USAir (3 threads combined)

[pattyk]

I am flying with USAIRWAYS the first week in Jan. I have heard alot about them going bankrupt, is there somewhere on the web where i can keep up with everything that is happening with them. Don't want to caught offguard.

[nutbrown]

Use Yahoo Finance or CBS Marketwatch. If you look up the USAirways stock, they have links to articles and company press releases.

 

I am using US Airways Frequent Flier miles in February. As a backup I bought refundable tickets on a different airline for the same dates. I didn't want to be caught without a way to get to my cruise as that is vacation time where I live. If USAirways is still in business I can cancel my other flights and get a refund.

[Globaliser]

is there somewhere on the web where i can keep up with everything that is happening with them

Two likely sources of information that I would suggest:-

1. Our very own US Airways thread here.
2. This US Airways forum on a frequent flyers' BB.

But if anyone suggests going to http://www.airliners.net, I'd recommend that you ignore them. The rubbish there far outweighs the occasional nugget of good information.

 

Other than that, read the financial press online.

[Tess2mommies]

Lots of airlines are bankrupt now days, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm going on a cruise leaving from San Juan and i'm flying usairways from San Francisco with a transfer in philly.

 

If you visit the usairways site they have plenty of info on them being bankrupt.

 

Besides, if that does happen they have to put passengers on another flight or give a refund, but if you explain that you have a cruise or something they will put you on an airline flying to where you were intended to go.

 

Hope that helped!

[bUU]

I really hate to be Mr. Doom and Gloom, but.... (and please keep in mind that I have my own reservation on US Airways for my cruise from San Juan in January...)

 

US Airways' situation is nowhere near close to what other bankrupt airlines are going through (with the possible exception of ATA). Airline industry experts almost all agree that this is very likely to be the end for US Airways. While other airlines either have or are working on plans to return to profitability, US Airways has already outlined their plans, and they don't return the airline to profitability. Based on the current cost of jet fuel, they have enough cash to last through mid-January -- mid-February is wishful thinking -- but by then the largest creditors will have lost a good amount of the money they could have if they pull the plug now. As soon as they're sure there is no hope, the creditors will take action.

 

While folks with reservations over the holidays have some hope, I have almost no hope for my flights in January, and would recommend folks make contingency plans, as I have.

 

With regard to accommodation in case US Airways does go under: The law that requires other airlines to offer such accommodations expires in just over two weeks, and there isn't any indication that it will be extended. Even if the law was extended, the last time the law was applied, very few of the displaced passengers were offered any assistance, and the assistance offered was not considered worth it. The law only requires the other airlines to consider offering accommodation to displaced passengers, and only then, after they accommodate all their own passengers first. Also, the other airlines still charge for the accommodation. From what I've read, last time the law was applied, most displaced passengers found their own accommodation at lower cost than they were offered for accommodation under the law!

[Tess2mommies]

Dear mr. gloom and doom

 

While it certainly isn't the best situation for us. I guess for those of us, including myself that has not booked alternate air transportation better hope for the best and keep our fingers crossed that they don't cease travel prior to our cruises.

 

I imagine they'd had to give us a speedy refund and some notice to the cancellation of our flights. Otherwise they'd have a lot of disgruntled customers and lawsuits floating around.

 

Just my opinion and by no means am I an expert of any kind!

[Globaliser]

While it certainly isn't the best situation for us. I guess for those of us, including myself that has not booked alternate air transportation better hope for the best and keep our fingers crossed that they don't cease travel prior to our cruises.

 

I imagine they'd had to give us a speedy refund and some notice to the cancellation of our flights. Otherwise they'd have a lot of disgruntled customers and lawsuits floating around.

I'm afraid I have to agree with bicker here - and although I don't have tickets on US, I do have friends who work for them and are likely to be long-term unemployed in a matter of weeks.

 

As to US giving refunds and being afraid of lawsuits: When the airline has so completely run out of money that it can no longer operate even though it's in bankruptcy protection, just where do you think that they are going to get any cash to pay refunds to passengers? And even if you sued them, just how would you propose to get any money out of what will by then be a very dead stone?

 

And if they cease operations and liquidate what's left of their assets to pay a little bit of money back to their secured creditors (those who have mortgages on the aircraft and charges on the company, etc.), do you really think that the disgruntlement of their passengers is going to bother them one bit? After all, if they get that far, they're never ever going to fly again.

 

I'm afraid that there are some harsh realities for US, and for their pax.

 

Keeping your fingers crossed isn't your only course of action. You could still book alternative air travel for when you need to travel. But only you can decide whether the cost and the risks balance out at whatever price you would need to pay to do it. If you do book something else, you also need to think about whether you want to book a refundable ticket in case all is still well with US on your travel dates, or whether you want a cheapie. And you will also need to consider the financial health of the airline you book with. My own view remains that United Airlines is still at considerable risk of going into liquidation in the same way within the next 6 months.

[bUU]

If they're Chapter 7, disgruntled customers and lawsuits from unsecured creditors is the least of their worries. They have secured creditors to deal with first. That's the real problem.

 

Again, my interest not to shock people, but just to encouraging everyone holding US Airways tickets to protect themselves.

 

US Airways' demise is surely going to be much more difficult to deal with than Vanguard's was, because US Airways represents more of the airline industry than Vanguard, and that the industry itself has learned from past experiences that it really isn't worth saving a bankrupt airline. In US Airways' case, experts are projecting that the rest of the industry will wait for the liquidation sale and then purchase only the valuable assets, i.e., basically, the Boston-New York-Washington shuttle.

 

There's been some more bad news for us, today. The flight attendants seem to be leaning towards striking, due to the impending imposition of court-enforced pay-cuts. (A strike would be illegal, of course, which is why the strike talk is so remarkable.)

 

Mechanics and customer service agents are next. Their turn is in two weeks. They can legally strike, and US Airways has said that a strike by either would result in an immediate liquidation.

 

The next aircraft lease payment is due January 15. The key issue there is whether the lease payment will leave them with enough cash to continue to operate. Again, based on current expenditures for fuel, the answer is probably no.

 

If they make it past January 15, the next date after that is January 20, by when they have to commit to their gate leases in PIT or lose them. While PIT has experienced a significant cut in service this past month, it is almost certain that most US Airways PIT operations will close January 20.

 

The CFO gave notice that he's taking a new job. That's a chilling thought.

 

Please take steps to protect yourself if you can.

[bUU]

I have to disagree with you about one thing Globalizer: I think there is almost no chance of United going under -- specifically because once US Airways goes under, there will be more breathing-room for United (and Delta, for that matter). Only one of the legacy airlines need go under. Worst case for United, I think, is either a downsizing or merger (although we may be very surprised about what airline United would merge with!)

 

I didn't take steps to protect myself for my flight on US Airways tomorrow. I consider myself lucky. I think I'll even make it home on Monday, though I'm not even sure about that right now. I think the best folks can hope for January and February is that US Airways goes under soon-enough that they can get their credit-card company to try to reverse the charges.

[Globaliser]

I have to disagree with you about one thing Globalizer: I think there is almost no chance of United going under -- specifically because once US Airways goes under, there will be more breathing-room for United (and Delta, for that matter). Only one of the legacy airlines need go under. Worst case for United, I think, is either a downsizing or merger (although we may be very surprised about what airline United would merge with!)

I'd agree that US' demise will make life easier for UA. But UA's problems go so deep, and management appears to have so little strategy, that I'm not confident that they will be the main beneficiaries. This whole "Ted" thing is going the same way as "Song", ie nowhere. Other than that, what else is happening? It's just a question of the same old same old, with a little tweak here and a little tweak there. So long as much of the workforce remains of the "full pay to the last day" mindset, UA will be limping.

 

DL at least seems (at the moment) to be confronting its problems head-on and taking some of the big steps that are needed - even if it was a bit late to the realisation that they had to be taken.

 

Of course, I would be the first to admit that I have a hostile animus towards UA. I see them as the evil monster in the horror movie that just refuses to die, however many times our hero cuts its head off. :D

[Globaliser]

I'd agree that US' demise will make life easier for UA. But UA's problems go so deep, and management appears to have so little strategy, that I'm not confident that they will be the main beneficiaries. This whole "Ted" thing is going the same way as "Song", ie nowhere. Other than that, what else is happening? It's just a question of the same old same old, with a little tweak here and a little tweak there.

A bit of UA news I came across today:-

United Will Try For Another Round Of Labor Concessions

By Steven Lott

11/08/2004 08:21:03 AM

 

United plans to go back to its unions for another round of labor concessions, as the carrier acknowledged it needs to cut a total $2 billion to exit bankruptcy and compete with low-cost carriers.

 

The airline on Friday asked a bankruptcy judge for the green light to start negotiating for about $725 million in concessions. CEO Glenn Tilton has been warning for months that the company will have to make more cuts to survive, but only last week did the airline assign a price tag to labor and overall cost savings. In a message to staff, Tilton said the $2 billion annual savings includes the termination and replacement of the airline's pension plans.

 

...

This is the sort of thing you expect to read in the first month of Chapter 11, not after the airline's been in it for 2 years.

[bUU]

Strike threat hits US Airways

 

Flight attendants at bankrupt US Airways Group Inc. have authorized their union to call a strike should a federal court allow airline management to void their contract, the Association of Flight Attendants said yesterday.

Full article: http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/12/14/strike_threat_hits_us_airways/

[Seaside2358]

After reading this thread I'm really in a quandry as to what to do. So are you saying Delta may be a better choice than United? I guess I might just keep monitoring things for awhile and hope the pricing doesn't jump sky high before I book:confused:

[bUU]

I don't think we can say Delta is a better choice than United. Continental and American may qualify as "better choices" (with regard to reliability of continued operations as currently planned) but not Delta.

[kely53]

We are a party of 15 who will be on the 1/2/05 sailing of the Mariner. Our air transportation was also arranged by RCCL. Several people are booked on USAir while others are on United and Delta. If it does happen that USAir is not in service, is it RCCL's responsibility to find us alternative flights? I pick up our documents from our TA tomorrow and will also check with her. Besides worrying about the weather, now we have this to worry about!!! Thanks! Karen

[bUU]

If you booked your air travel through the cruise line (i.e., they picked the flights), then it is technically their responsibility to find you alternative accommodations. However, you should check the fine print for limitations of liability in case of significant disruption to the air travel system in the country. The reality is, putting aside all the legal parameters that may exist, if there are 5000 seats flying from Pennsylvania to Florida, and they're mostly full right now, and two-thirds of them vanish, then regardless of responsibility there is no actual means to satisfy an obligation to get someone from Pennsylvania to Florida (by air). Again, I'm not sure what the legal limits of responsibility are, but beyond that there are these physical limits to contend with.

 

I do suspect that, as is common practice in the travel and hospitality industry, there is an upper-limit on liability in cases like this, being the full amount of money you paid the supplier for the services. That means that, worst-case scenario, you could end up getting your cruise fare back (including the air portion, and any pre-paid ship excursions). However, such protections almost NEVER extend beyond that, to include other costs you may incur as a result of the cancellation, such as pre-paid non-ship excursions (though those suppliers may elect to give you a refund).

 

For me, the biggest "cost" there would be the cost of having nothing to do with a week I got off from work. Even if I got all my money back, that would still be a problem for me. Since that's not the cruise line's responsibility nor the airline's, I have taken out my own personal form of insurance, that increases my chances of getting to the port on time. Having your own contingency plan worked out might make you sleep better at night, like mine helps me.

[bUU]

Looks like US Airways has got its agreement with its travel agents. Now on to the machinists!

[kely53]

bicker, thanks so much for the responses. I did see my TA and have decided to take my chances. To secure a backup plan would involve arrangements for 6 people in my immediate family......from 3 separate airports. I have only been on one cruise prior to this (Celebrity) and that did not require airfare. I booked this cruise through my TA and decided at the time to have RCL make the flight arrangements too. I just figured that with 15 people scattered in different cities, it would be easier. However, I had not discovered CC website when I made my reservations and all of the great advice that is to be found there. I do not feel I I would book airfare through RCL again. But the true test will be how RCL handles our reservations if USAir does cease operation before our flight date. Our return flights are on Delta.

The most disappointing part for me if we didnt make this cruise is that I chose this date because my kids are in their last years of college and I figured this might be the last chance for a special winter vacation (as they get the long break at xmas). Hopefully by this time next year, they will be gainfully employed !! Have a great holiday everyone

Karen

[bUU]

Best wishes with your arrangements, Karen!

[bUU]

Recent news:

 

US Airways Senior Vice President Jerry Glass is optimistic he can reach a consensual cost-cutting agreement with the International Association of Machinists that satisfies the company while reflecting input from the union. "All of our cards are on the table and we are not holding anything back," Glass said. The IAM, representing 9,000 mechanics and baggage handlers, is the only large labor group not to strike a tentative accord with US Airways, which is trying to cut $1 billion from all unions. Negotiators representing the mechanics have not met with the airline this week. The company is seeking more than $373 million from the union. A judge could cancel the IAM's contract on Jan. 6 absent a consensual deal.

[bUU]

Hundreds of US Airways employees called in sick yesterday and today, according to a local flight attendants representative, and 100 flights were canceled across US Airways' system yesterday, many of them due to crew shortages.

Full story: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04360/432305.stm

[leighuf]

On Christmas Eve at our airport (Manchester, NH), all inbound US AIRWAYS flights from the night previous were cancelled so passengers expectin to fly out today didn't have an airplane. WHY? Apparently, problems throughout the airline caused the cancelled flights.

 

YIKES! Luckily, I was scheduled on SOUTHWEST!

[pattyk]

will be leaving on jan. 6 and am just biting my fingers-any one have any new news about this airlines??

[bUU]

Check out the US Airways thread. We try to keep that thread up-to-date with the latest news.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=2618535

[palmtre2]

You shouldn't have a problem with early January, I don't see management throwing up their hands yet. There is talk of a financial bail out from states with hub cities. I on the other hand, have a late March flight and have booked an alternate, very expensive, but refundable ticket with another airline.