CAS Comped Cruises - Good Value Proposition for a Competent Player?

I've tried to read through the threads on this subforum for data points on what level of play might lead to getting your next cruise comped with CAS, but not finding very much in terms of specific info on this forum. It sounds like it's based on theoretical or actual losses (similar to land-casino comps) and obviously there's the standard cashback system (where X points earns you Y in free play), but that's not really the part I'm interested in.

I could be completely wrong about this, but my assumption is that with standard slots they'd have it worked out where one's theoretical loss would have to be on the order of the cost (or higher) of the next cruise you're trying to get comped and from reading other posts it sounds like the payout is pretty low on their slots. That could make sense if you enjoy playing slot machines, already planned on gambling anyway, and might as well get something back for it, but wouldn't necessarily represent a good value proposition VS just paying for the next cruise for a non-gambler.

Checking out video poker I saw that the pay tables (looked to be 6/5 for JoB) weren't really all that exciting (looked to be ~95% payout with optimal play) and in terms of "points" the rate at which you earn points was (as one would expect) lower than the other slots. Of course, if "points" aren't the deciding factor in comped cruises and CAS theoretical payout is lower than optimal payout I could see there being some potential here, although with a higher variance VS table games.

Checking out blackjack I saw that most of the tables only payed 6:5 on player's blackjack, which makes the game much less favorable, but their $15 minimum tables payed the proper 3:2 on blackjacks. With that said, they were 6-deck games with an automatic shuffling machine, which is smart on their part since it would effectively prevent card counting and other forms of advantage play. Sadly, I can't find any discussion in regards to how blackjack play is valued in terms of comping cruises and what might be used as theoretical loss. Also, many casinos don't really care about your play if you're playing the table minimum so not sure if there's a certain average bet one needs to maintain for play to even be counted. I did notice that when I'd vary my bet between hands they were pretty quick to tap some buttons on their computer, which makes me think they're putting effort into tracking bet size. It's all really a pretty smart setup since if they use the information available to them, the shuffler is tracking the number of hands played while you're at the table, the computer has a pretty good feel for what you're betting, and by tying it to your room card they can get a pretty good idea of cash in and whether you're winning or losing. I could see them tracking actual win/loss.

When I was sitting at the blackjack table I struck up a conversation with a couple different people that seemed to have been sitting there for a while. One told me that she typically played 5-hours a day of blackjack, but only on sea days and that was enough to get her cruises comped and still get to enjoy all the ports. This kind of surprised me since we were on a 7-day cruise with only two sea days. 10-hours of cumulative blackjack isn't "nothing," but just found it odd that it would vary based on the number of sea days on a cruise. Curious if anybody here might have any useful data points or insight that might help me figure out if it's worth my time to start playing some more serious blackjack on my next cruise (purely from an EV perspective) or if that's a poor value proposition for me. Is my time better spend enjoying the ship's other amenities and only spending an hour or two in the casino with very low-stakes gambling, as I'd normally be inclined to do from a cost-minimization perspective?

I think you need to start with which specific cruise line you are interested in as comps vary wildly between different lines....

I think you need to start with which specific cruise line you are interested in as comps vary wildly between different lines....

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Was looking at NCL's CAS, but open to other options as well.

 

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CAS has been changing the rules lately, and not in a good way. The worst change is to take into account your winnings. As a result if you have a winning cruise, no matter the theoretical lose, no comped next cruise. Never heard of such of thing. Every other casino I've been in makes more offers if you to win, to get their money back.

CAS has been changing the rules lately, and not in a good way. The worst change is to take into account your winnings. As a result if you have a winning cruise, no matter the theoretical lose, no comped next cruise. Never heard of such of thing. Every other casino I've been in makes more offers if you to win, to get their money back.

How the heck would they determine actual loss for a table game?

I mean sure they can estimate it based on cash in VS what you color up for when you leave the table, but that's far from foolproof if a player wants to "lose," I would think.

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Seriously? For table games too?

How the heck would they determine actual loss for a table game?

I mean sure they can estimate it based on cash in VS what you color up for when you leave the table, but that's far from foolproof if a player wants to "lose," I would think.

 

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That's as big a mystery to me as how they calculate points on table play. No one can/will tell you. Caesars has a deal now going that you get 200 extra tier credits for 25 points playing slots or table games at each of their casino's, through March 31st. So, if you go to Vegas, you can get 400 extra tier credits( 200 for slots and 200 table play) at 9 casino's. We've asked several hosts, and not one of them can you what you need to play at a table to get 25 points on your account.

From what I've read NCL has generally allowed either actual or theoretical loss to determine comps with better comps/rooms being awarded for losing Vs winning cruises. This seemed like a strange practice to me, but to go all the way and only consider actual loss would be just plain silly.

It's just begging for someone to devise a long shot/high variance betting strategy where you lose on 4/5 cruises and win big on 1/5 cruises since they wouldn't penalize you or award negative comps for the winning cruise.

Makes me think back to an online casino promo years ago where they would give you back a substantial percentage of your losses, up to a certain amount. People would game that system with things like betting on 1-12 on roulette. 1/3rd of the time you'd triple your money and the rest of the time you'd only lose 75% of your bet.

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.... Curious if anybody here might have any useful data points or insight that might help me figure out if it's worth my time to start playing some more serious blackjack on my next cruise (purely from an EV perspective) or if that's a poor value proposition for me. Is my time better spend enjoying the ship's other amenities and only spending an hour or two in the casino with very low-stakes gambling, as I'd normally be inclined to do from a cost-minimization perspective?

We are long time NCL CAS cruisers, and while I can't give you specific data points or the math to back them up, I can offer some observations: First of all, I'm a VP and slots player (my DW is a slots player only) and you are correct that the pay tables on VP on board any ship are atrocious. Therefore, I primarly pay VP as entertainment alone. Also, the normal .5 points earning for same dollar in makes VP on ships an awful proposition, since you're really playing just to maximize your points earning.

Slots can be a better proposition, but obviously they still do not return the percentages you can find in a land casino.

Without much math, but simply looking at $ spent gambling, its pretty obvious that playing for comp cruises is overall not a winning proposition. You could simply pay for the cruises outright, and spend less money.

I think you've hit on the real issue in the last part of your post, which I've quoted. The answer to that question depends totally on you, and has little to do with the returns you might play for. It's just a matter of what you enjoy doing when you cruise. For us, the gambling is part of our entertainment. We'd gamble anyway, so we do it with an eye towards maximizing our points accumulation. The resulting comp on the next cruise only serves to move entertainment dollars spent from the cost of the cabin to another pocket, the cost of gambling on the ship. It works for us, but perhaps not for others.

Once after a sailing making pearl level, and winning, we were told no comped cruise (after 23 CAS comped cruises) because " you won enough to pay for your own cruise ". So we took a pic of our land based cruise certificate and sent it to URCOMPED, we received free cruise on MSC. We have sailed twice on MSC once on Divina in Sept during hurricane Irma and once on the Seaside in Jan both thru URCOMPED. Free =Free. No port charges or taxes or administration fees like NCL charges. Only $200 deposit which turns into onboard credit. We will sail NCL only with land based certificates and play minimal on the ship, giving our land based more play

Safe sailing

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Great data points. Thanks for sharing!

I wonder how long ago CAS moved from theo to actual losses for comps. What a bizarre decision.

Also seems like MSC is getting more attention on here lately. I'm going to have to read up on them a bit...

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did not include cruise line

I've tried to read through the threads on this subforum for data points on what level of play might lead to getting your next cruise comped with CAS, but not finding very much in terms of specific info on this forum. It sounds like it's based on theoretical or actual losses (similar to land-casino comps) and obviously there's the standard cashback system (where X points earns you Y in free play), but that's not really the part I'm interested in.

 

I could be completely wrong about this, but my assumption is that with standard slots they'd have it worked out where one's theoretical loss would have to be on the order of the cost (or higher) of the next cruise you're trying to get comped and from reading other posts it sounds like the payout is pretty low on their slots. That could make sense if you enjoy playing slot machines, already planned on gambling anyway, and might as well get something back for it, but wouldn't necessarily represent a good value proposition VS just paying for the next cruise for a non-gambler.

 

 

 

Checking out video poker I saw that the pay tables (looked to be 6/5 for JoB) weren't really all that exciting (looked to be ~95% payout with optimal play) and in terms of "points" the rate at which you earn points was (as one would expect) lower than the other slots. Of course, if "points" aren't the deciding factor in comped cruises and CAS theoretical payout is lower than optimal payout I could see there being some potential here, although with a higher variance VS table games.

 

Checking out blackjack I saw that most of the tables only payed 6:5 on player's blackjack, which makes the game much less favorable, but their $15 minimum tables payed the proper 3:2 on blackjacks. With that said, they were 6-deck games with an automatic shuffling machine, which is smart on their part since it would effectively prevent card counting and other forms of advantage play. Sadly, I can't find any discussion in regards to how blackjack play is valued in terms of comping cruises and what might be used as theoretical loss. Also, many casinos don't really care about your play if you're playing the table minimum so not sure if there's a certain average bet one needs to maintain for play to even be counted. I did notice that when I'd vary my bet between hands they were pretty quick to tap some buttons on their computer, which makes me think they're putting effort into tracking bet size. It's all really a pretty smart setup since if they use the information available to them, the shuffler is tracking the number of hands played while you're at the table, the computer has a pretty good feel for what you're betting, and by tying it to your room card they can get a pretty good idea of cash in and whether you're winning or losing. I could see them tracking actual win/loss.

 

When I was sitting at the blackjack table I struck up a conversation with a couple different people that seemed to have been sitting there for a while. One told me that she typically played 5-hours a day of blackjack, but only on sea days and that was enough to get her cruises comped and still get to enjoy all the ports. This kind of surprised me since we were on a 7-day cruise with only two sea days. 10-hours of cumulative blackjack isn't "nothing," but just found it odd that it would vary based on the number of sea days on a cruise. Curious if anybody here might have any useful data points or insight that might help me figure out if it's worth my time to start playing some more serious blackjack on my next cruise (purely from an EV perspective) or if that's a poor value proposition for me. Is my time better spend enjoying the ship's other amenities and only spending an hour or two in the casino with very low-stakes gambling, as I'd normally be inclined to do from a cost-minimization perspective?

i just came back from a 9 day cruise- played AT LEAST 5 hours a day and on the last night found out i only had 1600 points!!!!! (and 200 of them was from slots)how is that possible when i have spent far less time and far less money on prior cruises and always got over 2400 points! The casino host was kind and gave me a free cruise for two in an inside cabin (or $500) value off another non-listed cruise just out of kindness because i truly did not make enough points. I really cannot tell you how this works anymore as i was flabbergasted at my low points!

did not include cruise line

 

 

i just came back from a 9 day cruise- played AT LEAST 5 hours a day and on the last night found out i only had 1600 points!!!!! (and 200 of them was from slots)how is that possible when i have spent far less time and far less money on prior cruises and always got over 2400 points! The casino host was kind and gave me a free cruise for two in an inside cabin (or $500) value off another non-listed cruise just out of kindness because i truly did not make enough points. I really cannot tell you how this works anymore as i was flabbergasted at my low points!

But assuming you're referring to Norwegian, that's yet another data point that they're tightening things up. The other threads I read in this subforum mostly sung the praises of NCL and how generous their comps were so it's sounding like they must have recently flipped a switch and are now overcorrecting a little too hard with other lines like MSC eager to swoop in and take over.

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did not include cruise line

 

 

i just came back from a 9 day cruise- played AT LEAST 5 hours a day and on the last night found out i only had 1600 points!!!!! (and 200 of them was from slots)how is that possible when i have spent far less time and far less money on prior cruises and always got over 2400 points! The casino host was kind and gave me a free cruise for two in an inside cabin (or $500) value off another non-listed cruise just out of kindness because i truly did not make enough points. I really cannot tell you how this works anymore as i was flabbergasted at my low points!

Sounds as if your points were from a mix of tables and slots? If so, a couple of things: Your points on table games are based on the pit boss observing your play. He/She could have been lazy, made a mistake, not been observant...many things. Also, if you're only betting minimums, the your rating by the pit boss will be lower.

On slots, same thing: your points earned are mathematically connected to the amount you wager. Play only the minimums? Then you receive fewer points.

Did you check on the formula used by the cruise casino for reward points?

Curious as to what cruise line this was? I've never heard of the casino staff giving out cruise certificates. That's usually done by the shore based staff of the casino.