and sea!

Which leads me to say I was converted to smaller ships at an early age, and I learnt acceptance of diversity.

 

 

Sent from the magic box!

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I can’t comment too much on cruise ships but when I was at sea I sailed on many ships who had sisters .... three of one class and four of another .. and each was different and this was half the fun. When I received a telephone call saying ‘Would I mind awfully terminating my leave and going back early I was bribed with my second stripe and offered the flagship. After haggling I accepted the promotion and at my request went to the oldest tattiest ship in the fleet. Fantastic.

I was only on her for four months but we went North, South, East and West - in fact anywhere that offered good repair facilities.

Air conditioning was dragging your mattress out on deck and sleeping there.

We went to Aden - where we had three days doing repairs, Montevideo (seven days repairs), Durban (21 days repairs), New York (one day for repairs, and Trinidad where we only has a measly 15 hr delay. We then had a quick trip to West Africa before sailing home. I should stress that "quick" is a relative word - and should not be confused with "speedy". This ship could only manage 10 knots - providing there was a following wind and sea!

Which leads me to say I was converted to smaller ships at an early age, and I learnt acceptance of diversity.

 

 

Sent from the magic box!

 

 

Hmmm, not sure what your post has to do with the title of the thread or my question to Les about how Seabourns’ new expedition ships might affect Silversea?

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