St Petersburg totally independent,self guided?

HI

Has anyone 'done' St Petersburg without a guide from a cruise ship? I can't express how much we loathe being guided and being herded in groups. In every port I do stacks of research, then we do our own thing using the good old Lonely Planet and public transport. We have been to Korsakov and Vladivostok and they were so different- in Vlad you can just get off by yourself and do whatever you like, but not in Korsakov although we did manage to use public transport.

The point is I don't mind getting a visa, I know it requires pages of paper work etc. but I'm quite used to that. Only problem is you need a letter of invite so that may stop me, although when I worked in China during the Olympics letters of invite were required but you could easily buy one that was not 'real' (in that you weren't really going to stay in that hotel, or go on that tour). Just wondering if anyone has done anything like this. I adore being at sea, or else you might ask me why elect to cruise being as tours and crowds are pretty much par for the course. Trying to decide whether to cruise to St P. On an itinerary that looks great (Azamara) or wether we will have to fly and stay. Thanks for any experience.

Firstly, tours and crowds and not necessarily par for the course on cruises. You are not alone in not enjoying big tours. As I'm sure you know, avoiding them can be very easy.

In St Petersburg, I would recommend talking to one of the tour companies (we used TJ) and arranging a totally independent tour. We had a day for just the tree of us, which gave us the freedom to choose our own itinerary and alter things as we went round. It's quite pricey, but was well worth it for us.

We usually do ports by ourselves, using public transport or hiring a car, but decided that there were too many issues in St Petersburg to go down that route, including the time and cost of getting visas.

I think it's worth at least looking at that option.

If you do a search on this forum I remember a review a couple of years ago from someone who got their own visa and did just that

There are a few issues-particularly that public transport/taxis from the cruise terminal to the city aren't that easy as most visitors use cruise ship tours or private

also the kryllic alphabet is pretty hard if you don't speak Russian!

I think a local hotel you intend to stay at will provide the letter of introduction

Usually the 72 hour visa waiver for cruise ship visitors covers that you return to the ship overnight which is why you don't need a full visa

If however you do intend to get a visa this could be an option for you

However I would reiterate the previous advice that a private tour for just your party may be worth looking at

we did a private tour for 3 of us several years ago with Anastasia

HI

 

Has anyone 'done' St Petersburg without a guide from a cruise ship?

 

The point is I don't mind getting a visa, I know it requires pages of paper work etc. but I'm quite used to that. Only problem is you need a letter of invite so that may stop me, although when I worked in China during the Olympics letters of invite were required but you could easily buy one that was not 'real' (in that you weren't really going to stay in that hotel, or go on that tour). Just wondering if anyone has done anything like this. I adore being at sea, or else you might ask me why elect to cruise being as tours and crowds are pretty much par for the course. Trying to decide whether to cruise to St P. On an itinerary that looks great (Azamara) or wether we will have to fly and stay. Thanks for any experience.

As others have recommended, a private tour would allow you to see as much as possible during a short port stay and you would have no need for a visa.

I, like you, prefer to DIY. I have been to St. Petersburg multiple times (both via cruise and extended stays) and have no problem getting around without a guide. Get a good map and you will do fine.

The signage in the metro stations is in both Cyrillic and English and many inhabitants of the city speak English. Taxi drivers (rank available at port) speak very little English.

A letter of invite can be easily purchased online for a nominal fee (similar to your China invite) or, if you intend on staying at a hotel, the hotel will provide the letter.

If the choice were mine, I would opt for a fly and stay. There is so much to see in St. Petersburg that it is simply mind blowing. And then, of course, there is Moscow, Novgorod and on and on.

We usually DIY in ports.

In St Petersburg the impetus for taking a tour (max group size 16 in a van, booked with a local operator - Alla, great, but I only hear plaudits for the other local tour operators too) was that it was visa-free - its not only ships' tours that are visa free. tho that's what cruise lines want you to think.

Glad we did a tour, though. Made life very easy, jumped the lines, early admission to Hermitage, etc., and we achieved so much more than we'd have done DIY.

But there have been a few posts by folk who bought visas & did their own thing.

And they were very positive about their experiences too.

You'll have to wade through this forum to find those posts, but they'll be a tremendous help to you.

JB :)

John Bull makes an excellent point in favor of doing a guided tour--jumping lines and early admission. When we got to the Peter and Paul Fortress with our tour group, there was an incredibly long line to enter the cathedral. But our tour guide led us to the front and we were inside within minutes. Had we been visiting on our own, the wait to get inside would have been at least an hour.

We, too, avoid guided tours like the plague, but our tour with Alla was fantastic. And, as already mentioned, if 16 people on a tour is too many for you, then splurge on a private one.

I would try for a private tour with 2, 4, or. 6. The cost will be not much more than that of a visa. With all of the top rated tours you can skip any lines. We used Ulko and were very pleased.

Yes, DW and I did St Petersburg on our own during our first visit about 15 years ago. But in those days it was a little easier to obtain a personal Visa...which we did via a decent Visa Service. With good planning you can handle this port DIY, but its somewhat of a challenge because not all signs have English translations.

Last year we returned to St Petersburg and decided to join a small group tour hosted by TJ Tours (this is one of several excellent local tour providers). The money we saved by not getting personal Visas just about covered the cost of the 2 day tour :). I had to smile during the tour, because TJ used the hydrofoil to get from town out to Peterhof.....something we managed to do on our own during our first visit. The hydrofoil is a lot more comfy then many of the tour buses used by the cruise line excursions...and more fun. We did notice that the city has become much more tourist-friendly since our first visit....so I think DIY might be somewhat easier now...then when we first did the deed.

Hank

Hi all

thank you for the sensible answers, much appreciated. I am in bed with a ghastly flu so please excuse if I sound vague- I certainly feel it. At least I'm putting this time to good use by doing some research. I must trawl through searches trying to find others who have asked the same question but - you know - sick.

I neglected to mention that we would be in St Petersburg for three days if we take this cruise - so that's quite a bit of expense for private tours and we really really do hate being guided, on the other hand it's not a bad amount of time to DIY.

So I'm still tossing up whether to actually go on the cruise or fly there, but we are spending six weeks driving around the UK and I thought the cruise would be a bit of luxury relaxation.

I just found out that Russia is 'Visa free' if you have a World Cup ticket during that time - there's another process but it's a thought. Will keep investigating and thank you.

We, too, are looking at 3 days in St. Petersburg in July. I don't know if it's possible on this forum, but if it is, could someone share information on contacting Alla.

It isn't hard. Google Alla Tours.

People have reported greatly enjoying getting a visa and touring St. Petersburg independently. Although all of the other cities on the Baltic cruise were very easy to travel independently (even with our 3 year old son in tow) it would be my estimation that St. Petersburg would be one of the more difficult cities to tour independently (certainly not impossible, but a little more challenging). I'd price out the cost of a private three day tour versus the cost of a visa (plus museum admissions and transportation) and decide which is a better option for you. At 3 days, you will have more flexibility to deal with the fact that you may encounter a few more logistical difficulties because you don't have a guide/private transportation.

We, too, are looking at 3 days in St. Petersburg in July. I don't know if it's possible on this forum, but if it is, could someone share information on contacting Alla.

Website: https://alla-tour.com/tours/

Email: info@alla-tour.com

I can't express how much we loathe being guided and being herded in groups... The point is I don't mind getting a visa, I know it requires pages of paper work etc. but I'm quite used to that.

I enjoy private tours, but I don't take tours for the logistics. I take tours for the value added by the tour guide's knowledge of the places we visit. Traveling from place to place, our guides have shared anecdotes about their family life or schooling or other everyday issues. And even if I read up reasonably well, my research does not compete with a guide's knowledge. After all, a guide has studied years and has passed an intensive test.

Even if you like to do research in advance, that effort is not wasted on a tour. If I've studied beforehand, that simply makes me better prepared to understand what our guide is telling us and to ask more in-depth questions.

Price: Yes, this is the downside of touring as a couple. It is much more expensive than touring as part of a small group, but probably not too different from touring as part of the herd from the cruise ship. However, my husband and I would rather stay at a clean-but-not fancy hotel for any pre- or post-cruise visits and sink our money into wholly personal, wholly customized tours.

I enjoy private tours, but I don't take tours for the logistics. I take tours for the value added by the tour guide's knowledge of the places we visit. Traveling from place to place, our guides have shared anecdotes about their family life or schooling or other everyday issues. And even if I read up reasonably well, my research does not compete with a guide's knowledge. After all, a guide has studied years and has passed an intensive test.

 

Even if you like to do research in advance, that effort is not wasted on a tour. If I've studied beforehand, that simply makes me better prepared to understand what our guide is telling us and to ask more in-depth questions.

 

Price: Yes, this is the downside of touring as a couple. It is much more expensive than touring as part of a small group, but probably not too different from touring as part of the herd from the cruise ship. However, my husband and I would rather stay at a clean-but-not fancy hotel for any pre- or post-cruise visits and sink our money into wholly personal, wholly customized tours.

I have to disagree a bit. Not all guides have the same level of knowledge and expertise. I am one that studies intensively -- some might say obsessively -- before I visit somewhere. As an example I think nothing of ordering archaeological field reports from my library and translating them from other languages (French, Italian) into English to help me understand the history of a place.

I have caught licensed guides passing on information to tourists that is at best outdated and at worst frankly little more than untrue "stories" that they think tourists will enjoy hearing. :o

I also feel there is a small group of folks that simply enjoy the challenge of maneuvering around on their own. I feel I get to know a city much better if I have had to master its layout and its transportation systems. I know where things are relative to each other and how big or how small the city center really is.

Lots of times on this site I'll hear people (who have only taken tours of one sort or another) talking about how the center of Athens or Rome is "so big" that you could never get around without a vehicle -- not true at all, but you don't get a sense of that when you are not aware of where you're going.

I guess what I'm saying is just this: let's assume people have an understanding of the type of travel that suits them best and not try to "sell" them on the advantages of guided tours if they hate guided tours....

I have to disagree a bit. Not all guides have the same level of knowledge and expertise. I am one that studies intensively -- some might say obsessively -- before I visit somewhere. As an example I think nothing of ordering archaeological field reports from my library and translating them from other languages (French, Italian) into English to help me understand the history of a place.

 

 

 

I have caught licensed guides passing on information to tourists that is at best outdated and at worst frankly little more than untrue "stories" that they think tourists will enjoy hearing. :o

 

 

 

I also feel there is a small group of folks that simply enjoy the challenge of maneuvering around on their own. I feel I get to know a city much better if I have had to master its layout and its transportation systems. I know where things are relative to each other and how big or how small the city center really is.

 

 

 

Lots of times on this site I'll hear people (who have only taken tours of one sort or another) talking about how the center of Athens or Rome is "so big" that you could never get around without a vehicle -- not true at all, but you don't get a sense of that when you are not aware of where you're going.

 

 

 

I guess what I'm saying is just this: let's assume people have an understanding of the type of travel that suits them best and not try to "sell" them on the advantages of guided tours if they hate guided tours....

Oh yea verily cruisemom, especially the last paragraph. I am actually an academic, so when I say I research I do know how to research. I think you have our measure in everything you say. I have just written and deleted three sentences, they were all just saying "you got me" in one way or another. Thanks.

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I have to disagree a bit. Not all guides have the same level of knowledge and expertise. I am one that studies intensively -- some might say obsessively -- before I visit somewhere.

Our paths have crossed over the years and I've always respected your level of research. However, just as you say not all guides have the same level of expertise, the same applies to the cruisers. Plenty of people prefer to travel independently, content with the very limited explanations in the popular guidebooks.

If I've done a good job choosing my tour company (e.g. Context Travel VS Rome in Limo)... If I've done a good job communicating my expectations to the company and asking questions while touring, I tend to have excellent results from hiring a guide.

As for the guides who have shared wrong information with their clients, could you tell if they were licensed guides? There are quite a few popular free tours (e.g. tour-with-a-local) that do not use licensed guides. The irony of your admirable defense that posters respect individual touring styles means that we need to respect the visitors for whom cost concerns dominate the need for accurate information.

I guess what I'm saying is just this: let's assume people have an understanding of the type of travel that suits them best and not try to "sell" them on the advantages of guided tours if they hate guided tours....

And this brings us right back to my earlier post. The OP wrote "I can't express how much we loathe being guided and being herded in groups." If someone starts with an incorrect premise, it's likely they'll end up with an incorrect conclusion. Taking a group tour does not require being herded.

Didn't want to start a semantic discussion, and I likewise find you a thoughtful poster.

I just believe it's not that productive to try to change people's preferred travel styles. I love museums and I could argue until I'm blue in the face how much people are missing who don't put a museum visit together with a site visit to get a full picture of things. However, that rarely changes the minds of anyone who starts out by saying "I loathe museums."

I actually had some beefs with a Context tour guide in Rome who led a tour to the mithraeum near the end of the Circus Maximus and to the underground and rooftop area of the nearby San Niccolo in Carcere. Also in the past with one of the official Vatican guides. I won't even start with what I've heard from licensed guides in Turkey at sites like Ephesus -- I suspect they are more entertainers than guides.

If... starts with an incorrect premise, it's likely they'll end up with an incorrect conclusion. Taking a group tour does not require being herded.

The OP, that's me, has not "started with an incorrect premise". My premise was that I feel herded in tours and that I loathe being guided. The operative word is I, not you. A feeling is very personal and subjective. I have never participated in any group activity during travel where I have not felt herded. It doesn't require a lot of people for me to feel herded. I don't like being with other people, I'm extremely antisocial. What others call a small group tour would be a mess of crowd for me. So actually the incorrect premise is yours. I was doing fine with everyone's off topic recommendations until I read that comment from you which I found quite patronising.

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If the choice were mine, I would opt for a fly and stay. There is so much to see in St. Petersburg that it is simply mind blowing. And then, of course, there is Moscow, Novgorod and on and on.

Thank you to everyone for their input on this. Dogs for fun: you win! We actually decided to ditch the cruise and go and stay there for a week [emoji38]. That way we can see everything we want to and we don't have to rush, we can still afford to stay in a nice five star hotel, go when and where we want and make our own mistakes. It was a close call, I had my finger on the purchase button for the cruise quote, but something made me hesitant. I'm feeling confident that I made the right decision for us.

If I think of it ten months from now I'll let you know how we went.

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The OP, that's me, has not "started with an incorrect premise". My premise was that I feel herded in tours and that I loathe being guided. The operative word is I, not you. A feeling is very personal and subjective. I have never participated in any group activity during travel where I have not felt herded. It doesn't require a lot of people for me to feel herded. I don't like being with other people, I'm extremely antisocial. What others call a small group tour would be a mess of crowd for me. So actually the incorrect premise is yours. I was doing fine with everyone's off topic recommendations until I read that comment from you which I found quite patronising.

Any of us must respond on the basis of the information provided in one another's posts. In post #1 you used the word "we" and you repeated that word in post #20. That's a group. Since finding tour operators who will offer tours to groups as small as a couple is a reasonable challenge, especially in St Petersburg, I believed I was being helpful by pointing out that you can set up your own group -- that you would not be required to get folded in with others. I further believed that when you wrote "loathe being guided" coupled with "herded in groups" you had come to your conclusion without having experienced touring only with however many people make up your group. Obviously, communication errors occurred in both directions, but the issue is now moot.

Thank you to everyone for their input on this. Dogs for fun: you win! We actually decided to ditch the cruise and go and stay there for a week [emoji38]. That way we can see everything we want to and we don't have to rush, we can still afford to stay in a nice five star hotel, go when and where we want and make our own mistakes. It was a close call, I had my finger on the purchase button for the cruise quote, but something made me hesitant. I'm feeling confident that I made the right decision for us.

 

If I think of it ten months from now I'll let you know how we went.

 

 

 

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Good for you! If you need any tips, feel free to email (address is in my signature). Just so you know, there are some sites that require a guide - Staraya Derevnya Restoration & Storage facility (kinda the Hermitage overflow - well worth a visit if you are interested in Russian iconography, royal carriages, furnishings, art restoration, etc.; Smolny Institute (Lenin's office and apartment - really enjoyed this visit). You can book a private guide for just the 2 of you but you must have a licensed guide in order to visit (security is tight at both venues).

In addition to the usual sights that most first time visitors want to see, there are tons of other interesting things to see and do - if you are a Dostoyevsky fan, you can visit his home/museum (Sennaya Ploshchad & Vladirirskaya Ploshchad are filled with sights connected with his works/life), the music venues are fantastic, Kirov ballet is amazing if you go during the ballet season, Peterhof has an array of palaces that most never visit (love the Cottage, Marly & Montplaisir palaces and they are never crowded like the Grand Palace and fountain park). Also very interesting is Gatchina & Lomonosov (Oranienbaum) - also never crowded but not located in the city center but easily reached by minibus from the metro station. There is so much to see and do - hope you have a wonderful time!

Any of us must respond on the basis of the information provided in one another's posts. In post #1 you used the word "we" and you repeated that word in post #20. That's a group. Since finding tour operators who will offer tours to groups as small as a couple is a reasonable challenge, especially in St Petersburg, I believed I was being helpful by pointing out that you can set up your own group -- that you would not be required to get folded in with others. I further believed that when you wrote "loathe being guided" coupled with "herded in groups" you had come to your conclusion without having experienced touring only with however many people make up your group. Obviously, communication errors occurred in both directions, but the issue is now moot.]

 

Okay so now I know what I'm dealing with 🤦🏼. Ting tong.

 

 

 

 

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Good for you! If you need any tips, feel free to email (address is in my signature). Just so you know, there are some sites that require a guide - Staraya Derevnya Restoration & Storage facility (kinda the Hermitage overflow - well worth a visit if you are interested in Russian iconography, royal carriages, furnishings, art restoration, etc.; Smolny Institute (Lenin's office and apartment - really enjoyed this visit). You can book a private guide for just the 2 of you but you must have a licensed guide in order to visit (security is tight at both venues).

In addition to the usual sights that most first time visitors want to see, there are tons of other interesting things to see and do - if you are a Dostoyevsky fan, you can visit his home/museum (Sennaya Ploshchad & Vladirirskaya Ploshchad are filled with sights connected with his works/life), the music venues are fantastic, Kirov ballet is amazing if you go during the ballet season, Peterhof has an array of palaces that most never visit (love the Cottage, Marly & Montplaisir palaces and they are never crowded like the Grand Palace and fountain park). Also very interesting is Gatchina & Lomonosov (Oranienbaum) - also never crowded but not located in the city center but easily reached by minibus from the metro station. There is so much to see and do - hope you have a wonderful time!

Thanks so much. Was definitely planning some of those, others I will look into. I have been talking to someone on 'tours with locals' so i could use her for the ones where a guide is mandatory if I decide that we need to go there. Thanks for the good wishes too. Lots of planning and fun research to do now.

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Enjoy your trip. When I was considering another visit to St. Petersburg I made the same decision (land trip rather than a cruise). :cool: