A7R III a Nikon D850 killer? Here you are Dave...

I concur that's probably the driving factor.

I also do think Sony was hoping to capitalize on the delay and possibly poach some Nikon users but Nikon got the 850 out so that is not happening.

I have some reasons to believe that’s true but there are many factors:

 

Other than the niche d5, Nikon hadn’t released a full frame camera in over 3 years. The D810 was about 4 years old. In other words, there was a lot of pent up demand. And the D850 is a huge upgrade — In sensor and features.

 

Compared to Sony — in the last 3 years, they released the a7ii, A7rii, a7sii and a9. The a7rii is only 2 years old. In other words — no pent up demand. A7rii owners weren’t demanding an upgrade yet. On top of that, it’s not a huge upgrade — basically the same sensor. Not really much in new features — mostly a bunch of refinements. Really good refinements but not necessarily enough to get someone who just bought a $3000 camera in the last 12-24 months to run out and upgrade.

 

The biggest issue will be sustained sales after the first initial rush.

Adam:

 

Like your photos! Do you HDR? Colors look super!

Thank you. Occasional HDR but mostly just processing raw.

If anyone is interested in a brand new USA a7riii at a small discount, let me know.

If anyone is interested in a brand new USA a7riii at a small discount, let me know.

Sorry that your experiment/love affair with the Sony A7rii didn't last long.

Sorry that your experiment/love affair with the Sony A7rii didn't last long.

No... I'm keeping mine, lol. Greentoe.com has shared with me a price with an invitation to pass it on to others who may be interested.

No... I'm keeping mine, lol. Greentoe.com has shared with me a price with an invitation to pass it on to others who may be interested.

Ah, so!

If you had said you were going to get rid of yours, and continue with the A6300, I would have offered to sell you Sony 10-18MM which I got this AM!

Ah, so!

 

If you had said you were going to get rid of yours, and continue with the A6300, I would have offered to sell you Sony 10-18MM which I got this AM!

Oh crap... You're in Honolulu... You got MY 10-18!

Could have saved ebay fees.....

How you liking my lens? If you want to sell it already, guess it's not your cup of tea?

BTW.. if you want to cut out middleman... need the 50/1.8? Or I think you already have that.

Oh crap... You're in Honolulu... You got MY 10-18!

 

How you liking my lens? If you want to sell it already...

No - just kidding around!

I have to confess that I am more partial to telephotos than to wide angles and the only wide angle I have is the Sony 35mm though I have the Rokinon 12mm. When I was using a Nikon F (F2?) way back when, my favorite lens was the 180mm.

Incidentally, I do have the 50mm Sony and the 10-18mm will fill in the gap

No - just kidding around!

 

I have to confess that I am more partial to telephotos than to wide angles and the only wide angle I have is the Sony 35mm though I have the Rokinon 12mm. When I was using a Nikon F (F2?) way back when, my favorite lens was the 180mm.

 

Incidentally, I do have the 50mm Sony and the 10-18mm will fill in the gap

I still can’t believe you bought my 10-18 on eBay. Small world.

From DPReview's commentary on the A7r III tying with the D850's score of 100 at DxOMark:

Comparing the A7R III sensor to the Nikon D850’s reveals the advantage that the Nikon camera’s lower minimum sensitivity (ISO) value brings. Photographers who predominantly shoot in bright light or capture motionless subjects with the camera on a tripod will record the most information, be it color, tone, or detail with the Nikon D850 set to ISO 32. However, if they require values above that, the Sony A7R III sensor produces marginally better images...By now it should be obvious why the Sony a7RIII tied with the Nikon D850 for our best camera above $2,000: it's next to impossible to pick one over the other unless you have a specific use case in mind.

It's getting harder and harder to ignore the "R"s.

Please Sony...save me with a kick-butt upgrade to the A6x00 series!

Dave

From DPReview's commentary on the A7r III tying with the D850's score of 100 at DxOMark:

 

Comparing the A7R III sensor to the Nikon D850’s reveals the advantage that the Nikon camera’s lower minimum sensitivity (ISO) value brings. Photographers who predominantly shoot in bright light or capture motionless subjects with the camera on a tripod will record the most information, be it color, tone, or detail with the Nikon D850 set to ISO 32. However, if they require values above that, the Sony A7R III sensor produces marginally better images...By now it should be obvious why the Sony a7RIII tied with the Nikon D850 for our best camera above $2,000: it's next to impossible to pick one over the other unless you have a specific use case in mind.

It's getting harder and harder to ignore the "R"s.

Please Sony...save me with a kick-butt upgrade to the A6x00 series!

Dave

They haven't done anything with the A6____ line this year. In 2016, they kept building up higher.... They lost significant market share in 2016 as they ignored the low end (which does more sales volume). Essentially, Sony doesn't have a camera under $900 that was introduced in the last 2 years except for the current deals on the A6300.

So my guesses -- With high confidence, I expect a APS-C A9 -- Expect it to run $1800 to $2000. It will be their full answer to the Nikon D500 and Canon 7dii (likely 7diii by next year). It will have the blackout free viewfinder, 20fps, larger battery and body.

Where I have less confidence -- will they upgrade anything else in the lineup, or just drop prices down the ladder? With holiday pricing, the A6300 is now $750. By Spring 2018, maybe they drop the price of the A6300 to a new regular price of $650....essentially placing it on the same level as the Canon Rebel.

Meanwhile, drop the A6000 to as low as $400, for the bargain basement.

The problem with that strategy -- those cameras have some features lacking in other entry level cameras, but also lack some key features that people expect in 2017/2018. Not super important things for advanced photographers, but things entry level buyers expect to see -- like touch screens.

So anyway.... I'm fairly confident we will see the A9000 or A6900 (APS-C A9)... less confident about anything else. But if we do see an A6000ii, A6300ii.... I'd expect rather marginal upgrades.... improvements to eye-AF, touch screen, bluetooth/NFC file sharing, improved LCD, maybe with greater ability to manipulate it as a full selfie-screen.

On the sensor level, you may get a stacked BSI sensor which then gets used across the APS-C lineup, including maybe in a A77iii (if A-mount isn't dead).

So my guesses -- With high confidence, I expect a APS-C A9 --

As long as the weight remains relatively the same!

I recently bought an used RX10 III to replace a FZ200 which my son uses - rather heavy for 80-year old hands. Appreciate the A6300 weight.

I could accept a small weight increase in the A6300/6500 body mainly to accommodate the larger FZ100 battery from the A9...and if the next A6xxx was essentially an APS-C A9 in speed, with at least 24MP, then it would definitely be my next camera.

I could accept a small weight increase in the A6300/6500 body mainly to accommodate the larger FZ100 battery from the A9...and if the next A6xxx was essentially an APS-C A9 in speed, with at least 24MP, then it would definitely be my next camera.

A9 focus/readout speed/menu on APS-C frame with FZ100 battery and my growing A7r III obsession would definitely subside. If they could somehow add the LCD articulation from the A77 without making the package too fluffy, it would be an instant lock for me.

We be dreamers...

Dave

I could accept a small weight increase in the A6300/6500 body mainly to accommodate the larger FZ100 battery from the A9...and if the next A6xxx was essentially an APS-C A9 in speed, with at least 24MP, then it would definitely be my next camera.

Not sure about the body -- They may go for more of a A7/A9 type body, the more "professional" body... But I'm pretty sure you'll get the rest.

The A9 was the answer to the D5/1DXii.

I suspect they will emulate the Nikon D5/D500 pairing

Besides, we know Sony won't let a whole calendar year go without something "big."

2017 was the 2 top full frame -- A7riii and A9.

2016 was 2 aps-c - A6300 and A6500

2015 -- A7rii and A7sii

2014 -- A7ii, A6000, A7s

Full frame cameras that are "due" -- A7siii and A7iii -- but neither of those would make a huge splash compared to the A7riii and A9..

A6300 and A6500 could get updates... but they are still on the youngish-side

An A6000 update may happen but wouldn't be super splashy...

So I'm guessing.... a top of the line aps-c will be their big feature product of 2018. Besides, 2018 is a photokina year -- they will want something big to show off. (Expect Canon and Nikon to launch serious mirrorless in time for Photokina)

Received by A7riii....Since we have a lot of A6000/6300/6500 shooters here, I'll do a comparison review.

But here is the spoiler -- Granted, it is 4 times the price of the A6300.... but it is far superior in EVERY way.

Received by A7riii....Since we have a lot of A6000/6300/6500 shooters here, I'll do a comparison review.

But here is the spoiler -- Granted, it is 4 times the price of the A6300.... but it is far superior in EVERY way.

*sigh*

Dave

say it isn't so ...

The basics of the A7riii in comparison to the A6300:

As most people here know, I was mostly shooting with the Nikon D750, parttime with the A6300.... While I liked the A6300, there were lots of little things I don't like about it: Poor jpeg quality, too small and uncomfortable to handle, poorly positioned controls, difficulty moving the AF point, low resolution LCD, lack of touch screen, poor battery life, etc...

Moving from the D750 to the A7riii, I suspected the ergonomics would feel like a compromise. I was excited about the transition, but I felt this would be a negative. I was wrong. The grip is about the same size as the D750. The camera is indeed much bigger than the A6300.... but it's smaller than any comparable full frame dSLR. And honestly, for my medium-sized hands, it's really just the right size for comfortable hand holding, carrying.

The button placement is also far better than the A6300 --- On the A6300, the buttons are simply too small and cramped. The A7riii buttons and control placement isn't quite as good as my D750, but very usable.

In terms of controls, the 2 biggest positives:

- Thumb stick makes it super easy to move the AF point, which is simply annoying on the A6300.

- Ability to assign a custom function hold button -- I have set up what I call a "candid" button. No matter what focus modes I'm in, etc... I can hold down a button and immediately get 1/500 shutter speed, AF-C, AF-wide. Don't even have to switch the memory recall... hold a button, grab the candid, and then go back to my regular modes.

That's doesn't even mention the touch screen --- Unfortunately, it doesn't do touch to focus. But when using live view, it does allow quick placement of the AF point with touch.

And last about the body, can't forget the battery -- Still doesn't seem to be an equal to my D750 battery, but I no longer feel like I need to always carry multiple batteries. On a heavy shooting day, I would still carry 1 backup -- but I probably wouldn't need it, and I certainly won't need 3-4 backups anymore.

Image quality:

Traditionally, people say that full frame is 1 stop better than APS-C. But for many reasons, the difference is here is much more.

You get much higher resolution. You end up using Sony full frame lenses --- many of which are spectacular. All Sony's APS-C lenses were designed and released back when Sony considered the "NEX" system to be second tier for amateurs. The lens are so-so. Sony's full frame lenses -- while not cheap -- many of them are truly spectacular.

Making the lenses even better -- the IBIS is pretty incredible. Shooting at 12mm, I was able to hand hold at 1/2 - 1 second. At 105mm, I was handholding at around 1/13-1/20.

Getting back to the sensor.... I haven't processed raw through lightroom yet, so it's hard for me to compare fully. For now, I'm processing raw through Capture One, and I'm not very familiar with it. But what's clear -- the ISO performance is about 2 stops better than the A6300. I really don't like the A6300 at 6400+.... The A7riii is looking surprisingly good even as high as 25,600 and higher.

And in limited use, the white balance seems far more reliable than the A6300.... and the jpegs actually look pretty good!

Finally, Sony has the right amount of sharpening and noise reduction in the jpegs without excessive artifact.

Getting to features..... With both the A6300 and A7riii, I don't shoot faster than 8fps, to keep "live view." But the A7riii can do it in total silence. Yes, there is risk of rolling shutter, so wouldn't use it for everything. But for many uses, it's fantastic.

The autofocus is faster, stickier and more reliable.

Pixel shift is a bit of a gimmick -- But for motionless scenes taken on a tripod, you can take detail and IQ up yet another notch.

Mentioned IBIS and the touch screen.

Blue tooth works well as a way to get GPS tagging in to your photos.

My Menu: Huge. Sony's menu system has been gradually improving.

But first -- THe A7riii has more customizable buttons than the A6300. Then, on top of it, add in "MyMenu" --- put your most common items into the mymenu, and no longer need to hunt for it. For example, with the A6300... I start hunting through the menus to turn on and off steadyshot, or turn on and off the silent shooting..... put them into the mymenu.

Once you're fully customized, you may never need to menu hunt again.

So missing features -- they took out the play memories camera app. (You still use the phone app). Not a big loss for me, but some people are frustrated especially because there is no built-in intervalomoter. They also took out in-camera panorama.

Additons -- video has S&Q mode -- Slow motion or quick motion. I haven't tried quick motion yet, but to some degree, it can be used as an interveralomoter -- shoot at 1 frame per second and play it back at 24 frames per second. So condense a one hour video into 2 minutes. Could make for some interesting sunsets, cruise ship sailing away from the dock, etc.

I'll share some images over time. Any questions?

So how much can you crop on the A7riii?

Supermoon taken with the 70-200/4.... So this is only 200mm:

untitled (3 of 22).jpg by Adam Brown, on Flickr

So how much can you crop on the A7riii?

Supermoon taken with the 70-200/4.... So this is only 200mm:

 

untitled (3 of 22).jpg by Adam Brown, on Flickr

Dave

Can't view without creating an account. And based on all the viral spam I get from Yahoo users I don't think I really want to sign up.

 

Dave

That's odd... posted the same way I always post pics....

Try one more time

untitled (3 of 22).jpg by Adam Brown, on Flickr

I can see the photos.

Keith

Chrome on android I guess. Chrome on PC takes me right there.

A bazillion lines of code in our tech, it's a wonder anything works! :)

Dave

DPReview just posted an article titled "Nikon D850 vs Sony a7R III: Which is best?" While the title carries an obvious risk of instigating a flame war, the article itself is really quite fair and comes to the conclusion one would expect when comparing two cameras of this level. There is give and take on both sides as features and functions are compared, but the overall verdict: "No clear winner."

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4000816220/nikon-d850-vs-sony-a7r-iii-which-is-best

It's a great time to be a photographer.

Dave