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Azamara First-Timer Reacts to Itinerary Changes


Maya_C
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On the October 15 Spain Intensive cruise on Journey, the arrival and departure times for Seville were recently changed. Instead of 1 1/2 days in Seville, we have only one day there. In hyping this change, Azamara said we’d have “even more time” in Seville. The “more time” they gave us was in the middle of the night, when most of us sleep and the major sights are not open.

 

Azamara placed the blame for this change on Mother Nature: “We’ve revised your arrival and departure in Seville to coincide with proper tidal conditions in the Guadalquivir River.” My question is why the original schedule didn't coincide with proper tidal conditions. According to scientists, tides are the world's most predictable natural phenomenon, affected only by storms. Couldn’t Azamara have consulted the Seville Port Authority sooner, instead of advertising a schedule based on wishful thinking and then changing it two months before departure? The schedule for 4 out of the 5 ports we will visit recently changed, in one case shortening our time in port by 30%.

 

This is my first Azamara cruise and, with all the discussions on this board about port switches and schedule changes after final payment, I’ve learned that Azamara itineraries can’t be trusted. I will remember that when I shop for future cruises.

Edited by Maya_C
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All cruise lines have terms and conditions that say the itinerary can be changed at any time and that quite often happens either before the cruise, or during it. Recently the Celebrity Silhouette was unable to get into St Petersburg on any of the 3 scheduled days there, even though other ships did manage to dock there.

 

 

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All cruise lines have terms and conditions that say the itinerary can be changed at any time and that quite often happens either before the cruise, or during it. Recently the Celebrity Silhouette was unable to get into St Petersburg on any of the 3 scheduled days there, even though other ships did manage to dock there.

 

 

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That was purely down to prevailing weather conditions at the time, not to bad future planning by the cruise line has it seems to be in this case.

Edited by Bloodaxe
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Yes, but the winds were the same for all ships, other managed to get in.

 

 

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The Celebrity captain took his decision to stay out on the grounds of safety.

Anyway that's hardly relevant to this post, weather is unpredictable months in advance but tide times are totally predictable and should be planned into the itineraries.

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I think what Host Grandma is pointing to is that there is always a potential for cruise itineraries to shift - for a multitiude of reasons (politics, weather, tide, and so on). Any cruise line will have these so Azamara is not alone here.

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All cruise lines have terms and conditions that say the itinerary can be changed at any time and that quite often happens either before the cruise, or during it. Recently the Celebrity Silhouette was unable to get into St Petersburg on any of the 3 scheduled days there, even though other ships did manage to dock there.

 

 

This is completely irrelevant. I suggest you read the Opps post again.

 

I’ve missed many ports throughout the years because of wind, swell, medical diversions, Celebrity’s M-class infamous pod problems, the Ukraine conflict and more. I’ve always reluctantly accepted these itinerary changes. This situation however is very different. Sailing up and down the river into Seville and the city itself are undoubtedly the highlight of this cruise for many on board. Slashing the overnight in Seville one week after final payment (!) because of tidal conditions that would have been perfectly known when this itinerary first went up for sale almost 3 years ago is borderline deceiving. Actually, it is deceiving.

 

Floris

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I think what Host Grandma is pointing to is that there is always a potential for cruise itineraries to shift - for a multitiude of reasons (politics, weather, tide, and so on). Any cruise line will have these so Azamara is not alone here.

 

 

That's very true but while some things are unpredictable tides are not and can be planned for in advance.

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Yes, but the winds were the same for all ships, other managed to get in.

 

 

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Others managed to get in earlier. The port authority in St Petersburg did not allow the Celebrity captain to dock. It's a bit unfair to blame Celebrity or its captain when they weren't allowed to dock. They tried for two days to get clearance and just couldn't do it.

 

OP considers this a loss, but others might welcome two full evenings in port in a addition to the full day. I do understand that the timing of the change isn't a good thing, but you need to be flexible when cruising. We've lost ports due to strikes and political and even had to scramble to find a new cruise when an itinerary was changed due to political unrest in Turkey.

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OP considers this a loss, but others might welcome two full evenings in port in a addition to the full day.

 

We had two evenings in port in the original schedule, which included one overnight and a departure at 10 PM. We also had a half day after arrival in port, as well as the next full day. That half day disappeared, replaced by additional port hours from 10PM to 6AM. The afternoon and early evening tours we planned for that half day aren't offered of the middle of the night. Very few people would consider this change anything but a loss.

~Maya (OP)

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This is completely irrelevant. I suggest you read the Opps post again.

 

I’ve missed many ports throughout the years because of wind, swell, medical diversions, Celebrity’s M-class infamous pod problems, the Ukraine conflict and more. I’ve always reluctantly accepted these itinerary changes. This situation however is very different. Sailing up and down the river into Seville and the city itself are undoubtedly the highlight of this cruise for many on board. Slashing the overnight in Seville one week after final payment (!) because of tidal conditions that would have been perfectly known when this itinerary first went up for sale almost 3 years ago is borderline deceiving. Actually, it is deceiving.

 

Floris

 

Shades of promoting Tower Bridge has a docking destination when they should have known they could not sail beyond Greenwich.

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Shades of promoting Tower Bridge has a docking destination when they should have known they could not sail beyond Greenwich.

 

 

 

As I understand it at the time that itinerary was set up, there was a plan to build a terminal at Tower Bridge, which in the event didn’t materialise. I do agree that on that cruise Azamara were late in telling people that the embarkation point had changed.

 

 

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This is completely irrelevant. I suggest you read the Opps post again.

 

I’ve missed many ports throughout the years because of wind, swell, medical diversions, Celebrity’s M-class infamous pod problems, the Ukraine conflict and more. I’ve always reluctantly accepted these itinerary changes. This situation however is very different. Sailing up and down the river into Seville and the city itself are undoubtedly the highlight of this cruise for many on board. Slashing the overnight in Seville one week after final payment (!) because of tidal conditions that would have been perfectly known when this itinerary first went up for sale almost 3 years ago is borderline deceiving. Actually, it is deceiving.

 

Floris

 

Well said, Azamara seems to pull this far to often. Sydney at New Year, London Bridge, Seville. The sad thing it doesn`t seem to stop them advertising what they can`t deliver

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Well said, Azamara seems to pull this far to often. Sydney at New Year, London Bridge, Seville. The sad thing it doesn`t seem to stop them advertising what they can`t deliver

 

It's probably not deliberate but incompetent planning, not unlike the frequent website problems.

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I agree with those who think this was a mistake, not deliberate.

 

While I can understand the disappointment of the OP, in a glass half full approach at least you can still sail up the river and enjoy the sights on the way to Seville. If it docks where we did, it is an excellent location and in close proximity to the sights.

 

Do any other cruise lines offer this itinerary?

 

 

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We had two evenings in port in the original schedule, which included one overnight and a departure at 10 PM. We also had a half day after arrival in port, as well as the next full day. That half day disappeared, replaced by additional port hours from 10PM to 6AM. The afternoon and early evening tours we planned for that half day aren't offered of the middle of the night. Very few people would consider this change anything but a loss.

~Maya (OP)

 

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Leaving at 10 or 11 pm and 6:30 am the next day is really the same thing. I don't disagree with you.

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I agree with those who think this was a mistake, not deliberate.

 

While I can understand the disappointment of the OP, in a glass half full approach at least you can still sail up the river and enjoy the sights on the way to Seville. If it docks where we did, it is an excellent location and in close proximity to the sights.

 

Do any other cruise lines offer this itinerary?

 

 

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Yes, Fred Olsen.

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Yes, Fred Olsen.

 

Yes, Fred Olsen, and other cruise lines also go up the river and have overnights in Seville: Oceania, Silversea, Sea Dream, Phoenix, Hapag-Lloyd, and Voyages to Antiquity.

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Yes, Fred Olsen, and other cruise lines also go up the river and have overnights in Seville: Oceania, Silversea, Sea Dream, Phoenix, Hapag-Lloyd, and Voyages to Antiquity.

 

 

 

Thanks to you and Wacktle for that information.

 

 

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I looked closely at that cruise when I was booking our fall cruise. The chief attraction was the extended time in Seville. I would have been bitterly disappointed if I found out the research wasn't done by the cruise line in regards to the tides.

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I looked closely at that cruise when I was booking our fall cruise. The chief attraction was the extended time in Seville. I would have been bitterly disappointed if I found out the research wasn't done by the cruise line in regards to the tides.

 

agreed. We were researching a similar cruise itinerary and were really drawn to the Azamara cruise for the same reason. We ultimately decided to go with Celebrity which doesn't even go to Seville or Cadiz but we'll add it as a land trip after the cruise. That way we're assured our time there.

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I am sailing on this cruise and was somewhat surprised to read about the changes on CC rather than hearing from Azamara or my TA.

In these situations (like everything else in life) there are three things you can do

1 Let it bug, and frustrate the life out of you.

2 Do something about it. Other than cancelling options are limited

3 Change the way you think about it.

I've chosen option 3. I'm still going to have a great time on board, I'm going to enjoy the ports irrespectively, hopefully, meet some like-minded cruisers and enjoy the sunshine.

 

In relation to Seville, I did some research with a friend who lives in Southern Spain.

Her comments were very interesting and worth considering.

Rivers don't just need tides to allow ship passages, they need the source river to contribute to the water levels.

Considering the summer Southern Spain has had water levels are low in all rivers.

It has been well documented about travel restrictions on River cruises this summer, the same applies to cruising up the Guadalquivir River.

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Windstar will be just as affected by changes in the water in the river!

 

 

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This thread is about a cruise in mid October not mid Summer.

Could be flooding by then and Azamara themselves have said the changes are all about the tides.

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I am sailing on this cruise and was somewhat surprised to read about the changes on CC rather than hearing from Azamara or my TA.

In these situations (like everything else in life) there are three things you can do

1 Let it bug, and frustrate the life out of you.

2 Do something about it. Other than cancelling options are limited

3 Change the way you think about it.

I've chosen option 3. I'm still going to have a great time on board, I'm going to enjoy the ports irrespectively, hopefully, meet some like-minded cruisers and enjoy the sunshine.

 

In relation to Seville, I did some research with a friend who lives in Southern Spain.

Her comments were very interesting and worth considering.

Rivers don't just need tides to allow ship passages, they need the source river to contribute to the water levels.

Considering the summer Southern Spain has had water levels are low in all rivers.

It has been well documented about travel restrictions on River cruises this summer, the same applies to cruising up the Guadalquivir River.

 

Thanks for that informative post concerning river levels in Spain.

 

I hope we are not headed to a time when, as in river cruise ships, the draughts of various ocean ships becomes an issue and a concern that should be researched.

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