Opinions re: Business Class vs Economy & Best time of day to arrive in Europe?

My DH and I will be flying to Amsterdam from So California two or three days prior to our cruise. I want to book our tickets since the economy fares seem pretty reasonable at the moment. I am looking at flights on Delta since they offer the best return flights with departures as late as 3:30 PM or so.

The debate I am having with myself is two-fold. First decision to be made is time of departure/arrival. Should we leave California in the early morning and arrive in Amsterdam in the early morning OR fly out from California mid-afternoon and arrive in Amsterdam mid-afternoon. The backstory to this debate is that we flew to Rome for a Mediterranean cruise and arrived in Rome in the early morning. We launched into two days of walking tours around Rome that same day. We then boarded the ship and cruised for 11 days - and flew home the day we disembarked. My DH did not feel as though his body adjusted to the time change at any point during our vacation. In fact, he was pretty grumpy for the duration and was tired the entire trip. I do not want to chance a repeat of that experience.

Second quest has to do with picking class of service for our flights. I am not thrilled with the concept of spending more on the airline tickets than I am on the cruise itself (and we are spending a nice amount on the cruise). My thoughts were to either upgrade to Premium seats in Economy - more legroom may make for a more comfortable flight (upgrade is approx. $100 pp per flight so a total of $400 for each of the two flights both ways) OR book First/Business Class going to Europe and Economy with Premium seat upgrade on the flights home. My hesitation is spending an extra $1000 pp for the First/Business Class tickets for the flights to Europe. Spending an extra $2,000 is not a decision I can make on a whim so I am asking for feedback from the experienced travelers on these forums. I can guess that the Business Class tickets will be endorsed by the vast majority of folks who take the time to reply. So, the remaining question is which flights to choose based on departure/arrival times. What have other folks found to be best?

If it makes a difference, we board the cruise on July 1. I am looking at flying out the afternoon of June 27 - arriving in the afternoon of June 28 so we have that day to relax and two full days to tour Amsterdam. Or leaving on June 28 on an early morning flight that gets us to Amsterdam on the morning of June 29 (before 8 am). We could tour that day and the next before boarding the ship.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

First about timing of flights. That is completely up to you and should be based on how YOU handle jet lag. You will have a nine hour time difference, regardless of when your flights are. There are many theories on how best to deal with it - your choice what works for you.

Now, in regards to jet lag, I would be on the flights when I have the best chance to get some real good solid sleep. LAX-AMS would be an excellent non-stop choice, as you could have a flight that's over 10 hours in duration, allowing for zzz. I would not be wanting to fly to the east coast and then connect across the pond - both flights would be too short to really get your rest.

Biz or Economy or some upgraded Economy? There is no comparison between Biz and Economy nowdays - you'll get flat bed seats in biz and an upright sleeping position in back. Is that worth the money - only you can make that determination. I can say, there is a world of difference in how you feel when waking up.

For any kind of "plus" or "premium", be aware that nomenclature matters. The "plus" types of seating are generally standard economy seats, but with a bit more legroom and a bit more recline. Emphasis on the "bit". If lucky, you'll get up to 6 inches more legroom and 2 inches more of recline. Seat width remains the same. "Premium economy" is another animal entirely - they don't use standard economy seats, but rather distinct seating that usually provides both more legroom, recline AND seat width. Inflight amenities are usually a bit better with both "plus" and "premium", but still not approaching business. FWIW, the difference to premium with be more than your $100 for "plus". So be very careful not to confuse the two. (On DL, they are "Comfort +" and "Premium Select".

So, in the end, it comes down to "how much is it worth to you to enjoy more comfort on your flight"? No one can answer that but you.

And, try to stop comparing your flight costs to your cruise cost. Apples and oranges with ZERO relationship to each other.

Three things...

First, if you're cruising in June, be aware that summer is often the time when business class fares between N. America and Europe are at their cheapest; ironically it's when economy fares are often at their priciest. (Real "business" travel falls off in the summer months, so the airlines discount the business fares to fill the seats.) These lower fares don't show up for sale (usually) until March or April, by which time the airlines have a better read on how sales are going, fuel prices etc. So while it's tempting to book airfare early in the booking cycle (11 months in most cases) the reality is that - if you're looking at business class fares - often it's prudent to wait.

Second, prevailing winds means that flights TO the west coast FROM Europe are usually at least an hour longer than flights from the west coast to Europe. Many people feel the added amenities (stretch out, better food and drink, looking out the window) makes business class westbound a better value than eastbound. Totally personal choice, of course.

Third, airlines often have sales on frequent flyer miles that you can purchase. Sometimes you can buy 100,000 - 110,000 miles (enough for a business class round trip) for under 2c apiece, making the total cost $2000 or thereabouts, which is usually much cheaper than the cash price. You might think about this and monitor some airline websites to see if such an approach holds any interest.

If it were me I would leave on the 27th & when you arrive in AMS check in to the hotel ....go for a wander then have dinner & go to bed around 9pm

Then you have a less grumpy DH for the next 2 days before you board the ship ;)

I would do 1st class if you can afford it or true Premium Economy where you do get wider seats & extra leg room

What works best for you

We have booked in Jan for June flights & found KLM had some seat sales at that time

We were able to upgrade at check in to 1st class from PE for a nominal fee (worth it to us)

Not sure if KLM flies from CA or not

JMO

We mostly fly Delta because of our small regional airport, so we have built up loyalty with them.

On international flights, since they are overnight, we fly business when we can and try to arrive mid-day. We like to check in the hotel and freshen up and maybe rest before we step out for the remainder of the day. Arriving early is not for us anymore. We've even "rested our eyes" in our rental car a time or two before we could check in where ever we were staying. :cool:

Since the westbound flight is flown during the day, we return in Comfort Plus seats and that seems fine.

If it were me I would leave on the 27th & when you arrive in AMS check in to the hotel ....go for a wander then have dinner & go to bed around 9pm

Then you have a less grumpy DH for the next 2 days before you board the ship ;)

I would do 1st class if you can afford it or true Premium Economy where you do get wider seats & extra leg room

What works best for you

We have booked in Jan for June flights & found KLM had some seat sales at that time

 

We were able to upgrade at check in to 1st class from PE for a nominal fee (worth it to us)

 

Not sure if KLM flies from CA or not

JMO

I would agree.....

If you have an extra $1,000 and the time, go over an extra day early and plan on just staying close to the hotel and sleeping off the jet lag is a viable option. If you don't have time, getting a business class seat that opens up to a bed is a good choice.

Different people resond differently to jet lag. I fit it is best to be tired when you get on the aircraft. Try to sleep a bit, it does not matter if you actually do or not. Then when you get go to be early the first night.

I a real fan of the premium economy (offered by most of the European airlines and Air Canada). The US airlines are starting to offer it also. It is a much better seat, similar to what a business class seat would have been like 30 years ago.

If it were me I would leave on the 27th & when you arrive in AMS check in to the hotel ....go for a wander then have dinner & go to bed around 9pm

Then you have a less grumpy DH for the next 2 days before you board the ship ;)

I would do 1st class if you can afford it or true Premium Economy where you do get wider seats & extra leg room

What works best for you

We have booked in Jan for June flights & found KLM had some seat sales at that time

 

We were able to upgrade at check in to 1st class from PE for a nominal fee (worth it to us)

 

Not sure if KLM flies from CA or not

JMO

Thank you for your feedback. I can book flights on Delta/KLM (code sharing) - and have decided that flying out on the 27th in early afternoon (rather than the early morning) will give us a chance to relax before beginning two days of sightseeing.

I have priced out first class/business class flights going to Amsterdam - adds $1200 per person but willing to test the theory.

We mostly fly Delta because of our small regional airport, so we have built up loyalty with them.

 

On international flights, since they are overnight, we fly business when we can and try to arrive mid-day. We like to check in the hotel and freshen up and maybe rest before we step out for the remainder of the day. Arriving early is not for us anymore. We've even "rested our eyes" in our rental car a time or two before we could check in where ever we were staying. :cool:

 

Since the westbound flight is flown during the day, we return in Comfort Plus seats and that seems fine.

Thank you for your post. I think I will be following in your footsteps re: opting for business class going to Amsterdam and Comfort+ seats in the Main Cabin on the return to California. Delta now allows you to book different class seats for the RT on their website.

The next decision is whether to book the flights directly with Delta or book flights through Flights by Celebrity. I think the fare is approx. $400 pp less through Flights by Celebrity. Now I have to figure out the questions I need to ask them before booking flights so that I don't run into any issues. Back to searching the forum here on CC for feedback about that topic.

Three things...

 

First, if you're cruising in June, be aware that summer is often the time when business class fares between N. America and Europe are at their cheapest; ironically it's when economy fares are often at their priciest. (Real "business" travel falls off in the summer months, so the airlines discount the business fares to fill the seats.) These lower fares don't show up for sale (usually) until March or April, by which time the airlines have a better read on how sales are going, fuel prices etc. So while it's tempting to book airfare early in the booking cycle (11 months in most cases) the reality is that - if you're looking at business class fares - often it's prudent to wait.

 

Second, prevailing winds means that flights TO the west coast FROM Europe are usually at least an hour longer than flights from the west coast to Europe. Many people feel the added amenities (stretch out, better food and drink, looking out the window) makes business class westbound a better value than eastbound. Totally personal choice, of course.

 

Third, airlines often have sales on frequent flyer miles that you can purchase. Sometimes you can buy 100,000 - 110,000 miles (enough for a business class round trip) for under 2c apiece, making the total cost $2000 or thereabouts, which is usually much cheaper than the cash price. You might think about this and monitor some airline websites to see if such an approach holds any interest.

Thank you for sharing this information. I didn't know that the business class fares and economy fares don't go up and down together. I will keep an eye on the fares and hold off as long as I can. I do feel a little nervous about the cost of tickets going up rather than down. I am hoping this works as you described.

Thank you for your feedback. I can book flights on Delta/KLM (code sharing) - and have decided that flying out on the 27th in early afternoon (rather than the early morning) will give us a chance to relax before beginning two days of sightseeing.

 

I have priced out first class/business class flights going to Amsterdam - adds $1200 per person but willing to test the theory.

Go for it! THere is a world of difference between economy and business and if you want any real chance of getting any decent sleep' date=' business is the way to go. (I've crossed the pond multiple times in both)

Thank you for sharing this information. I didn't know that the business class fares and economy fares don't go up and down together.

Fares are primarily a product of supply and demand. Economy tickets and biz tickets are two completely different products, and since both the supply and the demand for each will vary (as it does for ANY product), it stands to reason that the price of either may go up or down independent of the other.

The next decision is whether to book the flights directly with Delta or book flights through Flights by Celebrity. I think the fare is approx. $400 pp less through Flights by Celebrity. Now I have to figure out the questions I need to ask them before booking flights so that I don't run into any issues. Back to searching the forum here on CC for feedback about that topic.

We tend to book directly with Delta. In case of problems or scheduling, it is an easier/better process to work directly with the airline. I guess, just more peace of mind, especially on a international flight before a cruise. And, it has come in handy in the past...;)

If you can afford it, I would always take business over economy. But that is 100% an economic decision only you can make. Also you could look at taking business one-way. Some prefer business going there to get sleep, others prefer business the way back because its longer and a flight where you won't sleep so you can enjoy the services.

Business or First is great. Makes the flights much more comfortable.

As for arrival times, I am always the fan that for flights that arrive the next day in the morning or afternoon you want your flight to be leaving later in the day so you can have the best chance to get some sleep on the way there. IMO the best arrival time to Europe is around 10-11 a.m. where you hopefully got some sleep to survive the day, get to bed early, and wake up early the next day and enjoy the city.

If you arrived in the morning without much sleep a nap for an hour or two would be good.

Third, airlines often have sales on frequent flyer miles that you can purchase. Sometimes you can buy 100,000 - 110,000 miles (enough for a business class round trip) for under 2c apiece, making the total cost $2000 or thereabouts, which is usually much cheaper than the cash price. You might think about this and monitor some airline websites to see if such an approach holds any interest.

Bumping this to mention that for example American Airlines has a sale (through October) with a 30% mileage bonus. AA requires 57,500 miles for a one-way business class ticket between North America and Europe (115,000 round trip.) You can presently buy 85,000 miles + a 30,000 mile bonus (115K total) for $2257. Not the best deal ever, but not bad.

Note however you still need to find flight availability, which might require a fair amount of work, but if the comparable purchase price is $3K or more (which is often the case) it's a decent savings.

Buy miles - https://buymiles.americanairlines.com/en/buygift

Award table - https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/flight-award-chart.jsp

I do not know what the difference is (the experts can chime in)

I see on KLM site they have a flight from LAX to AMS at 13:45 on KLM metal

Their BUS class have lay flat seats

Delta shows "Delta one" with lay flat seats but twice the price of KLM

I find KLM will have seat sales in January if you cannot panic & wait that long ;)

I have priced out first class/business class flights going to Amsterdam - adds $1200 per person but willing to test the theory.

It's practically theft at that price. Book it and don't look back if it's something you're considering.

Look at how many hours your travel experience is, including check-in, lounge time, and of course onboard. On a per hour basis from west coast US to Europe it's really a pretty small upgrade for an experience that's a world apart, even if I don't rate Delta very highly for their business class product.

My wife hadn't flown business or first class internationally when we first met, I've since "introduced" her to international premium cabins on half a dozen or so trips to Europe in the last 18 months or so since we first started travelling together and she completely understands why we do it now. The journey is something to look forward to rather than dread when you have somewhere to decent to sleep.

Obviously it all depends on your finances and how much you value the benefits of premium cabin versus the cheap seats. Some people would sit in a bucket of horsecrap for a longhaul flight if it saved them $10. Some people won't travel unless if it's in their Gulfstream 650. You have to decide where on the scale you fit. There is no correct answer.

You also tend to get access to the lounges when flying Biz/first class international. These can be a little more comfortable when waiting for your flight instead of having to sit with the unwashed masses of coach while waiting............(that last part was little joke before someone gets their shorts in a knot over it. ;p)

Bumping this to mention that for example American Airlines has a sale (through October) with a 30% mileage bonus. AA requires 57,500 miles for a one-way business class ticket between North America and Europe (115,000 round trip.) You can presently buy 85,000 miles + a 30,000 mile bonus (115K total) for $2257. Not the best deal ever, but not bad.

 

Note however you still need to find flight availability, which might require a fair amount of work, but if the comparable purchase price is $3K or more (which is often the case) it's a decent savings.

 

Buy miles - https://buymiles.americanairlines.com/en/buygift

Award table - https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/flight-award-chart.jsp

Gardyloo, going through Heathrow (many of the AA TA flights route this way) adds some big taxes does it not? Is it only in one direction? Is there any way to see the taxes on a proposed itinerary?

I do not know what the difference is (the experts can chime in)

I see on KLM site they have a flight from LAX to AMS at 13:45 on KLM metal

Their BUS class have lay flat seats

Delta shows "Delta one" with lay flat seats but twice the price of KLM

 

I find KLM will have seat sales in January if you cannot panic & wait that long ;)

Thanks for the info. Do you know whether you can receive Delta Skymiles for KLM flights? Since the flights show up with Delta flight numbers but indicate it is KLM equipment, I am guessing booking through Delta gets you the miles but I am not certain how the seat selection works. Will I be able to select seats for the KLM flights once the tickets are purchased? Or should I purchase the tickets directly through KLM?

Thanks for the info. Do you know whether you can receive Delta Skymiles for KLM flights? Since the flights show up with Delta flight numbers but indicate it is KLM equipment' date=' I am guessing booking through Delta gets you the miles but I am not certain how the seat selection works. Will I be able to select seats for the KLM flights once the tickets are purchased? Or should I purchase the tickets directly through KLM?[/quote']

I usually book KLM

I do not know about the points so that would be something to check out if you collect points

 

As I said above do check the seat maps to be sure you are getting what you want

 

I would go with the lie flat seats if you are doing the non stop ..that way you might get some sleep

 

JMO

We feel the OP's pain with this decision. DW and I have been frequent travelers for around forty years and during most of that time we opted to find the least expensive airline arrangements. Our philosophy was that we could suffer for a few hours (or a day) and then spent the money saved on a decent hotel, dinner, etc. We are now seniors and our attitude has changed. We now consider business class on flights over 4 hours...and that is even more true on overnight flights. The cost is ridiculous (we are often talking about an extra $100 per hour) but we figure we have lived long enough to deserve some comfort. So now, we have upscale credit cards, access to many airport lounges, and try to make the air part of our trips as nice as possible and even fun.

My advice is simple. If you can afford business class (or Premium Economy on airlines that do a good job like Air New Zealand) then go for it. If it breaks your budget...then suffer and count your money.

Hank

My DH and I will be flying to Amsterdam from So California two or three days prior to our cruise. I want to book our tickets since the economy fares seem pretty reasonable at the moment. I am looking at flights on Delta since they offer the best return flights with departures as late as 3:30 PM or so.

 

 

 

The debate I am having with myself is two-fold. First decision to be made is time of departure/arrival. Should we leave California in the early morning and arrive in Amsterdam in the early morning OR fly out from California mid-afternoon and arrive in Amsterdam mid-afternoon. The backstory to this debate is that we flew to Rome for a Mediterranean cruise and arrived in Rome in the early morning. We launched into two days of walking tours around Rome that same day. We then boarded the ship and cruised for 11 days - and flew home the day we disembarked. My DH did not feel as though his body adjusted to the time change at any point during our vacation. In fact' date=' he was pretty grumpy for the duration and was tired the entire trip. I do not want to chance a repeat of that experience.

 

 

 

Second quest has to do with picking class of service for our flights. I am not thrilled with the concept of spending more on the airline tickets than I am on the cruise itself (and we are spending a nice amount on the cruise). My thoughts were to either upgrade to Premium seats in Economy - more legroom may make for a more comfortable flight (upgrade is approx. $100 pp per flight so a total of $400 for each of the two flights both ways) OR book First/Business Class going to Europe and Economy with Premium seat upgrade on the flights home. My hesitation is spending an extra $1000 pp for the First/Business Class tickets for the flights to Europe. Spending an extra $2,000 is not a decision I can make on a whim so I am asking for feedback from the experienced travelers on these forums. I can guess that the Business Class tickets will be endorsed by the vast majority of folks who take the time to reply. So, the remaining question is which flights to choose based on departure/arrival times. What have other folks found to be best?

 

 

 

If it makes a difference, we board the cruise on July 1. I am looking at flying out the afternoon of June 27 - arriving in the afternoon of June 28 so we have that day to relax and two full days to tour Amsterdam. Or leaving on June 28 on an early morning flight that gets us to Amsterdam on the morning of June 29 (before 8 am). We could tour that day and the next before boarding the ship.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for your feedback.[/quote']

 

 

 

We just flew Delta Amsterdam/JFJ In premium economy. It was just fine and comfortable. Wouldn't spend on business. Class. We were happy.

 

 

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I'd aim for a late evening departure (preferably after 8p) from the west coast to give yourself a chance to sleep. I've flown BC from up the coast from you several times but the time of arrival into Amsterdam (usually) at around midnight Pacific time (9 hour time change) makes it difficult to have a long sleep inflight and it's usually been taking me nearly two weeks before I can sleep through the night for the past ~7 years.

Partially testing this theory, I flew on Air Asia X's Premium Flat Seat (LCC service but with flat bed seats - very similar to the old KLM business class seats)) from KUL-KIX-HNL last week. The KIX flight left at around 11pm time at place of departure (and arriving in HNL 6a place of departure) and allowed me enough sleep to feel good in HNL. 4 days here before the red eye home to the west coast.

going through Heathrow (many of the AA TA flights route this way) adds some big taxes does it not? Is it only in one direction? Is there any way to see the taxes on a proposed itinerary?

There are some user fees for transiting LHR - not insignificant but not exorbitant either. What is exorbitant is flying premium classes out of the U.K. on a ticket where the outbound or return _starts_ from the U.K. (i.e., transits of less than 24hrs are exempt). The longer the destination capital is from London, the higher the fees.

Thanks for the info. Do you know whether you can receive Delta Skymiles for KLM flights? Since the flights show up with Delta flight numbers but indicate it is KLM equipment' date=' I am guessing booking through Delta gets you the miles but I am not certain how the seat selection works. Will I be able to select seats for the KLM flights once the tickets are purchased? Or should I purchase the tickets directly through KLM?[/quote']

 

Yes, you can earn DL Skymiles on KLM flights. You should also be able to choose your seats. If you have a DL flight number you should be able to select them on the Delta website. The exception would be if you have an intra-Europe leg; those are not generally assigned until 24 hours out.

Yes, you can earn DL Skymiles on KLM flights. You should also be able to choose your seats. If you have a DL flight number you should be able to select them on the Delta website. The exception would be if you have an intra-Europe leg; those are not generally assigned until 24 hours out.

Off topic. Meg, DL now has one new A350 flight a day from DTW to AMS on the schedule with the premium select seating. Seems to start around April. Flight is noted as a flagship flight.