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Wow, we saved $1400 on two tickets departing from Orlando rather than JAX


4774Papa
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This isn't a choice air issue, but thought it merited a post.

 

We normally fly out of Jacksonville, FL airport, since we live on St. Simons Island, Ga, about 65 miles from the airport. Occasionally we can snag a deal out of our local airport at Brunswick, which has no parking fees.

 

However, after searching for airfare for our Norway, Arctic Circle cruise on Serenade of the Seas next June, I came up with a fare exceeding $1600 pp from JAX to Stockholm, then returning from Copenhagen to JAX. It seemed high, so I ran a search departing from Orlando, which is about 2.5 hours south of JAX. We saved a bundle a few years ago flying to Istanbul out of Orlando.

 

Instead of paying about $3300 for two from JAX, our tickets ran about $1900. Pretty good considering we will just use about 8 gallons of gas more driving to Orlando.

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Nice! Hey, one thing to factor in too is driving - I've had to do long-ish drives after longhaul flights, and it's always unpleasant and sometimes dangerous. You know you better than me, but one thing for everyone to keep in mind is if they want to fly back from another continent and immediately hop in a car and drive several hours.

 

 

 

That being said, you saved so much that, even if it did bother you, it would still be a heck of a lot cheaper to land, grab an airport hotel for the night, and continue in the morning.

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A lot of people don't realise how much difference price can vary even by airports that are geographically close to one another. Airlines charge what they can for tickets not based on a "cost plus" basis.

 

I use ITA Matrix to search for flights where there is a "Nearby" filter so you can search for all departures/arrivals within a certain geographical range (that you can set), you can also then filter out results that don't work for you.

https://matrix.itasoftware.com/

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Yea, this happens often. I always search all regional airports. From Miami also looking at MIA and FLL. To Boston, I would search Boston, Manchester, Worcester and even Providence sometimes. LA has a ton etc..

 

Surprised to see such a massive difference. Was it the same airline? Or a completely different airline from Orlando.

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Yea, this happens often. I always search all regional airports. From Miami also looking at MIA and FLL. To Boston, I would search Boston, Manchester, Worcester and even Providence sometimes. LA has a ton etc..

 

Surprised to see such a massive difference. Was it the same airline? Or a completely different airline from Orlando.

It was the same airline, Delta.

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Yea, this happens often. I always search all regional airports. From Miami also looking at MIA and FLL. To Boston, I would search Boston, Manchester, Worcester and even Providence sometimes. LA has a ton etc..

 

Surprised to see such a massive difference. Was it the same airline? Or a completely different airline from Orlando.

 

Obviously regional airports are more expensive because so few planes can taxi at the same time with only one runway and there are only two or three gates for outgoing flights. But when looking at TPA, JAX, and MCO, I just don't get it. They're all vinternational airports with several runways and lots of gates and airlines, but MCO is usually the least expensive. I haven't flown out of TPA since moving to Florida and only flew out of JAX twice because it had nonstop flights, not the airfares.

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Obviously regional airports are more expensive because so few planes can taxi at the same time with only one runway and there are only two or three gates for outgoing flights.

 

What?

 

One runway has nothing to do with fares, or even with airport capacity. Both Mumbai and Gatwick operate with one runway, and each handle over 45 MILLION passengers per year.

 

But when looking at TPA, JAX, and MCO, I just don't get it. They're all vinternational airports with several runways and lots of gates and airlines, but MCO is usually the least expensive. I haven't flown out of TPA since moving to Florida and only flew out of JAX twice because it had nonstop flights, not the airfares.

 

Airplane ticket prices are a function of supply and demand. They are impacted by the market, not just the distances of flight. Leisure markets tend to have lower pricing while business markets tend to have higher. MCO is a huge leisure destination. (Doh!!).

 

And, once again, the number of runways and gates has nothing to do with pricing. Number of airlines does, as a function of competition in the supply/demand equation.

 

Econ 101. And if it wasn't already mentioned.....Econ 101.

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Elementary math: If an airport has 2 runways it can have twice as many airplnes as the one in Gainesville if all variable factors are equal.
So take London Gatwick (one runway) and London Heathrow (two runways).

 

If your theory were right, then why is it generally so much more expensive to fly from Heathrow than from Gatwick?

 

The truth is that big hubs - particularly fortress hubs like Atlanta - are often much more expensive to fly from than small regional airports. It's a common complaint from those who live in big cities where big hubs are situated.

 

Indeed, that is so true that it's spawned lots of stories about hidden city ticketing and the airlines' struggles against that. You do know what hidden city ticketing is, don't you, and why people use it?

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Indeed, that is so true that it's spawned lots of stories about hidden city ticketing and the airlines' struggles against that. You do know what hidden city ticketing is, don't you, and why people use it?

Oh yes, sometimes its a great trick. Recently, my husband needed to fly from our home city of Baton Rouge to Atlanta, where he was purchasing a car. One way BTR to ATL was running $320-ish, so I booked him one way BTR to Orlando, connecting through ATL, for $128. In ATL, after departing plane, he just walked out of airport to his waiting ride.

 

For those who haven't done this but are considering it, make sure you remember that you can't check luggage. Also, you can only do it for a one way flight, or on the return leg of a flight. Another thing to keep in mind, if traveling during bad weather, you could be rerouted, your ticketing calls for the airline to get you to destination, but not through any particular routing or connecting city. Hidden city ticketing is against airlines rules, doing it too often can get you flagged.

 

But it sure is genius when needed!

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My mom was the one who said JAX flights are more expensive " because it is a small airport." So is she clueless too?
I hope that you'll forgive me saying that based on your reports of her performance so far in booking a simple and straightforward trans-Atlantic trip - of the kind that many people do once every couple of weeks, or even more often than that, and which should at most only take about an hour or two to set up and book - she doesn't immediately seem to be an expert in the arcane corners of airline revenue management, or to have any obvious expertise in this subject.
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My mom was the one who said JAX flights are more expensive " because it is a small airport." So is she clueless too?

 

Your reasoning for why flights out of smaller airports is completely off though.

 

Generally, flight to smaller cities are more expensive (supply and demand). Less flights, not a lot of supply, but still demand for the flights, expensive. Or not much demand will also make it expensive for the flights to make a profit.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with taxiing, ramps gate space etc.. Nothing.

 

Obviously regional airports are more expensive because so few planes can taxi at the same time with only one runway and there are only two or three gates for outgoing flights. But when looking at TPA, JAX, and MCO, I just don't get it. They're all vinternational airports with several runways and lots of gates and airlines, but MCO is usually the least expensive. I haven't flown out of TPA since moving to Florida and only flew out of JAX twice because it had nonstop flights, not the airfares.

 

 

MCO is about 8-times the amount of traffic JAX does. JAX is a not a larger international airport, it is a mid-sized airport. Tampa is a large airport, while MCO is a major airport. MCO has about twice as busy as Tampa.

 

 

Usually large gateways like MCO can have competitive fares compared to say a Jacksonville or West Palm Beach.

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I hope that you'll forgive me saying that based on your reports of her performance so far in booking a simple and straightforward trans-Atlantic trip - of the kind that many people do once every couple of weeks, or even more often than that, and which should at most only take about an hour or two to set up and book - she doesn't immediately seem to be an expert in the arcane corners of airline revenue management, or to have any obvious expertise in this subject.

 

This is what CC posters do not understand: Everyone involved in booking our flights knows how important long layovers at international airports are, especially huge ones like ATL, and arriving at the final destination during a limited time range The GNV-BUD flight with 2 stops was bad ayway; I was just responding to the thread title question to say no, you can't trust air bookings through cruise lines.

 

People need to remembe the fact that my criteria are not the same as theirs does not make me or Mom bad at choosing all of our flights. For some people, MCT works better. Not us - hat would almost guarantee missing the next flight. Others can be more flexible with destination arrival times than Mom is. It all depends on the traveler's scenario and vacation styles.

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People need to remembe the fact that my criteria are not the same as theirs does not make me or Mom bad at choosing all of our flights.
That's beside the point here. The current discussion isn't about you picking your flights, but about whether there's some structural/capacity/operational reason why flying from small airports is more expensive than flying from large airports. With respect, neither you nor your mother has shown any obvious expertise or specialist knowledge in the subjects of structural/capacity/operational constraints on airlines, airline revenue management, or their combined effect on pricing tendencies.

 

What is clear, though, is that flying from large airports with vastly greater amounts of capacity is often structurally more expensive than flying from smaller airports. This is so well-known and so well-established that it's spawned decades of battles between airlines and passengers, including the use of hidden city ticketing that's already been mentioned. That fact alone, with respect, completely undermines what both you and your mother have said about this subject.

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What is clear, though, is that flying from large airports with vastly greater amounts of capacity is often structurally more expensive than flying from smaller airports. This is so well-known and so well-established that it's spawned decades of battles between airlines and passengers, including the use of hidden city ticketing that's already been mentioned. That fact alone, with respect, completely undermines what both you and your mother have said about this subject.

 

This statement completelly contradicts what actually happens - huge airports being much cheaper than mid-size airports. I would expect MCO to always be the most expensive airport of my four choices if I am reading this correctly.

 

What is hidden city ticketing?

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What is clear, though, is that flying from large airports with vastly greater amounts of capacity is often structurally more expensive than flying from smaller airports. This is so well-known and so well-established that it's spawned decades of battles between airlines and passengers, including the use of hidden city ticketing that's already been mentioned. That fact alone, with respect, completely undermines what both you and your mother have said about this subject.

 

This statement completelly contradicts what actually happens - huge airports being much cheaper than mid-size airports. I would expect MCO to always be the most expensive airport of my four choices if I am reading this correctly.

 

What is hidden city ticketing?

 

All I know is if you live in a city where one airline predominates (Atlanta/Delta) and my airport (Houston/United), I believe the terminology is they are fortress hubs, the prices are generally higher not lower. These are very large airports, but when United has 80% of the slots in Houston, why do they need to offer cheap fares?

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This statement completelly contradicts what actually happens - huge airports being much cheaper than mid-size airports. I would expect MCO to always be the most expensive airport of my four choices if I am reading this correctly.
A sample size of one does not validate your thesis. In your local area, you'd do better to look at ATL and MIA.

 

If you get out there and fly around the country and the rest of the world all the time, you'll see it.

 

What is hidden city ticketing?

Try this?

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/4/2018 at 2:27 PM, 4774Papa said:

This isn't a choice air issue, but thought it merited a post.

 

We normally fly out of Jacksonville, FL airport, since we live on St. Simons Island, Ga, about 65 miles from the airport. Occasionally we can snag a deal out of our local airport at Brunswick, which has no parking fees.

 

However, after searching for airfare for our Norway, Arctic Circle cruise on Serenade of the Seas next June, I came up with a fare exceeding $1600 pp from JAX to Stockholm, then returning from Copenhagen to JAX. It seemed high, so I ran a search departing from Orlando, which is about 2.5 hours south of JAX. We saved a bundle a few years ago flying to Istanbul out of Orlando.

 

Instead of paying about $3300 for two from JAX, our tickets ran about $1900. Pretty good considering we will just use about 8 gallons of gas more driving to Orlando.

 

Good for you!  I do love a bargain too.  

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