What is the secret to get wine paired to perfection with every course?

I always read on here of people with the premium beverage package getting wine paired perfectly or to perfection with every course from the sommelier.

We have had the premium package on almost all of our crusies and usually are in AQ and on our last cruise were in a suite. When the Sommelier asks if we would like some wine we would say that we haven’t seen the menu and don’t know what we will be ordering.

We always get the same answer that it doesn’t matter just order what you like. We then would ask about getting it paired to each course and would get that same strange confused look and basically told it wasn’t possible or we don’t do that.

I am wondering what the secret is and how do they always get it and why we were always told that it is basically BS?

Sometimes I think most people just like to think that they are getting something special or like to glamorize and enhance their review.

If not I would like to know the secret as I would like to have that’s experience. 😟

Nothing to do with cruising but is kind of related to people’s perception.

My wife was watching the Today Show today. She called me in to watch a bourbon “tasting” and since we were recently on the Bourbon Trail I was interested. We were able to pause and replay. They had 3 different bottles from Wild Turkey. Wild Turkey 101 that is 50.5 %, Long Branch 45% and I think Kentucky Spirit that is also 50.5 %.There were 3 people, 2 women and the male that was at Wild Turkey and hosting.

In front of each bottle were 3 Manhattan glasses about 1/2 to 3/4 full. The male was in the middle and they were all standing behind 3 glasses and the corresponding bottles. The male picked up a glass on his right from the glasses ( representing the bottle in front of them) if front of him. The females also picked up a glass on their right from those that were in front of them. They took a sip or gulp and gave their impression. We were laughing because we could see that’s the color of the bourbon in the glasses meant that the groups of three behind the bottles represented that bottle. We backed it up to take more looks.

Since they each were standing behind the 3 sets of glasses each were actually tasting the same bourbon every time but different than what the others were tastings because they were tasting what was in the bottle in front of them.

One was always tasting 101, the other Long Branch and the other only Kentucky Spirit. After each tasting they all made remarks about it being strong, smooth or better tasting and then the one that they liked even though they were a tually drinking the same stuff every time. Toward the end you could actually see the confused look on the male host as I think he realized what they did but since it was live he just let it go.

Drink up 🍹🍷🍸🍺🍾🍻

Strange that you would have the Sommelier approach you before you have a menu, as there are fewer Sommeliers than servers. That's never been our experience in Luminae or the specialty restaurants. We always have the menu first and have to tell the server that we don't order food until we talk with the Sommelier. We've never had a problem when we want to do a wine pairing. We've never been told "we don't do that".

Strange that you would have the Sommelier approach you before you have a menu, as there are fewer Sommeliers than servers. That's never been our experience in Luminae or the specialty restaurants. We always have the menu first and have to tell the server that we don't order food until we talk with the Sommelier. We've never had a problem when we want to do a wine pairing. We've never been told "we don't do that".

We were in Luminae on the Reflection, and after a few days of picking wine we just told the Sommelier what we were ordering and let him pick the wine.

We were in Luminae on the Reflection, and after a few days of picking wine we just told the Sommelier what we were ordering and let him pick the wine.

We do that also, with some parameters which I mention. The good thing about the premium beverage package is the ability to order by the glass, and reorder if you don't like it. It also helps if you are willing to go above the limit of the per glass price. You can get a lot of good wines that way and can usually taste it before your commit.

Strange that you would have the Sommelier approach you before you have a menu, as there are fewer Sommeliers than servers. That's never been our experience in Luminae or the specialty restaurants. We always have the menu first and have to tell the server that we don't order food until we talk with the Sommelier. We've never had a problem when we want to do a wine pairing. We've never been told "we don't do that".

What does the sommelier do for the wine pairing? Can you really tell the difference in anything based on what he gave you over something that you liked? Have you ever found that it really enhanced the wine or entree that you may have never had before? How would you know?

We are always served wine before ordering. Yes the host gives us a menu but normally ask the server what they recommend before making our decision. So when we are asked we really don’t know. And those times that I do know what I want I am still told the same. Order what you like. 🤔

And do you get a differnent glass of wine for each course. One for each appetizer, entree and desert?

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

What does the sommelier do for the wine pairing? Can you really tell the difference in anything based on what he gave you over something that you liked? Have you ever found that it really enhanced the wine or entree that you may have never had before? How would you know?

 

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

To be honest, they just were good with the meal. I have no idea if I ordered something else it would be any worse or better.

Once we were at a Michelin rated restaurant in Napa and did the wine pairing. The sommelier brought out a french table wine. It tasted decent, but nothing special. However, when they brought the food (white asparagus with bacon or something) the wine became amazing.

We usually start with a cocktail or sparkling wine and then let the sommelier know what we ordered for our entree. We don’t typically have a wine pairing for each course, just the entree. We usually request a port or Sauternes for/ with dessert. And often I don’t love the wine until I try it with the food. And they usually enhance one another beautifully.

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We have never had a problem getting the sommelier in Luminae or Blu to pair wines to our meal. We normally only have 2 courses, starter and entree and often have a wine paired with our starter and a different wine for our entree. Some nights our starter may be something like a short rib and our entree also beef so the sommelier may have a wine that works with both.

I usually get a white for the App & salad, then a red for the main course. Depending on what I order, some reds are heavier with more body and some are a bit lighter. Your sommelier should have a handle on that.

We have had the Sommelier pick our wine on occasion but even with the premium package the list of wines is pretty limited and we've gotten some good wine and some not so good. So I prefer to just pick my own, give it a taste and if I like it they can pour it. I suppose you could order a different wine with each course. In the MDR that might be comical with the portion size of some of the items. A full glass of Chardonnay for one tiny bay scallop:confused:, eh probably not.

Murano has a food and wine pairing option, I think it's about $90 though. We like our wine and drink a lot of it, but usually do as the Sommelier suggested, we order what we like rather than the accepted pairing. My wife likes Reds and usually orders, Pinot, Cab or some other varietal depending on how she feels rather than what she's ordering. I typically do the same but I don't mind a decent white to I will order a Chardonnay once in a while if I'm doing seafood. I don't think many of us have the palates to where it makes a difference. I've tried to detect the subtle flavors the experts say are in wine (or scotch). Sometimes a pick up one or two but normally it's "I like that or it's let me try something else".

We've never attempted to do more than pair to our main course on a cruise ship. The ships do have a relatively limited wine list, and I'm pretty sure it was designed for general sales, not pairing to a chef's menu. While the shipboard "sommeliers" are very good, I'm actually not convinced they're true Sommeliers who passed the fairly rigorous testing required (never seen a pin on any of them). I do usually take their recommendations, but they're fairly limited. For instance, on Equinox, I had their rack of lamb and suggested to the sommelier that maybe a Bordeaux blend would be nice; he came back with a California cab. I don't think they had anything French.

A good Sommelier, with a wine list that was designed around the restaurant's own menu, can definitely do what you're asking. Just haven't seen that on any ship.

I think that everyone that has answered so far knows what I am trying to find out. and have answered with the same experience that i have had.

Doesn’t appear as if anyone is getting wine paired to perfection with each course, because like the sommeliers say they don’t do that. If they did that I am sure that most would have to be carried out of the dining room as it would be about 4 to 5 glasses of wine. The sommelier knows that and that is why they say that the don’t do it.

Yes they do suggest a wine but I can’t say it is really based on the entree that I ordered, and not every course. Even then I can’t say that it made my entree any better or worse.

And how would the sommeliers pair anything to perfection? Do they taste every starter, entree, desert and try every wine to see what it pairs with to “perfection” ?

The Chef also always recommends a few wines every day and has them listed in the daily paper. How can he do that when he doesn’t know what I will be ordering?

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

In my experience, I most always drink whatever I like first - and then more as the meal goes on. So the sommelier comes over and I tell them I'd like a dry white, nothing heavily oaked. Sometime during soup/salad/apps they may check and you can pair a wine with that, or they may just check on you before the main course arrives and you say something like "I ordered the lamb and was thinking of this Rioja or anything you suggest, it's ok if it's over the package" and now they know you like wine/pairings and will probably be more attentive and helpful going forward. I've had the spectrum from a sommelier who felt like a best friend to one who acted like I was a bother for asking their opinion so you might have just had "bad sommeliers"

Both times we've been on Solstice we've had no difficulty getting wines to match our food. We tell the sommelier what we have chosen as an appetiser and a main and have usually had excellent wine matches. Often the sommelier will give us a small taste of the wine first which allows us to confirm it's probably a good match to what we've chosen although until the dish is served you can't be 100% accurate - sometimes a dish has come out completely different to how I expected it to be - which is why we rely on the advice of the sommelier.

If a sommelier asked us about wine choices before we had chosen our meal then we would just ask for them to come back in a few minutes, but that hasn't happened so far.

And yes, a good sommelier would have tasted all of the dishes on the various menus and would know which of the wine by the glass options go best with each dish. That is their job.

What does the sommelier do for the wine pairing? Can you really tell the difference in anything based on what he gave you over something that you liked? Have you ever found that it really enhanced the wine or entree that you may have never had before? How would you know?

 

 

We are always served wine before ordering. Yes the host gives us a menu but normally ask the server what they recommend before making our decision. So when we are asked we really don’t know. And those times that I do know what I want I am still told the same. Order what you like. 🤔

 

And do you get a differnent glass of wine for each course. One for each appetizer, entree and desert?

 

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

There are some things we like in wines and some we don't. For example, we like New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. I believe it was a Hoague Cellar Sauvignon Blanc from Washington State that we were offered in Muranos for a first course. Way too much minerality for my taste and we rejected it.

We have had wines that have done nothing for the food, or visa versa. Some wines overpower the food, other times the food just takes away from the taste of the wine. Think of trying to pair asparagus and wine, very tough to do IMO.

We don't always match each course with a wine, often just the entrée and dessert.

We do have our own taste in wine but consider the Sommeliers to be knowledgeable resource people, especially when it comes to Old World Wines that are hard to get where we live.

Miched,While you may already have an answer that satisfies you....I have just recently seen this thread and have recently returned from a trip on Equinox, eating in mainly in Luminae with one trip each to Murano and Tuscan. Since I have had formal wine education, do have a pin or two and some experience in wine pairing, I thought I would add my approach to this question. I have no experience with MDR, so cannot adress that location. We have sailed Celebrity 7 times and other cruise lines too including Princess, Oceania and others.

On our first visit to Luminae we are always approached by the waiter first and we take the initiative to tell them that after we decide on our food courses, then we would like to see the Sommelier to discuss the wines available and wines appropriate for pairing with each person's dish at each course. With the Sommeilier we tell them how we would like to proceede at lunch and dinner about the wines and that leads to a discussion of what types of wines we enjoy (old world vs new world styles, new oak vs no oak etc) and let them know that we would like the Sommelier's suggestions for a wine for each person for each course. It has never taken the Sommelier more than once to understand that I did not like over oaked Chardonnay or a California "commercialized" red blend, because if he suggested one, we would have a conversation about more specific preferences and he would suggest another suitable option. For the three of us this last trip it often meant we each had a different wine for each course, up to 9 different possibilities for three courses -appetizer, main and dessert. Of course we were always presented the bottle and a proper tasting opportunity before we committed to the glass.

All to say though--- to me as an educated oenophile, it's about the wine and how the taste of the wine matches the food choice. And yes our Sommelier did know the taste of the dishes in Luminae and guided me better than I would have had I been left to my own devices, since I had not remembered or not tasted the dish before.

But, as I have learned in my wine education, it's really all about what the customer wants or likes. If someone only wants to drink a Chardonnay, then that's their choice and I hope they like it and enjoy their dining experience as much as I enjoy mine doing it my way. Over the length of our cruise, I would see diners that I came to know and recognize and have a brief chat. Some would only be drinking reds, some only whites, no matter what food was served...that's ok to me if it makes them happy!

Communication from the beginning I believe is the key. Using the above approach, we have always had great service from the waiter and Sommelier in Luminae as well as the specialties. Is the wine list broad, deep and 5 star? No. Especially if you consider that the conditions on a ship are likely some of the worst for storing special vintages of wine, I would not waste my money on a rare vintage that I might find on a ship to purchase by the bottle. Are the wines offered in Luminae or the specialties by the glass drinkable, both alone and when paired with food? Yes, in my opinion.

Especially in Luminae, we have found that showing an interest in the wines and the waiter and the sommelier and their opinions, sometimes brings an extra something to the table, especially at dessert time when the more stable wines and fortified beverages are appropriate.

Good Luck and cheers.

We have had some mixed service and advice, Miched.

We had a sommelier one cruise in Luminae who after we ordered a Merlot first evening tried to fill our glasses with the same wine each time we went in before we had even got our menus. In all fairness he had remembered what we had enjoyed and it was a very busy cruise! He didn’t look like he had time to breathe let alone have quality conversations with guests.

Generally in Luminae we will either choose something to match our mains or ask for advice. We have always been given a taste first before accepting the choice recommended. Generally advice and service have been good.

We have had our best experiences in Murano’s.....The fact we dine there on nights we plan to ‘linger’ over a meal means we will often, to some degree match our wine to our food. We can’t manage three glasses so tend to match to starter and mains.....My better half gives the sommelier far more guidance than me by mentioning wines he likes...I tend to just ask him to ‘suggest’ something. After years pre drinks package of sticking to bottles of ‘what we know we will like’ I do love the freedom the drinks package offers!

On Eclipse we had a conversation saying we didn’t mind going ‘a bit over’ the package...one or two of our choices over our three visits were. Mixed feelings on how much better they were...On Reflection, first visit, we had the same conversation and were told ‘I am sure I can find something you will enjoy...we have a very good selection here within package’. He was right, over the cruise we enjoyed a really good mix of reds and whites.

We have experienced meals with wine pairings on other cruise lines and on land (best probably at La Cirque LV). We usually find them a little overpriced and overrated....We do prefer three courses and two wines than five tastes and five part glasses!

I would add that we are not ‘faddy’ wine drinkers nor terribly knowledgeable! I received a ‘telling off’ one post on CC by saying I had enjoyed a Kendal Jackson!

Miched, I hope you manage to find a knowledgeable sommelier with time and commitment to really enhance your cruise experience.....Next cruise if you feel the sommelier isn’t helping have a quiet word with the M’D.

Miched,While you may already have an answer that satisfies you....I have just recently seen this thread and have recently returned from a trip on Equinox, eating in mainly in Luminae with one trip each to Murano and Tuscan. Since I have had formal wine education, do have a pin or two and some experience in wine pairing, I thought I would add my approach to this question. I have no experience with MDR, so cannot adress that location. We have sailed Celebrity 7 times and other cruise lines too including Princess, Oceania and others.

 

On our first visit to Luminae we are always approached by the waiter first and we take the initiative to tell them that after we decide on our food courses, then we would like to see the Sommelier to discuss the wines available and wines appropriate for pairing with each person's dish at each course. With the Sommeilier we tell them how we would like to proceede at lunch and dinner about the wines and that leads to a discussion of what types of wines we enjoy (old world vs new world styles, new oak vs no oak etc) and let them know that we would like the Sommelier's suggestions for a wine for each person for each course. It has never taken the Sommelier more than once to understand that I did not like over oaked Chardonnay or a California "commercialized" red blend, because if he suggested one, we would have a conversation about more specific preferences and he would suggest another suitable option. For the three of us this last trip it often meant we each had a different wine for each course, up to 9 different possibilities for three courses -appetizer, main and dessert. Of course we were always presented the bottle and a proper tasting opportunity before we committed to the glass.

 

All to say though--- to me as an educated oenophile, it's about the wine and how the taste of the wine matches the food choice. And yes our Sommelier did know the taste of the dishes in Luminae and guided me better than I would have had I been left to my own devices, since I had not remembered or not tasted the dish before.

 

But, as I have learned in my wine education, it's really all about what the customer wants or likes. If someone only wants to drink a Chardonnay, then that's their choice and I hope they like it and enjoy their dining experience as much as I enjoy mine doing it my way. Over the length of our cruise, I would see diners that I came to know and recognize and have a brief chat. Some would only be drinking reds, some only whites, no matter what food was served...that's ok to me if it makes them happy!

 

Communication from the beginning I believe is the key. Using the above approach, we have always had great service from the waiter and Sommelier in Luminae as well as the specialties. Is the wine list broad, deep and 5 star? No. Especially if you consider that the conditions on a ship are likely some of the worst for storing special vintages of wine, I would not waste my money on a rare vintage that I might find on a ship to purchase by the bottle. Are the wines offered in Luminae or the specialties by the glass drinkable, both alone and when paired with food? Yes, in my opinion.

 

Especially in Luminae, we have found that showing an interest in the wines and the waiter and the sommelier and their opinions, sometimes brings an extra something to the table, especially at dessert time when the more stable wines and fortified beverages are appropriate.

 

Good Luck and cheers.

Thank you -

bon voyage

^ seconded.!

Thanks emelle, you said it much better than I did.

 

Doesn’t appear as if anyone is getting wine paired to perfection with each course, because like the sommeliers say they don’t do that. If they did that I am sure that most would have to be carried out of the dining room as it would be about 4 to 5 glasses of wine. The sommelier knows that and that is why they say that the don’t do it.

 

Yes they do suggest a wine but I can’t say it is really based on the entree that I ordered, and not every course. Even then I can’t say that it made my entree any better or worse.

 

And how would the sommeliers pair anything to perfection? Do they taste every starter, entree, desert and try every wine to see what it pairs with to “perfection” ?

 

It seems like you are approaching this as if it is solely the sommelier's job to ensure that your meal is "matched to perfection" -- it is not. It is a partnership. Unless you have some knowledge of wines and what you like/don't like, it's probably not possible to achieve this.

I've traveled with some folks who are quite serious about wine. Often they'll bring some favorites with them, based on their own tastes and perhaps dishes they've had before onboard. They will usually look at the dinner menu early in the day and do some thinking about what wines they might bring for consumption or order. In other words, they don't just wait for the sommelier to make a suggestion.

Appreciating wine is like anything else. It's fairly easy to learn the basics (white with fish, red with meats) but it takes time and effort to learn the intricacies (and when the "basic" rules can be broken).

Any sommelier should have a good understanding both of what s/he has available and what complements various items on the menu -- it is part of their training to know what pairs well with what. But that's not to say (as emelle has said quite well) that your own preferences aren't also important.

The sommelier brought out a french table wine. It tasted decent, but nothing special. However, when they brought the food (white asparagus with bacon or something) the wine became amazing.

This. Wines will taste different on your palate depending on whether you are drinking them alone or having them with food.

The ships do have a relatively limited wine list, and I'm pretty sure it was designed for general sales, not pairing to a chef's menu. While the shipboard "sommeliers" are very good, I'm actually not convinced they're true Sommeliers who passed the fairly rigorous testing required (never seen a pin on any of them).

A good Sommelier, with a wine list that was designed around the restaurant's own menu, can definitely do what you're asking. Just haven't seen that on any ship.

I agree with all of this! A small % of cruisers really "know" wine, so I think much of the selection is based on either affordability or well-known winery names. You an certainly optimize your pairings, but you're to a rather small selection available by the glass.

Based on our experiences on Celebrity, this entire discussion relates, if you are lucky, to Luminae since the chances of finding a "sommelier" between courses or even finding one that will refill your glass in the MDR are somewhere between slim and none. In our experience, sommelier is often just a word put on badges to indicate that the person can take your order for wine. Likely the best experience on a Celebrity ship is their wine dinner when it's offered. We just pair our wine to our main meal and call it a day...or if we are on a package, we just find something that's on the package.

If you are looking for a good wine/food experience, enjoy restaurants at home or in a large city...or we've found some excellent "wine dinners" where Vinyards/bottlers/Distributors and chefs plan the meal together.

 

Communication from the beginning I believe is the key. Using the above approach, we have always had great service from the waiter and Sommelier in Luminae as well as the specialties. Is the wine list broad, deep and 5 star? No. Especially if you consider that the conditions on a ship are likely some of the worst for storing special vintages of wine, I would not waste my money on a rare vintage that I might find on a ship to purchase by the bottle. Are the wines offered in Luminae or the specialties by the glass drinkable, both alone and when paired with food? Yes, in my opinion.

 

 

Especially in Luminae, we have found that showing an interest in the wines and the waiter and the sommelier and their opinions, sometimes brings an extra something to the table, especially at dessert time when the more stable wines and fortified beverages are appropriate.

 

 

Good Luck and cheers.

Emelle, I could not have said it any better. I especially agree with your comments about the storage conditions on a ship, good communication at the beginning of a cruise with the Sommelier, and most especially the last comment about showing interest and really engaging with the sommelier.

Miched; Yes, the Somms on a ship do not/cannot offer the same type of service one would get in a fine dining establishment on land, so in effect, I agree with your statements as well. We mostly bring our own, and that is usually a conversation starter with our table staff. Ironically, this past February on the Silhouette was the first time our "wine" was held back (except for two bottles, of course) so our drinking patterns may change this coming November. Double ironically, we visited the fun and gregarious wine bar/restaurant called Coopers Hawk in Florida and had some wine purchases that were not intended for ship consumption. Those were delivered to our stateroom on day 3.

Interesting thread, Miched, thanks for starting it.

I would also suggest that the premise of this thread – even if it is possible to achieve – runs the risk of making dinner a lot more work than it should be. "Perfection" is an awfully high standard, for any part of life. I'm content that a reasonably good sommelier can help me widen my horizons beyond my instinct to order what I know I like [fruit-forward reds]. The suggested pairings almost always work, and sometimes work very well – the latter gives me a new reference point for future pairings [e.g. Muscadet-Sèvre et Maine sur lie with shellfish (example not from a cruise)]. And I got the impression that the Sommeliers in Luminae are able to provide wines that aren't on the regular 'by the glass' menu – either by sourcing from every bar and restaurant on the ship, or by bending the rules. The bottom line was that I enjoyed the wine pairings in Luminae more than on any other cruise.