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Time needed for European connections


Pearl64
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We are flying from either Atlanta or Charlotte on either United or Delta April 4 or 5 next year to Budapest and returning from Prague April 19. We have made connections coming home through Amsterdam before and know to allow time. We would rather wait than scurrying through the airport trying to make a connection. My question is how much time is needed to make a connection in Europe to another European airport. Airports I am looking at are Zurich, Paris, Amsterdam, Munich, and Frankfort. Coming from the US I know we would need some sort of passport control but unsure about security. What about going from a European country to another European country? Also, is one airport preferred to another? I also don’t know if we have to change terminals or take a bus from the plane like at CDG. Just looking quickly prices seem better on Delta but still high. Should I only look at flights that have at least three hours for European connections?

 

We used to be able to purchase economy plus or whatever it is now called but I did not see it as an option and business class is out of our price range unfortunately.

 

Thank you for your help.

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Paris and Frankfurt you need to allow at least 90 minutes, lean towards 120 minutes, particularly as you arrive into Europe. Amsterdam is fine with 90 minutes. Munich is probably the most efficient, although haven't flown in/out of Zurich.

 

Going into Europe takes longer, as you need to clear Passport Check as you connect. Coming home usually doesn't take as long.

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Since the completion of the T2E complex of 3 buildings, there are few "bus gate" situations at CDG. Mostly because what were the remote parking stands are now the site of Halls L and M. Haven't had a bus transfer there in years.

 

Concur with the suggestions of 120 at CDG and FRA, but would also suggest that for AMS. It's bigger than you may suspect, and if you end up having more time, the art museum at the airport is worth a visit. Have not connected at ZRH or MUC, though reports are that 90 minutes is fine.

 

Don't think you'll be making a connection in Kentucky, though. :)

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I'd definitely look at a 2 hour minimum at CDG, AMS and FRA. I've been through all three in the last year. Haven't been to Zurich in eons and have never been to or through Munich so can't help there either. One reason that I err on the side of a cautious connection time might be the three gate changes we had in AMS in May, and all three gates were not in the same concourse.

Don't forget....if you are booking now for a flight next year don't forget to monitor your flight(s) for schedule and/or equipment changes. Every airline has them.

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Part of this comes down to your stress level.

 

I worry about the first plane being late or encountering other issues getting from one terminal to the other. I do believe in Murphy's law.

 

Things happen.

 

On a recent flight to Charles de Gaulle airport after exiting the plane you walk towards the terminal area and at the gate we arrived to we had to pass through some revolving door. This kept us out of the secure area where people getting onto a flight were boarding. Evidently the door is set up to allow both boarding and exiting to happen concurrently. There was some kind of breach and our door was locked and we had to wait until everyone boarded the flight until we could exit. We waited twenty minutes. Is that likely to happen? No. Did it happen? Yes.

 

So for us I would allow at least a two hour window and sometimes even more.

 

Again I don't like stress.

 

Keith

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Since the completion of the T2E complex of 3 buildings, there are few "bus gate" situations at CDG. Mostly because what were the remote parking stands are now the site of Halls L and M. Haven't had a bus transfer there in years.

 

 

And I ALWAYS seem to end up with a bus transfer there.

 

 

Along those lines, I've been meaning to ask Flyertalker (or anyone else with better knowledge of CDG) about an upcoming connection I have there.

 

I'm on AF metal, ATL-CDG-FCO, returning FCO-CDG-ATL. Am I correct in thinking that I'll need to get from 2F to 2E going over, and 2E to 2F coming home?

 

Any in sight as to whether my 2E gates will be K, L or M? It's unclear to me which gates AF uses for which flights. Thanks for any info you can help with. My connections are tight, but it was the only feasible way to do this particular trip in PE.

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About that "buy up" to Econ +: On DL flights, that is now called "Premium Economy" and it is its own rate class. You can't buy Econ and then pay $100 or so for the Econ + seat...

 

I haven't seen any PE seats on DL except for AF codeshares...are they selling them in some market? And, the codeshares I've seen are grossly overpriced compared to buying direct on the AF site.

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I'm on AF metal, ATL-CDG-FCO, returning FCO-CDG-ATL. Am I correct in thinking that I'll need to get from 2F to 2E going over, and 2E to 2F coming home?

 

Reversed.

 

Since the completion of T2E, they have converted T2F into a completely intra-Schengen terminal. (Previously, it had one finger for intra, one for extra). T2E is completely extra-Schengen. So in both directions, ATL-CDG will operate through E, with the CDG-FCO segments operating from F.

 

Any in sight as to whether my 2E gates will be K, L or M? It's unclear to me which gates AF uses for which flights.

 

Can't say. They have some dedicated A380 gates, but that isn't relevant to you. They may run some kind of regular schedule with the gates, but I'm not aware of what that might be. You might consider checking the AF and ADP websites to see if they list gates in any real-time flight info. You could compile your own data.

 

You fly a lot, so you know the drill....don't dawdle. The good news - signage is far far better than in the pre-KL merger days. (They have learned from AMS). Check your connecting flight on the monitors, then check again. Keep your BP and passport available for scanning at checkpoints. Look for the "correspondance (sp?)" signs for connections - it will give you the fastest route. You will have immigration in both directions, and security screening. And be sure to keep an eye out for SkyPriority signs that may give you shorter lines.

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I haven't seen any PE seats on DL except for AF codeshares...are they selling them in some market? And, the codeshares I've seen are grossly overpriced compared to buying direct on the AF site.

 

The DL "Premium Select" is being phased in starting this month. It is a separate cabin. And, right now, you can buy tickets on DL using SkyTeam connections where the price is under "Premium Economy."

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The DL "Premium Select" is being phased in starting this month. It is a separate cabin. And, right now, you can buy tickets on DL using SkyTeam connections where the price is under "Premium Economy."

 

They've been showing it ( premium select) out of DTW for some time...but it's all DL codeshares on AF. Waiting for the actual DL PE. I checked out of ATL today, on the thought that is where they would first appear....still only seeing the AF flights,

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Reversed.

 

You fly a lot, so you know the drill....don't dawdle. The good news - signage is far far better than in the pre-KL merger days...... You will have immigration in both directions, and security screening. And be sure to keep an eye out for SkyPriority signs that may give you shorter lines.

 

Thank you! I actually have it in my notes as reverse of what I typed...guess my coffee hadn't hit me yet yesterday. But thank you for confirming what I thought I was understanding but wasn't sure.

 

I agree... signage has gotten better there but I still generally dislike CDG. Had to do it this trip though for PE. Aware of the. immigration/security reqs. and will absolutely be watching for SP signs and not dawdling!

 

 

They've been showing it ( premium select) out of DTW for some time...but it's all DL codeshares on AF. Waiting for the actual DL PE. I checked out of ATL today, on the thought that is where they would first appear....still only seeing the AF flights,

 

Delta Premium Select is slated to begin, I believe, with selected flights out of DTW to Asia later this fall.

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Part of this comes down to your stress level.

 

I worry about the first plane being late or encountering other issues getting from one terminal to the other. I do believe in Murphy's law.

 

Things happen.

 

On a recent flight to Charles de Gaulle airport after exiting the plane you walk towards the terminal area and at the gate we arrived to we had to pass through some revolving door. This kept us out of the secure area where people getting onto a flight were boarding. Evidently the door is set up to allow both boarding and exiting to happen concurrently. There was some kind of breach and our door was locked and we had to wait until everyone boarded the flight until we could exit. We waited twenty minutes. Is that likely to happen? No. Did it happen? Yes.

 

So for us I would allow at least a two hour window and sometimes even more.

 

Again I don't like stress.

 

Keith

 

Another potential delay is increased security checks in response to the regular (over the last 2-3 years) terrorist attacks. I too dislike stress and prefer to set plenty of time aside - I would be closer to 3 hours than 2 hours for Check-In, especially at Amsterdam because the airport is huge and 15-20 minute walks to Gates is quite possible.

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For Zurich -- allow 90 minutes. From International Concourse E to Euro zone (A/B), you need to pass through security, take the train to the main terminal area and then passport control. Last time 20 minutes -- but no one at security and passport control (most ideal).

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So Delta is going to have Basic Economy, Main Cabin, Comfort+, Premium Select, First Class and DeltaOne.

 

Not all on the same aircraft, but it's getting so you can't tell the cabin products without a scorecard.

 

And, when I start looking at the various products on other airlines and try to relate them to my home base airline (DL) my head starts to spin.

 

Thanks Watebug, I'll stop shopping DL's PE product for now...Asia was last year for us.

 

If you get a chance, could you post on here a little summary of you AF PE experience to Europe?

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And, when I start looking at the various products on other airlines and try to relate them to my home base airline (DL) my head starts to spin.

 

Thanks Watebug, I'll stop shopping DL's PE product for now...Asia was last year for us.

 

If you get a chance, could you post on here a little summary of you AF PE experience to Europe?

 

With AF you really need to look at the specific equipment on your route. But most of their PE seats do not recline. Sure, you get more leg room and better food/service. But Business Class it is not.

 

Hank

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With AF you really need to look at the specific equipment on your route. But most of their PE seats do not recline. Sure, you get more leg room and better food/service. But Business Class it is not.

 

Hank

 

Aware that no PE is lie flat or angle. For just a TA, many leisure flyers are just looking for more comfortable passage for a middle distance overnight flight. PE's do have more recline and space than economy on all airlines offering the product.

 

I'm wondering how does AF, Lufthansa, AA ( which does have some flights...if one doesn't have an equipment change) and AC compare on this niche product. One might also have to throw in Norwegian's business class, which is comparable to a PE product. This is TA only, I'm referring to.

 

I've been looking at AF and LH because they allow more mix and match class options on their websites for trips there and back. But, AA's product looks pretty decent.

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Thanks Watebug, I'll stop shopping DL's PE product for now...Asia was last year for us.

 

If you get a chance, could you post on here a little summary of you AF PE experience to Europe?

 

Yes, certainly. Will be a couple of weeks til I'm back but I will post then.

 

 

With AF you really need to look at the specific equipment on your route. But most of their PE seats do not recline. Sure, you get more leg room and better food/service. But Business Class it is not.

 

Hank

 

Thank you, I'm well aware that PE and biz are two different products. It looks like I'll be on a 772 and I aware that the seats only "recline" by sliding forward within a fixed shell.

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We have not changed at Zurich but have at the rest. Our pick would be Munich...hands down.

 

The real issue is sometimes the unexpected. Something like a security event. Happened to us changing planes in LHR. We saw lots of suits running around. It was obvious that there was some sort of issue. Even more so when we turned the corner.

 

A terminal transfer that should have taken/usually takes anywhere for 30 to 90 minutes 180 minutes. Even longer for those who arrived later. It was afternoon. The line up just got worse as more flights came in. Security was overwhelmed. We had a later flight. Lots of people in the line missed their connections to North American destinations.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We finally secured our flights. Going we are ATL to AMS to BUD on Delta and KLM. We have almost three hours in AMS. I feel somewhat comfortable with that. We paid extra for the long flight and got Delta comfort. It is a Delta operated flight so we were able to do that more reasonably than premium economy. I know there is not a lot of difference but the price point was doable. On the way home from Prague we are flying AirFrance connecting in CDG before going to ATL. We did splurge for the premium economy for this portion. Time will tell if this is better. We have 2 hours exactly at CDG and hopefully that will be enough time. Since we have a larger baggage limit coming home we will probably check our carryons with the exception of necessary items such as medicine and things we may need for the journey. I will need to keep abreast of what electronics are allowed in the cabin. If we get hung up in CDG, we will just have to deal with it. It is on the way home and not going to the cruise. If I understand correctly, we will not have to worry about picking up luggage until we arrive in Atlanta. Finding longer connections was a challenge unless we wanted more connections. I truly do not understand how less than an hour connect time in either CDG or AMS is viable. We know we cannot dilly dally!

 

Thanks for everyone’s experiences.

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Pearl64,

You should be fine at both AMS and CDG if your flights are on time.

Do monitor your reservations from time to time watching for time and equipment changes. Delta adjusts its schedule each weekend and usually by Sunday night any glitches are straightened out.

CDG is very well marked in terminal 2 which is where you will more than likely connect. There are multiple concourses but just use the overhead signage and you will be fine. You may have a bus connection but it too is clearly marked.

Glad you got everything worked out.

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We have almost three hours in AMS. I feel somewhat comfortable with that....

 

 

On the way home from Prague we are flying AirFrance connecting in CDG before going to ATL. We did splurge for the premium economy for this portion. Time will tell if this is better.

 

 

We have 2 hours exactly at CDG and hopefully that will be enough time......

 

I will need to keep abreast of what electronics are allowed in the cabin.....

 

If I understand correctly, we will not have to worry about picking up luggage until we arrive in Atlanta.

 

3 hours is fine at AMS. It's a large airport but well marked (in English) and staff generally speak English.

 

 

Air France PE: Definitely more legroom than coach, and there's a foot rest. The seats recline a bit more than coach and have a legrest that comes up a little. I didn't find the seat all that great but for daytime it's fine; for overnight and trying to sleep, it's a far cry from business class. The headrest is also adjustable, and you'll have a bottle of water, pillow and blanket at your seat, along with noise reducing headphones. Shortly after takeoff they'll give you an amenity kit with socks, eye shade, headphone ear covers and dental kit.

 

 

Two hours at CDB is doable but don't dawdle. I recently made a connection there with just 1 hour. With immigration and changing terminals, it barely gave me time for the restroom. My flight was in the middle of boarding when I got to my gate. Terminal 2E is in multiple buildings but signage at CDG is much better than it used to be and there are buses and/or a tram to take when needed.

 

 

Electronics in the cabin: I don't recall any particular restrictions, and this was just a week and a half ago. I charged my phone* in flight and read a book on my ipad.

 

Correct, you will not see your luggage until ATL. On the way over you'll have passport control and security at AMS. On the way home you'll have passport control at CDG.

 

 

*I mentioned charging my phone in flight: In AF PE there were 2 outlets and 2 USB ports between the seats. On the way over neither outlet worked and only one USB port worked. On the way back, neither USB port worked and only one outlet worked. Very limited anecdotal experience, but having only had a 25% success rate on two different AF aircraft, I wouldn't count on these working on your flight, LOL

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