Why are the Princess theaters so small?

Does it say anything in the Patter about saving seats? On another line where it does' date=' I take a seat. If the person says anything, I suggest that HE get a staff person and explain why he is permitted to violate the written policy. One night I did this to a single person saving 13 seats! I told him that his group needed to get their act together, not send him as the errand boy.

 

But I'm not a nice person.[/quote']

 

13 seats? Wow! That must be a record for selfish and rude behavior. :mad: Didn’t he hear the pre-show announcement that there is no seat saving. It’s usually announced several times before show time.

We once saw in the Princess theater a “Mrs. Seat Hog“ save 8 seats in the 3rd row, center. It was a packed theater. Other PAXs tried to sit in the vacant seats but Mrs. Chair Hog said they were “reserved and saved” and ran other PAXs off.

About 5 minutes before show time, a PAX, and DH, sat down in 2 of the still vacant “reserved and saved” seats. Seats not next to Mrs. Chair Hog, but vacant seats 7 and 8. “Mrs Chair Hog” threw a fit, and loudly started arguing with the PAXs saying the seats were “reserved and saved”. It was a very uncomfortable display of rudeness and bad behavior for all seated close by to see and hear. The PAXs almost went to blows. Finally, a couple of theater ushers had to intervene, and told Mrs. Chair Hog there was no seat saving. Still angry, Mrs Seat Hog reluctantly gave up all but the seat next to her saying her husband was using the restroom. Talk about people behaving badly. :eek: The husband never showed up.

OTOH, we recently sailed for the first time on Oceania, and we found fellow PAXs real civil. No “seat hogs’ in the theater venue or pool loungers. :)

Maybe it’s just different demographics of mass market cruise lines vs luxury upscale Country Club atmosphere on Oceania?Don’t know.

We still cruise Princess and Celebrity, but sometimes there is just too much rudeness, bad behavior, and drama on the ship for us to fully enjoy our vacation and cruise.

Just my opinions, and rant...

Happy cruising. :)

King

I like the theaters on the Grand Class ships. Plenty large, with exits at the lower level and the upper level. Love the Geand Class ships, with nice promenade decks.

Remove the art gallery (other than when they serve champagne it’s empty) and the casino (never seen more than a handful of people) and the theater is big enough. Problem solved.

Remove the art gallery (other than when they serve champagne it’s empty) and the casino (never seen more than a handful of people) and the theater is big enough. Problem solved.

rockdoctor,

You give an interesting suggestion and solution.

Removing the Art Gallery and Casino is a novel idea.(y)(y)

Maybe when the ship goes into dry dock next time they can follow your recommendation?

Happy cruising.

King

Pushing the theatre farther back on the 7th deck (Royal class) in order to enlarge it probably would not work as the seating has a slope. You would probably have to take out part of the Emerald Deck in order to achieve the sloped seating. Unlikely to happen.

Attendance does vary by itinerary. In the Med a few years ago on the Regal there was little problem getting good seats for the first show even 15 minutes before.

 

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I think you're right. We do a lot of TAs with numerous days at sea so pax are probably more interested in the evening shows, at least on sea days. On a port-intensive cruise, esp. overseas, pax probably don't need the diversion in the evening after a long and tiring day ashore.

Remove the art gallery (other than when they serve champagne it’s empty) and the casino (never seen more than a handful of people) and the theater is big enough. Problem solved.

Both the art gallery and casino are revenue producers (or at least that's the hope) for Princess so don't think they'll be removed any time soon. On the Royal/Regal the art gallery is larger (I think) and in a more prominent location (Promenade Deck, near the theater) than on the older ships. On the latter the art gallery is forward of the Piazza on the Plaza deck and pax in the cabins in that area have to walk thru it to reach their cabins from the Piazza, but it's not on any other passenger's frequent path. As for the casino, they're always busy on any Princess ship we've been on, at least in the evening. However, I was surprised how small the casino is on the Royal/Regal. The tables are "cheek-by-jowl" and there's not much room around the slots either--not very inviting in the evening when they're typically more busy. A lot of room is taken up by a large and spectcular, yet unnecessary, spiral staircase from the Promenade deck above.

Not only are they small but unsafe.....every Princess ship we have been on you have to get there very early (at least 45 minutes early) to get a seat and just waste time. Also, there is almost never any Princess staff in there to prevent trouble over saving seats and then they let people sit on the stairs in the aisles which makes it difficult to navigate....one of the few faults we find with Princess....:cool:

You need to clarify if you are talking about first or second show. Been sailing with Princess for 25 years never had a problem getting a seat at the 10:15 show , arrived 15 to 20 minutes before show starts which you would normally do for any theatre show. I agree that people often stand in the aisles that’s probably because they are not sure that they want to stay for the whole show.

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I've been on over a dozen lines and have never been on a line like Princess where one has to show up at least 30 minutes (sometimes 60 minutes) before a show to get a seat. Always standing room only. It's simply because the ships are packed full and the theaters are too small. Not true on other lines, including mass market.

I might suggest that you attend the later shows, if arriving early is an issue for you. Actually, I would suggest it.

We like Princess. We cruise Princess. and...We think that their theaters have too little capacity for their vessels. Bottom line is that if you eat early and go to the show timed for the early diners you will need to waste a good part of your evening in order to get a decent seat. The solution is quite simple. Since we love to dine late (this would be after sunset) we seldom have any problem getting a good seat at the last minute. The show intended for late diners usually has plenty of extra space.

Hank

To remedy this, the "suits" shortened the shows and offered three per night instead of two. This resulted in some very unhappy singers and dancers, and increased injuries from performing too much.

Two 55 minute shows = 110 minutes of performance.

Three 35 minute shows = 105 minutes of performance.

So the singers and dancers were not performing more when they went from two shows to three.

Actually, part of the history was they first tried to have two shows one evening and a repeat one time the next evening. So with three showings over two evenings, there was room for all of the passengers. It was after that then went to having three shorter shows in one evening.

However, they dropped the third show and now only have two of the shorter performances in the evening, so once again there is not enough capacity for all the passengers who would like to see the performance.

If you want to understand why most Princess ships seem to have theaters that are too small, you need to know a bit of the history of their design.

1. It is difficult (but not impossible) and very expensive to build a very large open space onboard a ship. The "suits" at Princess sought to save some money by building a smaller main lounge and spreading out the entertainment to other areas.

 

2. The initial entertainment plan was to have competing entertainment in three distinct areas; the main show lounge, the smaller lounges in the mid ships areas, and the larger aft lounge. These venues would feature different types of entertainment in each area at basically the same times each night. Passengers would be forced to choose which of the three areas they wanted to go to each night. If you add up the capacity of the three entertainment areas, you will find that they can easily accommodate all the passengers who want to be entertained at any one time. So far, so good. At the beginning, the concept worked quite well most of the time.

 

Then new management arrived with new ideas. Entertainment is expensive, and requires passenger cabins for so many entertainers. That cuts into the bottom line. As has already been mentioned, these lounges do not generate much revenue - especially for their size.

So the new "suits" cut the entertainment budget, limiting the number of entertainers onboard. This resulted in the main show lounge still offering the standard shows - but the mid ships and aft venues offered only game shows and music. These poor choices forced more and more pax to opt for the shows in the main show lounge, overwhelming the seating capacity.

To remedy this, the "suits" shortened the shows and offered three per night instead of two. This resulted in some very unhappy singers and dancers, and increased injuries from performing too much. It also upset the pax, who saw this as the cost-cutting trick that it really was.

At the same time, the mid ships and aft lounges sit quite empty many nights.

 

What is the solution?

They cannot possibly re-build the ship to have a larger main show lounge.

 

They cannot schedule more and longer shows earlier or later than they already do. Hardly anyone would attend.

 

They refuse to spend the money required to go back to the original entertainment plan and ship design.

 

What can you do?

Book a cruise on a line that offers the customer what they really want.

Very interesting history.

People who dine late seem to have an advantage to maximize their time but we live a much different dining schedule.

We eat as early as possible (even at home) so we're forced to live with the crowds competing for a decent seat in the show lounge.

To avoid this time as a complete loss, I simply get there immediately after an early dinner (buffet or DR) with a drink while my wife takes her time shopping or looking at photos and watch a movie.

I chuckle at people who arrive 10 minutes before the show expecting to get any seat.

I might suggest that you attend the later shows, if arriving early is an issue for you. Actually, I would suggest it.

We did go to the late shows, after eating somewhat later dinners. Standing room only. One had to arrive way before the current goes up to get a seat. The theaters (main and Vista) are just too small for the crowds. And the crowds are just too big for the public spaces on board.

Ships have to be very strongly constructed to withstand the stresses and flexing forces related to travelling on the seas. That requires strong frames and cross bracing. Large spaces are inherently weaker than smaller spaces. Decks and bulkheads, (walls), provide cross bracing. That is why large cargo ships and tankers have multiple cargo holds instead of one enormous hold. To build a ships theater large enough to seat 3,000 or more people and have a slope adequate so everyone could see would create a weakened ship. Also, very few would want a seat at the rear of such a theater as you would be so far from the stage. Building a wider ship presents a whole other set of engineering and efficiency problems.

Ships have to be very strongly constructed to withstand the stresses and flexing forces related to travelling on the seas. That requires strong frames and cross bracing. Large spaces are inherently weaker than smaller spaces. Decks and bulkheads, (walls), provide cross bracing. That is why large cargo ships and tankers have multiple cargo holds instead of one enormous hold. To build a ships theater large enough to seat 3,000 or more people and have a slope adequate so everyone could see would create a weakened ship. Also, very few would want a seat at the rear of such a theater as you would be so far from the stage. Building a wider ship presents a whole other set of engineering and efficiency problems.

Then how do you explain that nearly every other mass market cruise line has theaters large enough to accommodate passengers who want to go to shows. It seems to me that lines such as Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, RCI, MSC, etc etc have all solved the engineering issues :). The key is to simply build multi-story seating areas (most ships have large balcony areas). Princess prefers to cram in more cabins over their theaters rather than dedicate that space to enlarging the theater.

Hank

Then how do you explain that nearly every other mass market cruise line has theaters large enough to accommodate passengers who want to go to shows. It seems to me that lines such as Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, RCI, MSC, etc etc have all solved the engineering issues :). The key is to simply build multi-story seating areas (most ships have large balcony areas). Princess prefers to cram in more cabins over their theaters rather than dedicate that space to enlarging the theater.

 

Hank

I won't attempt to explain what other cruise lines have done as I have not sailed on them. I sailed once on RCI 15 years ago and decided I liked Princess better. I don't recall the size of the theater aboard the RCI ship.

Most engineering issues can be solved if it is deemed financially reasonable to do so. Any business has to balance cost to benefit. Passengers should do the same. If being able to find a good seat 5 minutes before an early show begins is the most important thing about cruising to someone, then Princess is not the cruise line for them.

The production shows are the ones that really require being there early to get a good seat.

But the nights with guest performers, be it a comedian, hypnotist, singer, banjo player, etc., usually have great seats available right up until show time.

Then how do you explain that nearly every other mass market cruise line has theaters large enough to accommodate passengers who want to go to shows. It seems to me that lines such as Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, RCI, MSC, etc etc have all solved the engineering issues :). The key is to simply build multi-story seating areas (most ships have large balcony areas). Princess prefers to cram in more cabins over their theaters rather than dedicate that space to enlarging the theater.

 

Hank

We were recently on RCI, Harmony of the Seas...their shows required a free reservation...which was valid up until 15 minutes before the show, at which point anyone could enter if there was space. The venues were usually jammed...especially for their larger production shows. Even with the repeat of the shows over different days.. it was an issue. So I think RCI has the same issue.. I do however think the reservation system makes it much smoother. A month before this last cruise we were on the Royal.. and it did require you to get there at a minimum of 30 minutes early.. with a larger group you would have had to be there even earlier. That does seem to take up a lot of time to just sit and wait.

So I think RCI has the same issue.. I do however think the reservation system makes it much smoother. A month before this last cruise we were on the Royal.. and it did require you to get there at a minimum of 30 minutes early.. with a larger group you would have had to be there even earlier. That does seem to take up a lot of time to just sit and wait.

 

SaveSave

As I understand the RCI system, you are not reserving a particular seat, just that you can get into the show. As such people line up for a long time so they can get the seats they want.

And those waiting for the unused reservations to be released will also line up a long time to be sure they are able to get one of the remaining seats when that 15-minutes-before-showtime arrives.

Then how do you explain that nearly every other mass market cruise line has theaters large enough to accommodate passengers who want to go to shows. It seems to me that lines such as Celebrity, Cunard, HAL, RCI, MSC, etc etc have all solved the engineering issues :). The key is to simply build multi-story seating areas (most ships have large balcony areas). Princess prefers to cram in more cabins over their theaters rather than dedicate that space to enlarging the theater.

 

Hank

New ships on Carnival (Vista class) have much smaller show rooms

We only have experience with the Royal Class ships and don't find the theatres small at all. Royal and Regal theatres take up two decks and seat a little over 950 passengers. The ships are good for about 3500 pax without 3'rd and 4'ths. Cranking the theatres up to 4 decks would allow them to seat about 2,000 and would take out a lot of forward Emerald and Dolphin decks. I just can't see this happening. We have never had a problem getting a good seat for the early show when we are at least half an hour early and the later show is always less crowded. Princess could build bigger ships with bigger theatres but I don't think the economics work as evidenced by the RCCL post.

Just returned from 12 days on the Royal, it had the smallest theatre we have been on in 30 cruises.

I don't think that getting to the theater 30 minutes early is such a major problem or inconvenience. Just sit and have a drink or just relax while you wait for the performance to begin. Even when we go to a theater with reserved seats we arrive at least 30 minutes before the show. There is nothing more annoying than people showing up last minute and forcing people to get up so that they can get to their seats.