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Pier Runners


thunter1224
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We waited almost an hour at St Thomas for passengers. The last two were young women who were dropped off by a friend, in their beach gear and saundered towards the ship. Crew went to meet them but they never bothered to move their feet faster. Their faces changed from "aren't we cool" to shock once they got close enough to hear the booing. I do think port privileges should be removed in these situations. A couple was still left behind but the crew pulled up the gangway after the two chickies got onboard.

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Perhaps not an error, but then a deliberate exaggeration to make your point that the poster was full of horse "feathers" or something worse. :rolleyes:

 

To take "can" and turn it into "the fact", and "tens of thousands" into "100,000", and the no mention of a time frame into "20 minutes", is either a complete error or a deliberate attempt to disavow what the poster was saying. Take your pick. Either way, you are wrong.

 

Besides, to challenge a maritime professional with years of experience, with your lack of first hand knowledge of how things actually work behind the scenes, is a fools errand. Stick to facts based on an expert's experience, not exaggerations to support your opinions.

I am sorry for translating tens of thousands into $100,000 also not using"can" rather than"the fact" I was engaging in what was for me, was loose blather. I will be more careful to what I say in the future. Inflection and expression go a long way in communication. I was in no way trying to make a point by the comment however.

I have enjoyed Heidi13's blogs ever since I have found them and in no way do I compare my limited knowledge to theirs.

I apologize if I indicated otherwise.

Edited by JMorris271
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I was indeed referring to the the comment # 20.

I did not take that comment as gospel but rather with as a grain of salt. Sorry it rubbed you the wrong way.

I try to reply to questions as best as I see it . I will comment as I choose and should I I make an error,I made an error.

I said once again, that a well meaning poster on post # 20 made that post. If it doesn't suit you,too bad.

Lighten up Francis. Sorry my response to you tipped you over. :rolleyes: Not my intention. But you did say,"$1000,00 where post #20 said tens of thousands. That's why when I did a search there was no evidence to verify your post. Simple question. That's all. No biggie!

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On a related topic; I was on the Freedom of the Seas last week. At one port, the "All aboard" time was 4:30pm. Around 4:45pm, the last guest arrived at the gangway. She said she thought we had until 5 pm. It got me wondering where she might have gotten that idea. The Cruise Compass and the signs at the gangway all listed 4:30 as the all aboard time, with no mention of a 5pm departure.

 

 

Then I looked at the Shore Excursion booklet. In a table, it listed our times in port. It showed a time from 8am till 5pm, with no mention of an earlier deadline. I guess she read that first; had the 5pm time stuck in her head, and did not comprehend all the other papers and announcements saying 4:30.

 

 

Aloha,

 

 

John

My wife will take the cruise lines daily paper in her pocket book with us for just in case. We have had on more than one occasion a stranger come up to us, ask what ship we are on and what time do we have to be back onboard. It is real easy to get caught up in all the fun and excitement but still it's everyone's responsibility to make sure they know exactly when all aboard is.

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If you are referring to post # 20, this well meaning poster's notion is not something I heard, it is actually FACTS. With almost 30 years in command of passenger carrying vessels and managing ship's budgets, I probably know more about the subject than most.

 

With everything else being equal (tides, wind, loading, etc), a ship uses more fuel to complete any given voyage faster. The engines may run for less time, but they still use more fuel. Having completed way too many voyage reports, this is fact and not a notion.

 

I know that the relationship between fuel usage and ship speed is complicated. However, ignoring all other factors, it is a linear, 2nd order, or 3d order relationship. In other words, approximately how much of a hit does the ship take in fuel usage when they increase speed from say 15 knots to 20 knots?

 

DON

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I know that the relationship between fuel usage and ship speed is complicated. However, ignoring all other factors, it is a linear, 2nd order, or 3d order relationship. In other words, approximately how much of a hit does the ship take in fuel usage when they increase speed from say 15 knots to 20 knots?

 

DON

 

Don - as you noted it is complicated and has many variables depending on engine plant, especially where gas turbines are installed.

 

Probably best to provide you some examples.

 

My last ship had 4 engines, with CP blades and power take-offs for the hotel services/thrusters, etc. We ran all 4 engines at sea, which ran at constant speed, with speed adjustments made on the blades. A 1/2 knot increase in speed would be 10 - 15% extra fuel. For many years we had fuel monitors installed in the Bridge and it was a real eye opener observing the fuel rate when adjusting the throttle, to attain the desired speed.

 

Back in my cruise ship days, the 3 non-steam ships all had 4 engines and CP blades. We normally set off at full speed, then dropped engines as the speed to go reduced. From memory, I recall our top speed being a shade under 20 kts. Running on 3 engines we made about 18.5 kts, so an extra 1 to 1.5 kts required 25% extra fuel. On 2 engines we made about 16 kts, so an extra 3.5 to 4 kts required 50% extra fuel.

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I know that the relationship between fuel usage and ship speed is complicated. However, ignoring all other factors, it is a linear, 2nd order, or 3d order relationship. In other words, approximately how much of a hit does the ship take in fuel usage when they increase speed from say 15 knots to 20 knots?

 

DON

 

There are theoretical calculations of power to speed based on the hull design, etc, and then dealing with fuel consumption versus horsepower, but most of our data comes from the test bed data for the engine's fuel consumption and empirical data of power/speed gathered during sea trials. Then there are further factors like weather, draft, hull roughness and propeller roughness, and even fore/aft trim of the vessel that affect fuel consumption, but power to ship speed is a 2nd order relationship, and fuel consumption to power is also a 2nd order relationship, so I think (not really a mathematician) fuel consumption to speed is a 3rd order.

 

Now, to your actual question, this would depend on the ship's top speed in relation to the two speeds you are talking about (15 and 20 knots). If you assume that 20 knots is approximately top speed (hull speed), then a 33% increase from 15 to 20 knots would require about a 45% increase in fuel. Now, the difference in fuel consumption between 15 to 16 knots is a lot less than the difference between 19 and 20 knots. The fuel consumption for the last few knots get really expensive. It also depends on whether or not you are trying to drive the ship above the "hull speed" or the highest speed the hull will move through the water for the least power. Once you exceed the hull speed, it requires enormous amounts of power. Look at a comparison between Oasis of the Seas and the SS United States. Oasis has a displacement of 100,000 tons, and uses 81,000 hp to reach 22 knots. The US had a displacement of 45,000 tons (half of Oasis), and required 240,000 hp to reach 35 knots. So, a ship that weighs half as much needs 3 times the power to get a 38% increase in speed.

 

I see Capt. Heidi has responded while I've been typing with more anecdotal evidence that is about what mine is.

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I keep being told about all these passports being lost or stolen, but have yet to have ONE person on CC that relates to this occurring. Also, I travel a lot internationally. To many places no sane person would go if they had a choice. Never had an issue. None of my colleagues have had an issue. No one in my organization has had an issue that I have heard of.

I was on Norwegian Sun last year when one man came back aboard without his passport. It had been stolen from the buttoned leg pocket of his cargo pants. He could stay on the ship until passports were required for the next country. His wife updated us the morning of disembarkation that he was currently in Mexico City with an appointment at the USA Embassy/Consulate.

 

Yes, stolen passports DO still happen.

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Again, was money and credit cards in the same pocket? And were they stolen?

 

My experience is that they want the cash and credit cards, also cameras are a big target. If they get the passport, they may try to sell it, or they may toss it in the nearest trash bin.

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Again, was money and credit cards in the same pocket? And were they stolen?

 

My experience is that they want the cash and credit cards, also cameras are a big target. If they get the passport, they may try to sell it, or they may toss it in the nearest trash bin.

 

In either case it is lost to the passenger and no longer available. It's my understanding that most passports are stolen because they are kept with other valuables that are more of a target, but stolen is stolen.

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There are theoretical calculations of power to speed based on the hull design, etc, and then dealing with fuel consumption versus horsepower, but most of our data comes from the test bed data for the engine's fuel consumption and empirical data of power/speed gathered during sea trials. Then there are further factors like weather, draft, hull roughness and propeller roughness, and even fore/aft trim of the vessel that affect fuel consumption, but power to ship speed is a 2nd order relationship, and fuel consumption to power is also a 2nd order relationship, so I think (not really a mathematician) fuel consumption to speed is a 3rd order.

 

Now, to your actual question, this would depend on the ship's top speed in relation to the two speeds you are talking about (15 and 20 knots). If you assume that 20 knots is approximately top speed (hull speed), then a 33% increase from 15 to 20 knots would require about a 45% increase in fuel. Now, the difference in fuel consumption between 15 to 16 knots is a lot less than the difference between 19 and 20 knots. The fuel consumption for the last few knots get really expensive. It also depends on whether or not you are trying to drive the ship above the "hull speed" or the highest speed the hull will move through the water for the least power. Once you exceed the hull speed, it requires enormous amounts of power. Look at a comparison between Oasis of the Seas and the SS United States. Oasis has a displacement of 100,000 tons, and uses 81,000 hp to reach 22 knots. The US had a displacement of 45,000 tons (half of Oasis), and required 240,000 hp to reach 35 knots. So, a ship that weighs half as much needs 3 times the power to get a 38% increase in speed.

 

I see Capt. Heidi has responded while I've been typing with more anecdotal evidence that is about what mine is.

 

Thanks to both you and Capt. Heidi. Just the information I was interested in from 2 people who obviously know what they are talking about.

 

DON

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In either case it is lost to the passenger and no longer available. It's my understanding that most passports are stolen because they are kept with other valuables that are more of a target, but stolen is stolen.

 

Agreed, but many people here on CC seem to think that passports are targeted.

 

And I don't carry my passport with my wallet. :D

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Agreed, but many people here on CC seem to think that passports are targeted.

 

And I don't carry my passport with my wallet. :D

 

People are going to think what they are going to think. For many years it has been written in numerous travel articles that passports are a target and those articles are still being written AFAIK, so it really isn't surprising that people do think that. If I do carry my passport it is separate from all my other valuables.

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Its not only the extra fuel they use to catch up .. But the port fees , and the dock workers that have to get overtime to hang out until the ship has left the docks..

 

 

 

I know that the relationship between fuel usage and ship speed is complicated. However, ignoring all other factors, it is a linear, 2nd order, or 3d order relationship. In other words, approximately how much of a hit does the ship take in fuel usage when they increase speed from say 15 knots to 20 knots?

 

DON

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Its not only the extra fuel they use to catch up .. But the port fees , and the dock workers that have to get overtime to hang out until the ship has left the docks..

 

Pilotage may be a little higher for the longer time, though in most ports that isn't so, the port fees are not per hour like a parking meter, they are typically for a 12 or 24 hour period, in many cases, the ship doesn't put lines back out it just presses against the dock with the thrusters, and most of these ports the concept of overtime doesn't apply to most workers.

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/20/2018 at 3:22 PM, SRF said:

 

I keep being told about all these passports being lost or stolen, but have yet to have ONE person on CC that relates to this occurring. Also, I travel a lot internationally. To many places no sane person would go if they had a choice. Never had an issue. None of my colleagues have had an issue. No one in my organization has had an issue that I have heard of.

 

Some were listed already in this thread. Here are some additional ones. I've been around these forums for more than 10 years and I don't read every forum but I certainly read about at least 4-5 passport thefts per year, at a minimum. And of course CC only represents a small proportion of cruisers...

 

 

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On 9/19/2018 at 11:16 AM, mef_57 said:

Not having much luck finding it, but last year I read a first hand report on a man missing the ship in Nassau. Got separated from family in Paradise Island and then missed the ship while trying to find family (teen age son who was with uncle). Not cell charger, can't remember if he had a passport. Since he wasn't on board, they cancelled his ship card. Family onboard in a panic. Eventually caught up with the ship, then the hassle of being added back to the passenger manifest. It was a mess for all the family and not sure that he is speaking to his BIL yet. It was informative of what you should take on shore however - just in case. At the least, passport,cell phone, charger, credit card, some cash, and clothing that won't embarrass you if you need to make several flights to catch up with the ship. The guy was very lucky to have a sympathetic port manager who went out of his way to help him out even when off duty.

That port agent got him and hotel room and directions to the consulate for an emergency passport. His attitude helped him a lot. 

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On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 3:54 PM, alexspepa said:

this thread has lost it's point, based on the title:

 

Pier Runners are the best free entertainment on board.

grab a drink, lurk on the shore side and boo or cheer.

Internet fights on CC are as entertaining as watching pier runners being left behind at Caribbean ports.  

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We have only arrived back to the ship late once, and it was a ship tour. As soon as we pulled in they got us quickly to boarding and there was someone from the ship chewing off the ear of the lady driver.

 

We normally are back at the ship an hour before last boarding. We don't want the stress, and neither of us can run anymore anyway.

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We were on a ship's tour that was over an hour late returning.  People still sat on their balconies and booed us.  It was embarrassing but I guess they couldn't have known it wasn't our fault.  Whenever I see a large group of people arriving late I assume it was a ship's tour.

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5 hours ago, gooch47 said:

We were on a ship's tour that was over an hour late returning.  People still sat on their balconies and booed us.  It was embarrassing but I guess they couldn't have known it wasn't our fault.  Whenever I see a large group of people arriving late I assume it was a ship's tour.

Normally if they are running along the dock they are most likely independent, as with the ship tours you have no incentive to run.

 

Seen it too many times with the ship pulling away from the dock, both as a pax and working aboard.

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On 11/11/2018 at 11:07 PM, GUT2407 said:

Never seen one yet.

The one we saw wasn’t running. A taxi pulled up, driver walked around to the other side, opened the back door and pulled the guy out. Dropped him on the pavement, got back in and drove off. I guess he didn’t care about trying to get the fare paid. 

The body didn’t move and we were all hanging over the rails thinking the worst. 

Ship’s crew came over and one of them shook the guy and then rolled him over.

He started trying to fight, so they rolled him back on his face, grabbed his arms and dragged him into the gangway.

The gangway was pulled in and off we went. 

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On 9/23/2018 at 12:50 PM, chengkp75 said:

 

There are theoretical calculations of power to speed based on the hull design, etc, and then dealing with fuel consumption versus horsepower, but most of our data comes from the test bed data for the engine's fuel consumption and empirical data of power/speed gathered during sea trials. 

 

 

Oops.  wrong quote.  Sorry

 

PS: Thanks for the info.  

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5 hours ago, jagsfan said:

The one we saw wasn’t running. A taxi pulled up, driver walked around to the other side, opened the back door and pulled the guy out. Dropped him on the pavement, got back in and drove off. I guess he didn’t care about trying to get the fare paid. 

The body didn’t move and we were all hanging over the rails thinking the worst. 

Ship’s crew came over and one of them shook the guy and then rolled him over.

He started trying to fight, so they rolled him back on his face, grabbed his arms and dragged him into the gangway.

The gangway was pulled in and off we went. 

 

Can't leave without the captain.  :classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin::classic_biggrin:

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