Greedy airlines

[Sargent_Schultz]

Just to point out, Southwest is a union airline, they pay some of the highest wages in the business.

 

Also, you are kind of contradicting yourself with that line, other than fuel in what ways are say the MD80's less efficient other than fuel.

 

Was it wages or benefits that killed the US Auto Industry?

 

SW flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

[PennyAgain]

Flying for business: time = money. My company won't save any money if we pay less for airfare and I sit around airports for hours trying to get across the country.

 

I use my major airline ff miles for my vacation travel. It works for me.

[Shorex]

I think I'm going to take 6rugrats advice stated on all her posts:

 

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then they beat you with experience.:rolleyes:

 

Best post of the thread!

[kenish]

Don't think for a minute that WN isn't exploring fees, restrictions, and changes to Rapid Rewards that follow the legacy carriers:

http://www.elliott.org/blog/is-southwest-airlines-about-to-start-charging-for-checked-luggage/

 

Of course this is just a marketing survey and it may never come close to fruition....then again, WN cost structure has slowly climbed while the legacy carrier costs have declined. There's still a gap but it's narrowing, especially with WN fuel hedges expiring. With their profits eroding (first quarterly loss in many years), WN has to increase the top line as their middle line grows.

[scottbee]

Was it wages or benefits that killed the US Auto Industry?

 

SW flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

 

Actually SW (Air Namibia) have two types of aircraft in their small fleet, 737s and A340s, specifically;

2 A340-300

1 737-200

2 737-500

1 737-800

Or were you talking about WN (Southwest)?

 

 

SW flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

AS flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

 

All of the other legacy carriers operate multiple types in order to have the flexibility to operate Trans Atlantic & Trans Pacific flights.

[Sargent_Schultz]

When FF perks are taxed as income, it will be interesting to see how dedicated frequent fliers are.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Actually SW (Air Namibia) have two types of aircraft in their small fleet, 737s and A340s, specifically;

2 A340-300

1 737-200

2 737-500

1 737-800

Or were you talking about WN (Southwest)?

 

And, AS flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

 

uh gee. what do you think? if you think. :rolleyes:

 

which model 737 did alaska crash a decade or so ago? hint - it wasn't a 737.

[hdawson]

Where on earth is this thread going? ? ? ?

[Twickenham]

uh gee. what do you think? if you think. :rolleyes:

 

which model 737 did alaska crash a decade or so ago? hint - it wasn't a 737.

 

It was a MD-80 - which is absent from its current fleet: http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/Fleet/Fleet.asp

[hdawson]

Interesting article about AirTran.

 

http://finance.aol.com/quotes/airtran-holdings-inc/aai/nys Check the news story on the right (9:05 AM)

[fbgd]

Interesting article about AirTran.

 

http://finance.aol.com/quotes/airtran-holdings-inc/aai/nys Check the news story on the right (9:05 AM)

 

AirTran given some award? :confused:

 

I'd like to think I keep a pretty good eye on the commercial aviation business and I've never heard of ATW so to call them prestigious is probably a bit of a stretch.

 

FWIW, a lot of these awards are just bought by the airlines themselves so they can tell everyone they're best so and so. Emirates owned up to buying certain set of them over the space of several years.

[hdawson]

Here's ATW's website. I really don't follow global airline business. I do know that AirTran always ranks in the top two or three in the domestic quality rankings in the University of Nebraska's study annually.

 

http://www.atwonline.com/

[Globaliser]

When FF perks are taxed as income, it will be interesting to see how dedicated frequent fliers are.

Do I detect a hint of jealousy here? Did someone cut off your FF perks?

 

Such a step would have very little effect, because the tax "take" would be tiny, and the tax system would a complete nightmare to administer and audit. Those are probably the reasons why nobody has so far bothered to try seriously to tax FF perks.

 

And anyway, none of that affects those of us whose FF perks come entirely from travel purchased from after-tax earned income.

[hdawson]

Globaliser. Are you at all familiar with the aforementioned ATW organization and their credibility?

[cruznjan]

I don't think any of the dinosaur airlines are profitable. Complaints are up. Schedules are wishful thinking. Finally the government did step in and say you can't keep passengers as hostages on a tarmac for hours and hours.

 

Once upon a time airlines were better regulated - perhaps it is overdue. how could it be any worse?

 

The TSA morons already restrict what we can carry on and now the airlines restrict what we can check. There probably should only be one Bozo in charge. What exists today isn't working.

 

I remember when the government regulated the airlines, and things were much better. There were no exorbitant fees and flying was a pleasant experience.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

I haven't read this entire thread but it sounds like a few people are just complaining because they think they are entitled to everything when they are not. A company charges a fee, don't like it?..wonderful don't use their product. It's as simple as that.

 

I like to fly. I have no problem with them keep raising the fees because I want my airline of choice to make money and in return that means better service to me. With each raise in checked bag fees the value of me being a elite member to them raises and raises.

 

I don't get it, if you don't like a company for something, don't use them. Then can charge you $500 for a checked bag and I wouldn't care. Nobody is forcing you to use them. They don't owe you anything.

 

Sorry but these types of threads really annoy me. Get over it.

[Globaliser]

Globaliser. Are you at all familiar with the aforementioned ATW organization and their credibility?

ATW isn't an "organisation" as such. Air Transport World is one of the big trade rags, a monthly which I believe is comparable in standing to Airline Business (the monthly sister of the weekly Flight International).

 

But awards given by such publications don't necessarily mean a huge amount to the customer. For example, the Airline of the Year award to NZ is based in large part on "the use of Performance Based Navigation cockpit technology at weather and terrain challenged destinations", "sterling financial performance and fiscal management" and "leadership role in addressing environmental challenges facing the industry, including conducting the world's first sustainable biofuel flight". None of these have a direct impact on the customer experience.

 

The Market Leadership Award to AirTran recognises its "innovative blending of the traditional low-fare model with service amenities not typical of budget airlines, including a business class cabin and free XM Satellite Radio" and being the "first major airline to offer Wi-Fi on every flight". But there are some who would question the significance of these points. Virgin Blue, for example, comes to mind as an airline that has been making much more specific provision for the business market for some time now; and jetBlue might want some recognition for its provision of on-board radio.

 

None of this is to deny AirTran's qualities. But the significance of such an award can be overstated and misunderstood, even if the awards have not simply been bought by the airline (Skytrax awards are notorious for this, consistently with the baised censorship applied by Skytrax to the http://www.airlinequality.com site). So that's why I tend to ignore them.

[Globaliser]

I remember when the government regulated the airlines, and things were much better. There were no exorbitant fees and flying was a pleasant experience.

Do you remember the fares, though? They were exorbitant. Would you rather go back to those days?

[6rugrats]

I don't get it, if you don't like a company for something, don't use them. Then can charge you $500 for a checked bag and I wouldn't care. Nobody is forcing you to use them. They don't owe you anything.

Sorry but these types of threads really annoy me. Get over it.

 

Whining is never attractive. Agree; no one forces you to give business to a company whose policies you don't like/agree with. Well said!

[Sargent_Schultz]

I haven't read this entire thread but it sounds like a few people are just complaining because they think they are entitled to everything when they are not. A company charges a fee, don't like it?..wonderful don't use their product. It's as simple as that.

 

I like to fly. I have no problem with them keep raising the fees because I want my airline of choice to make money and in return that means better service to me. With each raise in checked bag fees the value of me being a elite member to them raises and raises.

 

I don't get it, if you don't like a company for something, don't use them. Then can charge you $500 for a checked bag and I wouldn't care. Nobody is forcing you to use them. They don't owe you anything.

 

Sorry but these types of threads really annoy me. Get over it.

 

More than one airline has been mismanaged into bankruptcy - those days are coming again. Airlines can try to harge $500/bag and see how fast they are regulated. Those days are coming again.

 

Without the peasants filing the plane, the elite will be riding a bus. Get over it.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Do I detect a hint of jealousy here? Did someone cut off your FF perks?

 

Such a step would have very little effect, because the tax "take" would be tiny, and the tax system would a complete nightmare to administer and audit. Those are probably the reasons why nobody has so far bothered to try seriously to tax FF perks.

 

And anyway, none of that affects those of us whose FF perks come entirely from travel purchased from after-tax earned income.

 

No, I still have perks and FF tickets. Actually one ticket that is about to expire, but at least I can give SW $50 to extend it another year.

 

The airlines are no doubt using the perks as deductions and sheltering some income from tax. Perks given still amount to income to the receiver.

[Gardyloo]

NThe airlines are no doubt using the perks as deductions and sheltering some income from tax. Perks given still amount to income to the receiver.

If you're including the sale of FF miles to third parties like banks or credit card companies, you're incorrect about them sheltering income. FF programs are cash cows to the airlines.

[cruzegirl]

You should at least be allowed one bag for no extra charge.

 

Agree. One bag should come with the ticket that was purchased.

[cruzegirl]

Too easy,,, fly first class.

 

Fully refundable tickets with no change fees. Free checked luggage. Impecable service. Wider seats. Priority security line. Free meals and drinks. Great codeshare partners.

 

Try that on SWA. :D

 

 

opps, had this thread stayed on the original Carnival thread, I wouldn't sound like I was just repeating myself.

Thanks Mods

 

Yeah, and pay what? Sometimes it's hundred's of dollar's more than a regular ticket. They get you coming and going. And WHY oh WHY should I have to pay baggage fee's for 1 checked bag? That should be part of the ticket.

[Shorex]

Perks given still amount to income to the receiver.

 

Oh well - why not jump into the fray. The perks are paid for by buying thousands of dollars worth of airfare each year. I "purchase" my "free" upgrades, redeemable miles etc. and anyone else can chose to do the same - or not. They (the perks) are not income under even the stretch of the IRS. It's a value for value transaction.

 

However, look at business travel where the employer pays for the airfare and the frequent flyer recoups the benefit. Uh oh. The ff is NOT paying for the upgrades etc. himself. What does the IRS think of that? Answer, they tried, unsuccessfully, a few years ago to tax those benefits. The issue was litigated and IRS lost, and after a series of appeals eventually gave up.

 

As a side note, DL is currently running a promotion where the prize is gold medallion status for a year. And guess what, as a "prize" (fully taxable, see IRS publication 525 "Taxable and Nontaxable Income") the assigned value of gold medallion status is $6000. Don't know exactly how they arrived at $6000, but the bean counters and tax lawyers must believe the ff's PAY at least $6000 in fares to purchase gold status. Again, value for value transaction.