Final payment to be set at 120 days in near future

I don't like this new change. It's not so much having to pay than not having that extra month to cancel because of work schedule demands. I guess it will be more last minute bookings.

I wonder how much is also due to people (allegedly) booking cabins on a number of ships concurrently and then canceling all the ones except the one decided upon just before final payment. This would free up those cabins a month earlier.

We aren’t really affected because we sail at Christmas and do Transatlantic crossings. Both of those are fixed inventory and the prices don’t drop much as time goes on. Christmas can actually go up.

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From a business perspective it all comes down to the company making able to have certainty of how their earnings report will look like, the sooner they lock down final payment from passengers, the better their quarterly earnings will look like... it's a smart move, the company will look be more appealing to stakeholders and this announcement is also done a day after their secondary public offering of 10M shares... all at the cost of flexibility offered to passengers.

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This will also affect the trip insurance market. Insurance prices are likely to go up since people will now have to buy insurance when they book instead of at final payment. This means there will be more claims and higher prices.

As usual you make a lot of good points but this is the best one.

I laughed aloud at the official NCL response that booking early would give people 'optimal pricing'.

 

We're doing the Panama Canal to S. America next month but I think that'll be the last of our 'unusual' cruises on NCL.

Going forward, I expect we'll just look for airline seat sales 30-60 days out and book 'whatever's left' on NCL, hoping to snag a discount.

NCL and RCCL have both stated they want to get away from last minute sales to fill cabins, and move towards more equitable pricing for their loyal customers who tend to book earlier in the cycle. You see the angst when people realize tha last minute cabins are going for half of what they paid, and it's past final payment. That's the situation they want to avoid.

I'm not sure they will ever find the "magic sauce" to solve that problem. I buy "good deals" when I travel, so I'm not the loyal, "best customer" type. This kind of policy will help them, but not really help me.

NCL and RCCL have both stated they want to get away from last minute sales to fill cabins, and move towards more equitable pricing for their loyal customers who tend to book earlier in the cycle. You see the angst when people realize tha last minute cabins are going for half of what they paid, and it's past final payment. That's the situation they want to avoid.

 

I'm not sure they will ever find the "magic sauce" to solve that problem. I buy "good deals" when I travel, so I'm not the loyal, "best customer" type. This kind of policy will help them, but not really help me.

Can you please link me to where NCL/RCCL said they were trying to move toward "equitable pricing"? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to read it myself.

If cruise lines are really serious about equitable pricing and rewarding loyal customers who don't game the pricing system, they need to give up something on their end.

It has to happen one of two ways:

1) Lower prices across the board PRIOR to final payment, to where the pricing is attractive enough to fill the ship.

-or-

2) Be willing to sail with empty cabins (or alternately, ones they give away for free as gifts to productive travel agents, very loyal customers, etc)

But the cruise lines want to have their cake and eat it, too.

They want top dollar from their regular/loyal customers, PLUS they want to sail with a full ship every time.

There's no way to do that unless you dump cabins at the end if you can't fill up at the premium prices you once charged.

Again, the only exception comes from "rare" cruises (ones which only go a few times per year) or popular dates (such as Christmas/New Years).

But for bread-and-butter cruise itineraries like the Caribbean, they're not going to accomplish equitable pricing unless they are willing to eat something on their end.

BTW, some premium cruise lines choose option #2.

For example, Crystal Cruises are very expensive. However, their ships often sail with LOTS of empty cabins, and they never dump cabins. They basically set a price and stick fairly close to it. There's no bargain sailing on Crystal. They also provide a premium product with excellent, customer-is-always-right service. However, you're definitely paying for it.

I am a big "value" guy, so I prefer mainstream cruise lines like NCL, but I laugh when they try to pretend that all of this is about customer loyalty or trying to make things fair for their regulars.

The entire mainstream cruise industry is pretty much all about fleecing the poorly-informed customer, while they begrudgingly tolerate the savvy value cruisers whom they actually lose money on.

We're doing the Panama Canal to S. America next month but I think that'll be the last of our 'unusual' cruises on NCL. .

We are too! What sailing are you on? We're doing the Jades December 7th sailing.

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Can you please link me to where NCL/RCCL said they were trying to move toward "equitable pricing"? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to read it myself.

 

If cruise lines are really serious about equitable pricing and rewarding loyal customers who don't game the pricing system, they need to give up something on their end.

 

It has to happen one of two ways:

 

1) Lower prices across the board PRIOR to final payment, to where the pricing is attractive enough to fill the ship.

-or-

2) Be willing to sail with empty cabins (or alternately, ones they give away for free as gifts to productive travel agents, very loyal customers, etc)

 

But the cruise lines want to have their cake and eat it, too.

 

They want top dollar from their regular/loyal customers, PLUS they want to sail with a full ship every time.

 

There's no way to do that unless you dump cabins at the end if you can't fill up at the premium prices you once charged.

 

Again, the only exception comes from "rare" cruises (ones which only go a few times per year) or popular dates (such as Christmas/New Years).

 

But for bread-and-butter cruise itineraries like the Caribbean, they're not going to accomplish equitable pricing unless they are willing to eat something on their end.

 

BTW, some premium cruise lines choose option #2.

 

For example, Crystal Cruises are very expensive. However, their ships often sail with LOTS of empty cabins, and they never dump cabins. They basically set a price and stick fairly close to it. There's no bargain sailing on Crystal. They also provide a premium product with excellent, customer-is-always-right service. However, you're definitely paying for it.

 

I am a big "value" guy, so I prefer mainstream cruise lines like NCL, but I laugh when they try to pretend that all of this is about customer loyalty or trying to make things fair for their regulars.

 

The entire mainstream cruise industry is pretty much all about fleecing the poorly-informed customer, while they begrudgingly tolerate the savvy value cruisers whom they actually lose money on.

Very true! I really think that their approach won’t have any effect on getting less value cruisers that wait after final payment. Quite the contrary, they will have more time (120 days prior sail away) to make their decision.

They may also discourage cruise to book in advance cause there is more time for unexpected things to happen before cruising that could prevent them to taking the cruise at all.

On a side note, US market still have better options than EU market. I found out the hard way that in the EU they have a policy of charging 20% of cruise fare right after booking is made, no matter how much in advance it is made. 400 days is the same as 600 days or 120 days. Prices in the EU don’t benefit at all from that policy since they are the same if not higher that US market.

My situation is that I have to pay 1900€ if I want to cancel 276 days in advance. Outrageous!

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I don't see how this negatively impacts anyone other than for folks taking advantage of Reduced Deposit sales...and even then...??

It impacts everyone in that it gives them an additional 30 days to price drop or add perks to sell unsold cabins and they don't have to adjust anyone who is booked at a higher rate.

We are too! What sailing are you on? We're doing the Jades December 7th sailing.

 

 

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It looks like you are doing a Miami round-tripper.

We are doing the Sun repo from Miami to San Antonio, Chile.

We booked this one early on a KSF deal as MIL as coming with us (hey, she's somebody's child). We might have taken somewhat the worst of it vs. optimal pricing (though not vs 'today' as KSF has been withdrawn for that cruise). But we hit on a seat sale coming back from Chile so that provides some cover.

And that for us is always part of the calculation. I live literally 150yd. away from where cruise ships dock all autumn, but we're not a homeport for anyone--so I always need to factor airfare into the price of a cruise, meaning truly last-minute value cruising is almost never an option for us.

To the broader conversation, pokerpro5 is right again as is so often the case. The cruise lines play a game. We play a game. It continues.

Whether you can afford it or not is irrelevant.

This does not benefit anyone except NCL.

You are getting nothing in return.

It doesn’t make any difference in total amount, but you lose 30days of flexibility, and you are tying down your money 30 days sooner.

The amount you lose on 30 days worth of interest is probably negligible for an individual but multiply that by thousands and it becomes not so negligible for NCL, not to mention that they can plan better and ask for more during up grade bidding as well, now that they have an extra 30days to play with.

It will probably not stop me from booking with NCL, but it may make me rethink the type and need for insurance, and bit by bit there is something taken from the consumer each year, so it is worth doing a comparison trial booking with other cruise lines and land based vacations every time just to see where you stand.

I have no loyalty to any, I go where I think I am getting the best deal.

This coming March it is NCL again, had I known Princess would have the special promo price they had a week ago it would have been them.

I like NCL, the ship I was on last year was fantastic, the easy going atmosphere suites me, you can really relax and do things at your own pace, no need to dress up if you don’t want to, the overall promos were good value, that is why I booked again for this March.

Can you please link me to where NCL/RCCL said they were trying to move toward "equitable pricing"? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to read it myself.

This article is a good overview of several industry leaders from RCCI, Carnival and NCL who said this is the goal: http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Cruise-companies-increase-focus-on-pricing-discipline

This sentiment was expressed in more detail by Andy Stuart or Frank del Rio on an annual earnings call (you can find the transcript for it last year by searching in Google, and here on CC, as it was a topic of discussion).

It was in the earnings call that the 'equity" argument was brought up. Fain, from RCL, refers to it in another way in that article by saying “They [last minute discounts] upset many of our most loyal customers by creating an uncertainty about the prices they pay,”

Please note this is not provided as full proof of saying that Del Rio or Stuart made an equity argument; unfortunately I didn't realize it would be controversial and didn't bookmark it to defend my honor ;)

Norwegian Cruise Line is making an adjustment to its final payment schedule for all bookings beginning December 18, 2017. To align to a consistent schedule amongst stateroom categories for the majority of our itineraries, all seven-night or longer cruise bookings will now require final payment 120 days prior to sail date. One to six-night cruises will now require full payment 90 days prior to sail date for non-suite stateroom categories, while Haven and suites category stateroom bookings will continue to require final payment 120 days prior to sail date.

 

This adjusted payment schedule will further allow guests to book with confidence, as those who book early receive optimal pricing and stateroom choice.

I see. Did you to a statistical analysis or marketing research test to confirm this? i.e. Am I going to be more confident knowing that you want my money 120 days before vs. 90 days before. Define "optimal" pricing? How is that correlated with your due date,

If you weren't with NCL would you honestly believe any of this?

The concept of "equitable pricing" is diametrically opposed to the simultaneous running of a fleet-wide upgrade bid program.

I agree that this is simply about allowing NCL to keep rates as high as possible for as long as possible.

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I see. Did you to a statistical analysis or marketing research test to confirm this? i.e. Am I going to be more confident knowing that you want my money 120 days before vs. 90 days before. Define "optimal" pricing? How is that correlated with your due date,

 

If you weren't with NCL would you honestly believe any of this?

Great post

Nevermind lol

I see. Did you to a statistical analysis or marketing research test to confirm this? i.e. Am I going to be more confident knowing that you want my money 120 days before vs. 90 days before. Define "optimal" pricing? How is that correlated with your due date,

 

If you weren't with NCL would you honestly believe any of this?

Post of the week.

Slightly surprised the stooge acounts haven't piled in to oppose you yet.

It looks like you are doing a Miami round-tripper.

We are doing the Sun repo from Miami to San Antonio, Chile.

 

We booked this one early on a KSF deal as MIL as coming with us (hey, she's somebody's child). We might have taken somewhat the worst of it vs. optimal pricing (though not vs 'today' as KSF has been withdrawn for that cruise). But we hit on a seat sale coming back from Chile so that provides some cover.

 

And that for us is always part of the calculation. I live literally 150yd. away from where cruise ships dock all autumn, but we're not a homeport for anyone--so I always need to factor airfare into the price of a cruise, meaning truly last-minute value cruising is almost never an option for us.

 

 

To the broader conversation, pokerpro5 is right again as is so often the case. The cruise lines play a game. We play a game. It continues.

Last 2 seasons- this repo cruise has consistantly dumped, (only running last 2). Same as TA's which are very easy to pick up the last minute price dumps. I'm waiting and pretty sure, I'll be able to pick this up in December, which will be significan'tly lower then advance rates. I actually hope to snag one of the horn sailings, which is my true preference but NCL reduced the supply in half this year, so hope to get at least 1 of the 4, on the dump rack. :)

My only preference is to late book, so I"ll ride it out as long as it's available with NCL. It changes? So will I. :) Very fortunate to be able to travel very short notice and don't have to think about any budget- with clearly a joy getting a bargain.

Something for everyone, just have to find what is right and what works for your preferences.

The average cruiser books way in advance, pays higher prices, and makes his final payment when the day comes. This average cruiser is mostly unaware that he is paying higher prices than the "value cruisers" who book after final payment date, and even if they are aware, they make excuses to themselves why their booking method was superior ("I got a better selection of cabins!")

I'm very aware that I probably pay more than the "value cruisers" but I don't need to make excuses to justify my higher price.

1. Better selection of cabins is a fact, not an excuse.

2. I like to have a cruise to look forward to. I have 468 days left until our next booked cruise.

3. For me it's too late to ask for vacation after final payment date so I can't wait that long to book.

4. It can also be too late to book airline tickets for a decent price after final payment date.

For me the method to book as early as possible is a superior method.

I see. Did you to a statistical analysis or marketing research test to confirm this? i.e. Am I going to be more confident knowing that you want my money 120 days before vs. 90 days before. Define "optimal" pricing? How is that correlated with your due date,

 

If you weren't with NCL would you honestly believe any of this?

And this is why reps from companies rarely post in here, and should discontinue the practice of ever, ever posting on CC immediately.

The concept of "equitable pricing" is diametrically opposed to the simultaneous running of a fleet-wide upgrade bid program.

 

I agree that this is simply about allowing NCL to keep rates as high as possible for as long as possible.

"Equitable pricing" is a marketing term for "higher ticket price" to woo investors (in my view). Not only do they have a bidding program for upgrades, but they still routinely lower prices after final payment if the ship isn't full. Changing how a market works, without illegal coordination from your competitors, is very difficult.

One way to look at it is that the bargain shoppers now have four months to grab a lower price rather than just three.

so far i noticed no changes of dates for my next 2 cruises next year. maybe this is for new bookings only?

As far as i know it is new bookings only..

So I'm a new cruiser tiring to do a nice trip with my boys before they all go there own way. I thought I got a good deal but after reading everything second guessing myself. What is a good price for 4 in a mini suite. I picked may because my youngest just finishes his sophomore yr at college and it's a better time to bee flexible with work should I scrap the trip and wait to see if it goes lower. I'm one that is trying to do a nice once and a life trip but now not sure.

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This basically blocks me from being able to schedule any cruise in the first 4 months of the year (rather than first 3 months). We have a draft pick of vacation weeks in December for all vacation weeks the following year. This new policy means that I cannot simply hold a spot on a cruise in April when I see a deal and itinerary that I want, and hope to land the week off from work. Now final payment would be due before I even know if I’m on vacation or not. Really crappy situation because of this and the other reasons stated above.

Most people do not understand the basics of cash flow and how this is a detriment to consumers, but you seem to understand, which is a relief. I think many more cruisers who purchase insurance will have to be purchasing policies with cancel for work reason / cancel for any reason; so more expensive policies will be sold.

 

Trading flexibility with no benefit is a bad deal as a consumer. I'm very pro-consumer when it comes to cruising. I'm not anti-company or anti-profit, but this is a website for consumers and the constant, loud, championing of consumer-unfriendly policies on this site is disturbing and makes one wonder...

I totally agree and I am always amazed at how many people think "if it isn't a problem for me it isn't a problem" :rolleyes: