So...Lightroom

Everything old is new again!

I got the ping today that all of my Adobe stuff needed to update. Goodbye to Lightroom "CC" and hello to Lightroom "Classic" (Lightroom "C"?).

I guess it isn't a bait an switch since my local stuff all works about the same except for an update/conversion to my catalog. There are some neat new tools for the graduated and radial filter masks and while I haven't taken the time to update embedded previews, the overall program seems snappier.

The plans have changed. If you are on the Photographer's plan, you still have Photoshop, Lightroom Classic plus you get access to the new web version of Lightroom and 20 GB of storage for mobile editing.

Take the time to read the intro and look over the payment options. There are more shades of grey in your plan choices now and depending on your needs, you may be able to save some money or bump up to web only with a TB of storage for a few bucks more.

Now, if they would only let you load and edit images you have stored on OneDrive or a personal domain, that would be a huge thing for travelers!

Reading:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/9793353649/adobe-launches-all-new-cloud-based-lightroom-cc-rebrands-old-application-lightroom-classic

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/10/18/confused-about-lightroom-cc-and-lightroom-classic-cc

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/10/18/lightroom-classic-cc-adobe-improves-and-rebrands-classic-lightroom

Dave

Still using Paintshop Pro ... I know, one in every crowd.

Still can't bring myself to pay a company monthly for life to use an editing suite. I really dislike that this is the direction the world is going - but obviously I'm in the minority as nearly everything today is some kind of subscription, from music to movies to computer programs to security. I miss the days when I paid money and received a physical thing I owned and could do what I wanted with!

I still use PSP as well - been plenty happy with it, especially that I bought it and own it, and the price. I use CaptureOne for RAW, which I really like the price of since it came free for the Sony version. With those two, I've got all the editing capability I need for about $80 paid 3 years ago...currently averaging to about $2 a month - and getting cheaper each month that goes by where I don't pay a monthly fee! :)

Don't you pay a companies monthly for water, gas, electricity, access to the internet, television programming and a a network to connect your cellphone to? :)

Subscription-only software is becoming the norm. It provides the company with a more consistent cash flow and in turn, they provide the user with timely upgrades and security updates. I used to pony up the bucks for MS Office every four or five years when enough new bells and whistles were added to make it worth it. The $10/mo subscription now keeps me updated constantly and gives me a terabyte of online storage to boot. Sort of a wash, dollar-wise. The Adobe Photographer's plan also seems pretty fair to me since the original cost of LR was $150 and Photoshop was over $500, which had me using Picasa and Elements since I couldn't bring myself to cough up the price of admission in a lump plus pay for upgrades every few years. Now, for the cost of a bagel and latté every other week (or one nice 22 oz. craft beer per month), I use constantly updated, state-of-the-art editors with access to the mobile versions thrown in. This seems pretty reasonable, IMHO.

FWIW, I was also a PSP user until Corel decided that the version I was using that wouldn't run on my new computer/Windows combination would no longer be supported with updates and here's a link to where you can buy a version that should work. Everything has upsides and downsides.

Times, they are a-changin'!

Dave

Still can't bring myself to pay a company monthly for life to use an editing suite. I really dislike that this is the direction the world is going - but obviously I'm in the minority as nearly everything today is some kind of subscription, from music to movies to computer programs to security. I miss the days when I paid money and received a physical thing I owned and could do what I wanted with!

I believe LR is still available as a stand-alone purchase for about $150. It may not be the very latest version, but very serviceable nonetheless. I believe the full version of Photoshop (which I rarely use - LR is almost always all I need) is now available only on a subscription basis.

Yes, you can buy the current version of LR as standalone -- But it is the last standalone version. It will no longer be updated, will no longer get updates for new cameras.

For mainstream users, there are now a few choices:

1 -- $9.99 per month, same as before, for Lightroom "classic" and Photoshop CC, and 20gb of cloud storage. You also get the Lightroom CC (cloud version) but it's use is somewhat limited with only 20 gb of storage.

2 -- $9.99 per month for Lightroom CC (cloud based) and 1 tb of storage. For jpeg shooters, this is more than enough storage for all time. For RAW shooters.... this may not be enough. It would probably be enough for me for 6-12 months of shooting if I used it exclusively. No photoshop and no lightroom classic. (quick impressions of Lightroom CC below)

3-- $19.99 per month (for upgraders, get 1 year at $14.99 per month) for Photoshop CC, Lightroom Classic, Lightroom CC + 1 TB of storage. So you're basically paying an extra $120 per year to get a TB of storage. A bit overpriced IMO... but I did it for now, anyway.

So my quickie impressions of the updates:

Photoshop -- I didn't even notice anything different, except I can access the could photos directly from the start screen.

Lightroom Classic -- Great new masking features. But when initially used, I had a major bug -- I couldn't actually view my older photos through the library module. I could click on a photo.. but it would keep displaying the first image in the folder. I couldn't actually select other photos unless I was in the develop module.

Lightroom CC -- Only tried it for a minute. It has most of the basic features of lighroom, it did feel quick and responsive. Probably serves most people very well. But it was definitely lacking some things you have in the classic version. It doesn't have the new masking features. I couldn't find a way to access the history pane (but I assume it's there somewhere). Overall, the cloud version is probably great for casual photographers.

Don't you pay a companies monthly for water, gas, electricity, access to the internet, television programming and a a network to connect your cellphone to? :)

Exactly - that's what's chapping at me...I've got enough things I have to pay monthly for - I don't want to add more! As it is, I've debated and turned down some of those optional monthly fees - no Netflix, no premium cable stations, no internet data/text plan. I suppose if I was spending for Lightroom/Photoshop/etc for the newest version every year or two at $200+ a pop, then it would be easy enough to justify the $10 mo charge instead - but I bought PSP6, I believe, in about 1999 or so...for around $100...and used that version all the way until 2012 when I took an upgrade offer to go to PSP Pro X4 for $69...spread that cost over the 6 years now I've been using it, and you can see where I'd consider it a bargain!

Subscription-only software is becoming the norm. It provides the company with a more consistent cash flow and in turn, they provide the user with timely upgrades and security updates.

No question the profitability is the reason. Everything is becoming pay-as-you-go, which works out well for some heavy users, but not so well for light users - for example, the Netflix model doesn't work well for me compared to the old Blockbuster DVD rental days - because I might watch 1 movie a month - or only one every 2 or 3 months...and other times maybe 5 - it doesn't always pay off for me to always be paying $12-14 a month when some months will go by where I watch nothing. Add in all the other streaming and premium services with their own monthly fees - and it's easy to exceed $100 a month in subscriptions...just not worth it for me. While I do go with the cable/satellite model still, I mostly do that because my neighborhood builds it into the dues/HOA.

Now, for the cost of a bagel and latté every other week (or one nice 22 oz. craft beer per month), I use constantly updated, state-of-the-art editors with access to the mobile versions thrown in. This seems pretty reasonable, IMHO.

For certain, that model works very nicely for someone who likes to upgrade their programs and tech regularly. I admit not being a big computer-head, I minimize the time I spend in front of a computer monitor as much as possible, as it's probably the thing I derive the least enjoyment out of in life...so 4-8 year old tech in some areas works just fine for me. Heck, I still have an iPhone 4s. ;)

Now, if I could work out a subscription model for new cameras and lenses - say, $10 a month and I get the newest, latest top of the line Sony body and access to any lens I want...well, I'd jump right on that modern tech train! :)

Now, if I could work out a subscription model for new cameras and lenses - say, $10 a month and I get the newest, latest top of the line Sony body and access to any lens I want...well, I'd jump right on that modern tech train! :)

I was getting around to that...maybe a lease program. Instead of miles, they could count shutter actuations. 24 month turn-in for the latest model. Discount lens rental program or free rentals with a loyalty points system.

Ah dreams...

Dave

When the Lightroom/Photoshop stuff gives me a headache I just go out to the darkroom...

Tom

I do like the Adobe photographer's plan a lot. The updates to Lightroom make it very worthwhile for me. The latest update to Classic makes it so much faster. That alone is worth paying for. When the new CC version gets more editing features, I will look at it; but for now, I can't see paying $10 a month for more storage. I also wish it would work with One Drive in the cloud; so for now, One Drive is just a backup for all my photos on my HD.

With us being on cruises, I could use the new CC for processing; but there is no way I would be able to move anything into the cloud until I got home anyway, so there isn't much benefit there. Even with unlimited ship wifi, it would take forever to upload photos.

DPReview article may answer a few questions about the furure of Lightroom and a desktop software package.

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/5816515871/interview-adobe-will-absolutely-continue-investing-in-lightroom-classic

Dave

DPReview article may answer a few questions about the furure of Lightroom and a desktop software package.

 

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/5816515871/interview-adobe-will-absolutely-continue-investing-in-lightroom-classic

 

Dave

I have been reading DP review once I heard about this. The "sky is falling" mentality over there is comical. I remember when Adobe first went to the CC plan there were a few folks over there who actually said that it would kill adobe and they would be out of business in 6 months. :rolleyes:. With the endless adobe whining and bashing over there it is hard to take most the posts serious.

I have been reading DP review once I heard about this. The "sky is falling" mentality over there is comical. I remember when Adobe first went to the CC plan there were a few folks over there who actually said that it would kill adobe and they would be out of business in 6 months. :rolleyes:. With the endless adobe whining and bashing over there it is hard to take most the posts serious.

I quit the DPR forums years ago (except for a few toe-dips to see if the climate has changed) when the imminent demise of Sony was predicted and then demanded for both the SLT mirror cameras and then mirrorless. I usually cut the anchor rope when the fervor starts relying on belief and dismisses opposing opinions as heresy. Come to think of it, I don't have very many anchor ropes left these days... :)

Dave

I quit the DPR forums years ago (except for a few toe-dips to see if the climate has changed) when the imminent demise of Sony was predicted and then demanded for both the SLT mirror cameras and then mirrorless. I usually cut the anchor rope when the fervor starts relying on belief and dismisses opposing opinions as heresy. Come to think of it, I don't have very many anchor ropes left these days... :)

 

Dave

About the only parts I read these days (I never actually signed up as a member. because for some reason "post count" equals your amount of knowledge) are the astrophotography section (there are some really good astro shooters over there) and the travel and landscape section (for ideas of places and things to shoot). :cool:

I'm a PaintShop Pro user too. I usually update every other year or so, usually when a computer crashes and I buy a new one. It's worth it to me to have one I buy because the program is loaded to at least 3 different computers. And yes, I too hate subscriptions.

Vic

I really only use Lightroom after a major trip. Once or twice a year. Paying monthly is so out of the question. Have LR6, but the updates have stopped. We'll see how long we last on it, but it looks like we'll have to go with another company eventually.

I’ve never learned Lightroom. I started using Photoshop long ago and am reasonably comfortable with it. Am I missing anything by not using Lightroom?

Sometimes I really miss the days of updating when I had to. Buying Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop and having that version last a couple years. I started with Illustrator 1.1 in 1985 LOL

I’ve never learned Lightroom. I started using Photoshop long ago and am reasonably comfortable with it. Am I missing anything by not using Lightroom?

Lightroom's non-destructive corrective editing have replaced 98% of my Photoshop usage when processing new files. If I end up needing Photoshop to remove large objects or prepare an image for printing, a right-click takes you to it with a choice of editing the original file (a sin :) ), edit a copy or edit a copy with any Lightroom adjustments you have already made.

The organizational features are worth the price of admission on their own. I started using Lightroom when Picasa was dropped by Google and have never regretted it. The learning curve isn't all that steep and there are probably a half-million instructional videos out there if you get stuck. I consider the 32¢ a day (37¢ worst case in February) for the Photographer's package a good value for Lightroom alone and view Photoshop as a free bonus.

My 2¢

Dave

I’ve never learned Lightroom. I started using Photoshop long ago and am reasonably comfortable with it. Am I missing anything by not using Lightroom?

I don't think so.

There are workarounds to some of the things. It depends on how much you edit and how many pictures you go through.

We only use the program about twice a year, so one big advantage of Lightroom is useless to us (the categorizing and workflow).

I like how Lightroom is non-destructive. It doesn't change the original file. There's no "save" button. If you make any changes, if you want to keep them, you have to export them and basically create a new file with the changes made to it. But honestly, you can just create a duplicate file first for Photoshop and we rarely ever look at the original again.

We think maybe one day we'll get Photoshop too for the more advanced editing. But, it takes a lot of time which we really don't have so we never get around to it. Lightroom can already remove some objects and does the basics, which is all we need (exposure, color, etc).

Here's a good article: http://blog.creativelive.com/use-photoshop-lightroom/

I couldn't be happier with Lightroom. I take thousands of photos when on a cruise. Processing and organizing them is so much faster and easier. $10 per month for Lightroom and Photoshop is a no-brainer for me. Adobe is regularly updating the software and making it even better.

I had used Photoshop and Bridge in the past and did a good job; but once I learned how to use Lightroom, I much preferred it. The free videos from Anthony Morganti's website have made such a difference in understanding how to use LR and how to improve my processing skills.

If I didn't take many photos, I can understand not wanting to pay for LR; but if you take lots, it is a great product to have.

I guess all of the ethically pure folk can't understand why the software world is moving to subscription models rather than a box that you own forever.

Thing is, it's childishly easy to copy digital goods. No matter what security workaround, some clever cookie in China or Russia or Texas will crack it, put up their crack on Pirate Bay and that's more sales lost.

Subscription models get around this. You have to have an account or your stuff stops working.

I'm using Lightroom. They update the thing every few weeks, and it's a dam' good program for organisation and editing. Just being able to apply presets is a huge bonus. A photo comes out looking flat, I just hit the appropriate button and viola! it pops.

Or I can massage a shot by hand. Opening out the dynamic range is a quick and easy fix where I keep control.

I'm happy to pay ten bucks a month. Works out to be much the same price as buying a fresh copy every couple of years

Thing is, it's childishly easy to copy digital goods. No matter what security workaround, some clever cookie in China or Russia or Texas will crack it, put up their crack on Pirate Bay and that's more sales lost.

 

I remember reading an article about 10 years ago where Microsoft estimated that at one time almost 90% of the copies of Office in use were pirated. A bit less but nearly the same with earlier versions of Photoshop. The cost of digital theft was baked into the selling price and a copy of Office or Photoshop was $400-$500.

Subscription-based solutions are providing users with constantly updated products at a price considerably less than a typical three-year purchase cycle for a newer version. Having been a part of the tech world for 30+ years now and having seen the rampant, unabashed piracy of software by individuals and even large companies, I find it hard to complain about the current licensing trend. I always felt fortunate to work for companies that provided me with software that I couldn't otherwise afford and now I'll say again that I'm happy to pay a small fee for access to world class software tools thanks to subscriptions.

Dave

Hmm, that's a good point.

However, everyone has different amount of usage. The one price fits all for subscription models doesn't work for those who don't use the software often. Just as the one price fits all for a permanent use license probably prices things too low for those who use the software a lot.

I just don't use Lightroom often enough to justify $10/mo for it. I use it, maybe 2-3 times a year? Since I've had LR 6, I don't think I've used it more than 6 times.

Once I switch cameras (if I do so) and the new one isn't supported by LR6, I'm switching over to Skylum or something.

Hmm, that's a good point.

 

However, everyone has different amount of usage. The one price fits all for subscription models doesn't work for those who don't use the software often. Just as the one price fits all for a permanent use license probably prices things too low for those who use the software a lot.

 

I just don't use Lightroom often enough to justify $10/mo for it. I use it, maybe 2-3 times a year? Since I've had LR 6, I don't think I've used it more than 6 times.

 

Once I switch cameras (if I do so) and the new one isn't supported by LR6, I'm switching over to Skylum or something.

I can't disagree with the price per use argument. I use Lightroom often and my price per use is reasonable in my view. In your situation, I would probably do the same.

I currently own Skylum software and am waiting for the digital asset management portion to be released to finish my evaluation here on the forums. I also bought the Aurora HDR module too. It looks pretty good and the interface is improving with each update.

Dave