Questions for the Craps players!

[MrCo9]

I'd love to be able to look at something and memorize the payout odds so I know what to expect!

 

Kelly :)

 

Print this out and then copy it onto some card stock and cover it with tape.

 

$6 Place bets (The bets you SHOULD be making if you're at a casino that ONLY offers Double Odds on the 6 and 8 pay $7.

 

Amount bet Pay out 5 & 9 Amount bet Pay out

$6 $7 $5 $7 (Bought)

$12 $14 $10 $14

$18 $21 $15 $21

$24 $28 $25 $35 ($36)

$30 $35 $35 $49

$42 $49 $50 $70 ($74)

$60 $70 $75 $105 ($111)

$90 $105 $125 $175 ($185)

$120 $140 $200 $280 ($290)

$150 $175 $300 $420 ($435)

$210 $245 $400 $560 ($580)

$300 $350 $600 $840 ($870)

$450 $525 $800 $1120 ($1160)

$600 $700 $1000 $1400 ($1450)

$900 $1050 $1500 $2100 ($2175)

$1200 $1400

$1500 $1750

$2100 $2450

 

Did not turn out as the nice grid I made. When you copy it, put spaces between the "Amount bet Pay out 5 & 9 Amount bet Pay out " and the number below until they line up nice.

 

 

4 and 10 Every $5 gets you 9, until you buy them. Then you get paid double, less the Vig. If you have to pay the vig up front I don't recommend buying the bets, just make them as place bets.

 

$5 pays $9

$10 pays $18

$15 pays $27

$20 pays $39

$25 pays $49

$50 pays $98

$75 pays $146

$100 pays $195

$150 pays $292

$250 pays $488

$400 pays $780

$600 pays $1170

$1000 pays $1950

[MrCo9]

Your odds bet can be any amout up to the maximum allowed (just remember that to get the best pay-out on your odds bet you should bet in increments of $5 on the 4,6,8,10, and increments of $2 (even numbers) on the 5 and 9...but it is not required that you do so).

CLOSE, but no cigar for you. On the 4 and 10 it does not matter what you bet, as long as you are within the table min and max. As the 4 and 10 pay double, any amount is proper. You were correct about $5 increments on the 6 and 8 and $2 increments on the 5 and 9.

[jty1220]

So if the point is a 4 and I want to place odds, I just put the money behind my pass line bet right?

[MrCo9]

Why the odds pay what they do??: There are 6 ways to roll the 7 1 & 6, 6 & 1, 2 & 5, 5 & 2, 3 & 4, 4 & 3 "Wait Mr. Co9, that's only 3 ways" If one die were red and the other blue, you would see that I am correct. Blue 1 & red 6 is not the same as Blue 6 and Red 1 etc.

 

There are 3 ways to roll a 4 or 10 1 & 3, 2 & 2, 3 & 1. 4 & 6, 5 & 5, 6 & 4. 6 ways to lose versus 3 ways to win is 2:1 against the number rolling, that is why the Pass Line and Come Bet odds on the 4 & 10 pay 2:1

 

There are 4 ways to roll a 5 or 9 1 & 4, 2 & 3, 3 & 2, 4 &1. 3 & 6, 5 & 4, 4 & 5, 6 & 3. 6 ways to lose versus 4 ways to win is 3:2 against the number rolling, that is why the Pass Line and Come Bet odds on the 5 & 9 pay 3:2 and you should ALWAYS bet in even increment, otherwise the casino gets to cheat you out of $.50 when you win.

 

There are 5 ways to roll a 6 or 8 1 & 5, 2 & 4, 3 & 4, 4 & 2, 1 & 5. 2 & 6, 3 & 5, 4 & 4, 5 & 3, 6 & 2. 6 ways to lose versus 5 ways to win is 6:5 against the number rolling, that is why the Pass Line and Come Bet odds on the 6 & 8 pay 6:5 and you should ALWAYS bet in $5 increments or the casino gets to cheat you out of up to $.80 when you win.

[MrCo9]

So if the point is a 4 and I want to place odds, I just put the money behind my pass line bet right?

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. You are correct, the odds go behind the pass line bet. Please leave enough room between the 2 bets for a die to land there. Does not matter what the point is (4,5,6,8,9 0r 10), that is where the odds go. And come bet odds are placed in the come and the dealer notified that they are your odds or they may become your new come bet.

[MrCo9]

Does your odds bet have to be double your pass line or come bet?

No, they can be in any amount that is proper for that number ($5 increments for the 6 and 8, $2 increments for the 5 and 9), that meet the table min and max.

[jty1220]

Ok i am getting there. but confused as to what MrCo9 just wrote about always playing in $5.00 increments. I have read and heard that when betting on the 6 and 8 you always want to bet in forms of $6.00?

 

Also if i am betting the pass line and pass odds, I am hoping for the original point. What is the difference with come? Is that the next roll ?

[MrCo9]

Let's try this again.

 

6 or 8

 

Amount bet...............Pay out

 

$6 .............................$7

$12 ...........................$14

$18 ...........................$21

$24........................... $28

$30 ...........................$35

$42 ...........................$49

$60 ...........................$70

$90 ...........................$105

$120 .........................$140

$150 .........................$175

$210 .........................$245

$300 .........................$350

$450 .........................$525

$600 .........................$700

$900 .........................$1050

$1200 ........................$1400

$1500 ........................$1750

$2100 ........................$2450

 

 

5 & 9

 

Amount bet...... Pay out (Bought)

 

$5 ......................$7

$10 ....................$14

$15 ....................$21

$25 ....................$35 ($36)

$35 ....................$49 ($51)

$50 ....................$70 ($74)

$75 ....................$105 ($111)

$125 ..................$175 ($185)

$200 ..................$280 ($290)

$300 ..................$420 ($435)

$400 ..................$560 ($580)

$600 ..................$840 ($870)

$800 ..................$1120 ($1160)

$1000 ................$1400 ($1450)

$1500 ................$2100 ($2175)

 

4 and 10

 

$5 pays $9

$10 pays $18

$15 pays $27

$20 pays $39

$25 pays $49

$50 pays $98

$75 pays $146

$100 pays $195

$150 pays $292

$250 pays $488

$400 pays $780

$600 pays $1170

$1000 pays $1950

 

Tada!!!!!

[MrCo9]

Ok i am getting there. but confused as to what MrCo9 just wrote about always playing in $5.00 increments. I have read and heard that when betting on the 6 and 8 you always want to bet in forms of $6.00?

 

Also if i am betting the pass line and pass odds, I am hoping for the original point. What is the difference with come? Is that the next roll ?

$6 increments are for place bets $5 increments are for pass line and come bet odds.

 

Come bets mean that the money bet goes to the next number rolled. Same rules as the Pass Line, you win on a 7 or 11, lose on a 2, 3 or 12, and your money goes to a 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10 and then you hope that that number COMEs again. That is why it's called a Come bet (At least that is what I tell my beginner players).

[jty1220]

Let's try this again.

 

6 or 8

 

Amount bet...............Pay out

 

$6 .............................$7

$12 ...........................$14

$18 ...........................$21

$24........................... $28

$30 ...........................$35

$42 ...........................$49

$60 ...........................$70

$90 ...........................$105

$120 .........................$140

$150 .........................$175

$210 .........................$245

$300 .........................$350

$450 .........................$525

$600 .........................$700

$900 .........................$1050

$1200 ........................$1400

$1500 ........................$1750

$2100 ........................$2450

 

 

5 & 9

 

Amount bet...... Pay out (Bought)

 

$5 ......................$7

$10 ....................$14

$15 ....................$21

$25 ....................$35 ($36)

$35 ....................$49 ($51)

$50 ....................$70 ($74)

$75 ....................$105 ($111)

$125 ..................$175 ($185)

$200 ..................$280 ($290)

$300 ..................$420 ($435)

$400 ..................$560 ($580)

$600 ..................$840 ($870)

$800 ..................$1120 ($1160)

$1000 ................$1400 ($1450)

$1500 ................$2100 ($2175)

 

4 and 10

 

$5 pays $9

$10 pays $18

$15 pays $27

$20 pays $39

$25 pays $49

$50 pays $98

$75 pays $146

$100 pays $195

$150 pays $292

$250 pays $488

$400 pays $780

$600 pays $1170

$1000 pays $1950

 

Tada!!!!!

 

Is this for place bets?

[MrCo9]

MrCo9, is buying the 5 and 9 common in Vegas? In AC (where you pay the vig up front) you almost never see it (I saw a guy try to do it recently, and I had to explain to the dealer what he was talking about). Also here they'll let you buy the 4/10 up to $35 for $1.

No, not that common, mostly because most players do not know it is possible. When I am working I am not allowed to inform the players. Why would my boss want me telling a player how to take more of his money?? I have seen it before, many Hawaiians will do it once they reach the $100 mark. $2 vig on $35 - $50 4's and 10's is what we charge. $30 we let go for $1.

[MrCo9]

Is this for place bets?

Yes, I can do one for come bets, but as this is a cruise casino board and no cruise casino that I know of offers better than double odds, I see no reason to use my time making a chart for bets I will NOT make. On a Double odds table the ONLY time I'm making a Pass Line bet is when I'm shooting. And then I might bet both the Pass and Don't Pass and make a place bet on the point.

 

Just remember that Pass Line(a) and Come Bet(a) odds pay 2:1(x) on the 4 and 10, 3:2(y) on the 5 and 9, 6:5(z) for the 6 and 8.

 

The formulas are:

 

a + 6:5(z) = Payoff on a 6 or 8

a + 3:2(y) = Payoff on a 5 or 9

a + 2(x) = Payoff on a 4 or 10

[jty1220]

Are you saying that on a cruise casino you shouldnt play odds? But normally you would?

[Jeffffffs]

Yes, I can do one for come bets, but as this is a cruise casino board and no cruise casino that I know of offers better than double odds,

 

NCL offers 3/4/5x odds in its casinos.

 

Isn't the house advantage on a pass/2x odds still lower than the advantage on a place bet? I see that the payout is higher on the place bet, but you miss out on the opportunity to win with the 7/11 on the come out. I prefer to place (and progressively press) the numbers anyway, but I've always believed that a pass/come with double odds was still the better bet (from a house edge perspective).

 

jty, from a beginners perspective, I would recommend sticking to place bets on the 6/8 and possibly adding the pass line as you get more comfortable. Keeping track of come bets/odds/etc can be tricky for a beginner. It also requires a bigger bankroll to make multiple come/2x odds bets.

[philv]

Thank you both for your advice...much appreciated!

 

He also didn't recommend going to the "dark side" even though I've read HERE the odds are SLIGHTLY better by betting on the don't pass/don't come lines with odds on both (I think I'll need to grow some cajones before I try this, lol).

I unashamedly play the dark side when the 7 outs keep coming and coming. I also play the dark side sometimes when I'm the shooter, sometimes I'm just cursed and might as well make some money. ;)

[MrCo9]

Are you saying that on a cruise casino you shouldnt play odds? But normally you would?

It's YOUR money, you can do WHATEVER you want with it. I will not take Come Bet or Pass Line odds on a table that pays less than 3-4-5. 3-4-5 as that is what I consider to be the "Break even" point for when odds overcome placebets.

 

For example you have $30 bets on all the numbers, if you had the same $30 on a double odds table $10 flat with $20 odds, you'd get $35 vs $34 for the 6 and 8, $42 vs $40 on the 5 and 9 $58 vs $50 on the 4 and 10.

 

On a 3-4-5 table it would be $5 with $25 on the 6 and 8 for $35 or $35, both pay the same. $6 with 424 for the 5 and 9, both pay $42 $7.50 with $22.50 (A bet you can not make, but the numbers are used for demonstration purposes) for $58 vs $52.50 on the 4 and 10.

 

YES, you do win your Come Bet when the 7 or 11 rolls, that is why they say Come Bets have a lower house advantage over Place bets. But at .52545% that means of every $100 I bet the house gets an additional $.52 BIG WHOOP.

[relin711]

 

jty, from a beginners perspective, I would recommend sticking to place bets on the 6/8 and possibly adding the pass line as you get more comfortable. Keeping track of come bets/odds/etc can be tricky for a beginner. It also requires a bigger bankroll to make multiple come/2x odds bets.

 

I just don't get why people advise beginners (or anyone for that matter!) to make bets that have a poorer chance of winning. You know that place bets have lower odds that a pass line bet with full odds.

 

The better advice would be to start by placing a pass line bet at full 2x odds. Do that and do that only. Then, when you are more comfortable, add one come bet (at full odds of course). Then add a 3rd, and so on...

[MrCo9]

I just don't get why people advise beginners (or anyone for that matter!) to make bets that have a poorer chance of winning. You know that place bets have lower odds that a pass line bet with full odds.

 

The better advice would be to start by placing a pass line bet at full 2x odds. Do that and do that only. Then, when you are more comfortable, add one come bet (at full odds of course). Then add a 3rd, and so on...

The reason is a place bet wins the first time that number rolls. For a come bet to win the number has to roll twice. And once AGAIN, the house edge makes very little difference. If one has a house edge of 1.41% and the other 2.5% On a $100 bankroll that is $1.09 BIG WHOOP.

[relin711]

The reason is a place bet wins the first time that number rolls. For a come bet to win the number has to roll twice. And once AGAIN, the house edge makes very little difference. If one has a house edge of 1.41% and the other 2.5% On a $100 bankroll that is $1.09 BIG WHOOP.

 

That 1% difference is the difference between a knowledgeable gambler and a sucker.

 

It's fine if you don't mind being a sucker (or if you can afford it). But you shouldn't be giving advice.

[Jeffffffs]

I just don't get why people advise beginners (or anyone for that matter!) to make bets that have a poorer chance of winning. You know that place bets have lower odds that a pass line bet with full odds.

 

The better advice would be to start by placing a pass line bet at full 2x odds. Do that and do that only. Then, when you are more comfortable, add one come bet (at full odds of course). Then add a 3rd, and so on...

 

For beginners I believe it's easier to get a feel for the game and start to understand payouts placing the 6 and 8. (I'd add the pass line if they have someone helping them, or after they've had a little experience at a table.) Trying to keep track of different points, proper odds, when they're working, when they're off, proper payoffs, etc. is alot for a beginner. Waiting to collect $14 dollars when a 6 or 8 hits, while learning how to interact with the dealer and seeing how the game is played, is much easier.

 

And as MrCo points out, the difference in house edge on a $6 or $12 bet is not material.

[AndyTheK]

I just don't get why people advise beginners (or anyone for that matter!) to make bets that have a poorer chance of winning. You know that place bets have lower odds that a pass line bet with full odds.

 

The better advice would be to start by placing a pass line bet at full 2x odds. Do that and do that only. Then, when you are more comfortable, add one come bet (at full odds of course). Then add a 3rd, and so on...

I fully agree, and that is exactly how I play (been doing it that way for almost 50 years).. The math is all the PROOF I need to convince me.

 

This business of "the come bet means the number has to roll twice" is a smokescreen, a rationalization. It ignores the fact that the come will PAY on a roll of seven, when all those delicious place bets are running at top speed into the dealer's chip stack!

 

Some people get hung up over how much a bet pays, and ignore how often it pays. Sure, in the scenarios posted (when your numbers are rolling) you'll be better off, but think about the times when it's "comeout, place a couple of bets, seven". OUCH!

[MrCo9]

I fully agree, and that is exactly how I play (been doing it that way for almost 50 years).. The math is all the PROOF I need to convince me.

 

This business of "the come bet means the number has to roll twice" is a smokescreen, a rationalization. It ignores the fact that the come will PAY on a roll of seven, when all those delicious place bets are running at top speed into the dealer's chip stack!

 

Some people get hung up over how much a bet pays, and ignore how often it pays. Sure, in the scenarios posted (when your numbers are rolling) you'll be better off, but think about the times when it's "comeout, place a couple of bets, seven". OUCH!

Ya know what we dealers call your come bet that wins on a 7 out??? Your consolation prize. Big WHOOP, you won a WHOLE $5, Yippeee Hooray, let's throw a party. You still lose all your other come bets and your odds. Oh, and on a winner 7, my place bets are still there, and where are your come bets?? That's right, racing to the dealers racks.

 

We can agree to disagree, or we can continue to go round and round, your choice.

[evergladesgator]

MrCo9

Yeah, i have to laugh(as i curse under my breath) when i have established a few come bets and a shooter rolls a 7 on the come out and the stick HOLLARS WINNER 7 Pay the line and i cry silently as the dealer takes all my come bets (but returns my odds). OR a shooter establishes a few numbers and SEVENS OUT and the stick HOLLARS WINNER SEVEN PAY THE LINE. Sniff, sniff.:mad: I also have been rollin the bones for 40-50 years and i would recommend for a newbee to put 5$ on the pass line with maximum odds and watch the game, observe and when they feel comfortable go ahead and place the 6 and 8 and then they can move up to the come bets with odds. I have seen new people get paid and the dealer does NOT tell them to pick up their winnings and watch it go as another bet. It's a fast movin game and new people should NOT be afraid but be cautious and watch then attack.

[relin711]

Ya know what we dealers call your come bet that wins on a 7 out??? Your consolation prize. Big WHOOP, you won a WHOLE $5, Yippeee Hooray, let's throw a party. You still lose all your other come bets and your odds. Oh, and on a winner 7, my place bets are still there, and where are your come bets?? That's right, racing to the dealers racks.

 

We can agree to disagree, or we can continue to go round and round, your choice.

 

You're right, we can disagree. But the fact is, you can't argue with the math. You might not care about the math, but you can't argue with it.

 

In other words, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

[todareistodo]

I have a quick question about bankroll...I'm a poor college student and my game of choice has been BJ (when i can find a 5 dollar table) and i usually buy in with $50-$100 depending how much i brought for the trip. I understand craps, but i dont want to have more than $10 max on the table at a time. Would i be better off betting $5 on the pass line with $5 odds behind it, or saving the other $5 for a come bet? Im looking to maximize the fun i have at the table, so just curious what you all think