Any truth to the myth that slots allways pay better on the first night

[jenabrmeri]

Is anyone going on this cruise? Do you know anything about ship and/ports and which are good excursions. We are not scuber diving nor snorkeling people.

Thanks,

[hancogran]

Is anyone going on this cruise? Do you know anything about ship and/ports and which are good excursions. We are not scuber diving nor snorkeling people.

Thanks,

 

Just noticed you are new to CC, so welcome!

 

Here is a link to the roll call for the Nov 27 Valor cruise.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1260113

You will likely find lots of information regarding excursions and ports in this thread.

[JSpartz]

Gamblers are a superstitious lot. Therefore, they will attribute causality to juxtaposed random events that are nothing more than coincidences. Economists have a phrase for this, "post hoc, ergo propter hoc". It means, "after this, therefore because of this." Gamble whenever you want and hope you don't lose a bundle.

[bigboffs]

Few months back on a cruise, DW was playing a penny slot machine and winning on almost every turn of the "wheels." A casino employee came over and introduced himself as a manager. Told us that his "screen" alerted that there was a machine malfunction and he shut it down. Shortly, thereafter, the manager with a computer type device in his hand and another employee opened the machine up, The manager watching the deivice said OK and the other employee stopped doing something and closed the machine. Needless to say, payouts then became very few and far between.

 

This does not answer the question about which night, if any, are better to use a slot machine on a cruise. However, based on what we saw, the ships casino monitors payouts and has the ability to change them at will and do so.

[mk695]

I own a double diamond quarter slot. I bought it online for $800. It's the same slot, I've seen on the cruise ships. I played the exact same machine on a RC cruise last fall.

 

Trust me, there isn't a way to re-program this machine at will. There is a chip inside that can be replaced by soldering it out. When I bought the machine, the vendor asked me if I'd like it loose (97% payout) or tight (80% payout).

 

Sometime a friend will come over and play and the machine hits and hits and hits and hits. And sometimes it will go weeks without paying so much as a quarter. It's all random. Sometimes, it feels like it's loose and sometimes it feels tight. And I asked for it loose (97% payout).

 

You can unplug it and then plug it back in and a reboots the computer but that's about it.

 

We play with tokens for fun - same size as a quarter.

 

Trust me, it's not as easy as you think to change the odds on a slot machine.

[VideoTech]

I own a double diamond quarter slot. I bought it online for $800. It's the same slot, I've seen on the cruise ships. I played the exact same machine on a RC cruise last fall.

 

Trust me, there isn't a way to re-program this machine at will. There is a chip inside that can be replaced by soldering it out. When I bought the machine, the vendor asked me if I'd like it loose (97% payout) or tight (80% payout).

 

Sometime a friend will come over and play and the machine hits and hits and hits and hits. And sometimes it will go weeks without paying so much as a quarter. It's all random. Sometimes, it feels like it's loose and sometimes it feels tight. And I asked for it loose (97% payout).

 

You can unplug it and then plug it back in and a reboots the computer but that's about it.

 

We play with tokens for fun - same size as a quarter.

 

Trust me, it's not as easy as you think to change the odds on a slot machine.

 

We own a machine similar to this, and you are correct in that the programming of machines of that age can only be changed by changing out the EPROM chip in the mother board in the back of the machine.

 

However, that technology is long out of date. Just as computers have advanced, so have the way slot machines are built and operated. Most are completely computerized now, with the only mechanical elements left being the reels (on reel type machines, as opposed to video machines), the cash receiver, ticket printer, and the buttons and pull arm. Since none of them accept coins anymore, there is also no longer a coin hopper like the one you have in your machine, and we have in ours

 

The newer, computerized slots contain computers and software that can easily be reprogrammed by the slot host, usually by opening the machine, putting it in the right mode, and then making selections off the menu presented on the screen. Many slots now contain a number of different games in their programming, and a number of different settings for payout percentage. Many are also hooked to a central computer system, as in the case of progressive banks of machines.

 

So while it can be relatively easy for the casino operator to change the payouts on their machines, going back to the original question, Do they do this on a nightly basis or (in the case of ship board casinos) at a certain time over the length of every cruise.

 

The answer to that question is probably not a black and white "yes" or "no." It's a definite "maybe." Break down the facts:

 

1. Land based casinos are mostly regulated by gaming commissions, which set rules on payouts and how casinos can apply to change their machines. Do those casinos change their payouts nightly or on some predetermined scheme? No. They're not allowed to, and further more, they really don't need to (see below).

 

2. Ship based casinos are generally not regulated by any gaming commission. Therefore, they could take any action with regard to their machines at any time they choose. As a result, some less scrupulous ship board casino operators may, because it is now relatively easy to do so, change their payout whenever they decide to. But like their land-based counterparts, they really don't need to.

 

So DO they? My belief is that the large cruise companies do NOT do this. Just as with the land based casinos, they really have no reason to. The nature of casino gambling is that you will ALWAYS pay the casino their percentage, no matter what the game or the day or the time or the amount of the wager. If you gamble long enough, you will eventually give them most or all of your bankroll, nibbled away from you 2 or 3% or more on every bet you make. That's why a casino is such a cash cow, and why casinos make a lot of money for their owners.

 

Casino managers are given targets for revenue that they must meet. A good casino manager knows at least two things: How to setup the correct mix of games and payback percentages to make this target, day in and day out, and most importantly, how to work the mind of the gambler so that he or she keeps coming back and puts those pennies and dollars into the machine or down on the table.

 

They will NOT keep you coming back if you decide, or think you "know", that they are setting their machines to payout the best on the first night of the cruise, and then making them "tighter" after that. Consider what would happen then: Everyone who "knows" this would play only on the first night, take their resulting payouts, and never set foot in the casino again. What would happen to the casino? It would be a big money looser, and the casino manager would quickly be out of a job.

 

No, what the casino needs, and gets from their machines, is a random distribution of wins and losses over the entire length of your stay. The laws of probability and random distribution take care of this for them.

 

By setting their machines up correctly, some with higher payback and some with lower, they further insure that a "buzz" of people winning here and there will keep all the regular gamblers coming back, night after night, and keep the casual gambler strolling in every now and then to take a chance.

 

Once they've done that, the laws of probability and the nature of the casino's business (getting that 2 or 3 or more % of every bet) take over.

 

Human nature also plays into this. Our minds are setup to find patterns in everything we do. So when we get a few payouts, large or small, in a close period of time, we say the machine is "hot." We keep playing it, and of course the random nature of the machine eventually means that the losing spins nibble away at our money...so we say the machine then went "cold" after it paid out, and we move on to another machine and repeat the cycle.

 

The same thing occurs with the "hot on the first night" idea. We come in, flush with cash on the first night, and we get our normal, random distribution of payouts. Those all around us are doing the same. We all come back the next night, and now we're doing exactly what the casino wants. The effect of that 2 or 3 or more percent rake starts to work, and gradually we see our bankroll getting smaller and smaller. Our minds, eager to find a reason why, tell us that the machines were "hotter" on the first night - and the fact that there were more people playing, and thus there were more payouts that first night, supports our conclusion.

 

But nothing could be further from the truth, and all we're doing is exactly what the casino wants us to do.

[BEFdoc]

#1 myth of slot machines is that the payouts can be changed at will. I have seen this myth about hitting on the first night but also, hitting on the last night, at sea days, after dinner, whatever variable you want...

 

Fact is that under current technology the slot machine payouts can't be changed without changing the Random Number Generator on the machine which is an expensive chip. The payouts on the machines are ordered by the company and made in the factory to the casino specifications.

 

I realize that there is very little regulation of casinos on ships but I will give an example of how difficult it is to change the RNG to illustrate the point. It is illegal to change the RNG on slot machines in major jursidictions unless permission is given by the Casino Control Commission and they are present when it is changed...

 

They do not have to change the payouts, they always win....Changing the payouts would undermine the confidence that people have in casinos, they may lose but at least they didn't get cheated and that is paramount to the casinos in drawing in customers.

 

Information on the RNG is readily available on line....

 

Well yes and no. Working in the industry, machines can be chipped at any time and doesn't need to take place in the factory. Our casino just recently "rechipped" not that much of a bother and the casino would not have done it unless it was profitable.

 

Also, regulatory agencies are only for dry land casinos. There is not an international gaming agency that controls cruise chips sorry ships. lol

 

Lastly, it takes some effort to change chips and retest the system. The question is whether the cruise line has the manpower to do so mid cruise. That i cannot answer. But, I do seem to win more at the beginning of a cruise and less at the end. Probably just attitude, better mood beginning, bumming at the end.

 

Oh, I forgot to add this one. Slots that use a progressive payout are traditionally reset each and every cruise. So it begs the question, "why would you ever play a progressive slot since your chances or hitting the progressive payout are so small and the remainder of the payouts are much less than a regular slot?"

 

FYI

[VideoTech]

Well yes and no. Working in the industry, machines can be chipped at any time and doesn't need to take place in the factory. Our casino just recently "rechipped" not that much of a bother and the casino would not have done it unless it was profitable.

 

Also, regulatory agencies are only for dry land casinos. There is not an international gaming agency that controls cruise chips sorry ships. lol

 

Lastly, it takes some effort to change chips and retest the system. The question is whether the cruise line has the manpower to do so mid cruise. That i cannot answer. But, I do seem to win more at the beginning of a cruise and less at the end. Probably just attitude, better mood beginning, bumming at the end.

 

Oh, I forgot to add this one. Slots that use a progressive payout are traditionally reset each and every cruise. So it begs the question, "why would you ever play a progressive slot since your chances or hitting the progressive payout are so small and the remainder of the payouts are much less than a regular slot?"

 

FYI

 

And again, modern slot machines are no longer programmed by changing the chips. That is "old school" technology, and now the programming is changed via software.

 

But another point is one that hasn't been raised in this lengthy discussion: Assuming the slot machines in the casino were NOT linked to a central computer, you'd see casino slot technicians going around and opening all the machines at some point during the night when they have decided to "change the payouts." Since it's never been remarked on, and since the casinos stay busy late, late into the night on that first night of the cruise......Well, just another bit of evidence that they probably do not change the payouts after the first day of the cruise.

[mk695]

And again, modern slot machines are no longer programmed by changing the chips. That is "old school" technology, and now the programming is changed via software.

 

The problem with this is that the past 2 cruises I've been on, they have mostly the older quarter slots. Cruise ships are "old school". The newer video slots, star wars, indiana jones, etc. are few and far between on cruise ships. It seems most of the slots they purchased many years ago and are slowly replacing to the newer slots.

 

On my royal carribean and carnival I'd say 90% were the older slots. So, the "old school" logic prevails.

 

So, my original opinion still stands. NO, they don't change the slots odd mid-ship because the can't.

 

However, wishful thinking of posters here will soon prevail as the ships upgrade to the newer and modern "new school" video slots.

 

Until then, we live by random un-manipulated odds - they way it has been on cruise ships for the past 20 years!!!

[VideoTech]

The problem with this is that the past 2 cruises I've been on, they have mostly the older quarter slots. Cruise ships are "old school". The newer video slots, star wars, indiana jones, etc. are few and far between on cruise ships. It seems most of the slots they purchased many years ago and are slowly replacing to the newer slots.

 

On my royal carribean and carnival I'd say 90% were the older slots. So, the "old school" logic prevails.

 

So, my original opinion still stands. NO, they don't change the slots odd mid-ship because the can't.

 

However, wishful thinking of posters here will soon prevail as the ships upgrade to the newer and modern "new school" video slots.

 

Until then, we live by random un-manipulated odds - they way it has been on cruise ships for the past 20 years!!!

 

Interesting that RCCL and Carnival are still using the old machines. We've cruised only NCL since 2009 and every NCL ship we've been on has been about 80% newer video slots, and 20% old mechanicals. Even the old mechanicals have been converted to TITO; there are no coin operated machines left.

 

In any case, I agree with you that the casinos do not manipulate the payouts at any time during the cruise...there simply is no reason for them to do that.

[Pilot53]

I usually do not play slots, only VP. You can tell the overall odds by the payouts of each hand. On the ships (and on the Vegas strip) they are pretty bad. If you can find a 90% payback video poker game on a ship, that would be good. The odds of hitting a good hand do not change. What changes is the amount paid for that hand. If I see a royal flush for less than 4K, its time to leave the casino.

[VideoTech]

I usually do not play slots, only VP. You can tell the overall odds by the payouts of each hand. On the ships (and on the Vegas strip) they are pretty bad. If you can find a 90% payback video poker game on a ship, that would be good. The odds of hitting a good hand do not change. What changes is the amount paid for that hand. If I see a royal flush for less than 4K, its time to leave the casino.

 

Like you, I'm a Video Poker player, and have been for a long time. Unfortunately, good payback machines are getting very, very difficult to find (on land or sea), and I'm very close to giving up the game altogether.

 

When you can't even find 9/6 JOB on high limit machines anymore, it's really getting bad...and that's what I've been finding everywhere.

 

What's always irritated me is that even though we are considered "advantage" players just because we can tell the payout of the machine, the random nature of gambling isn't any different for us than it is for a penny slot player or a $100 slot player. And yet we're penalized with earning only half the points that regular slot players earn.

 

In any case, the last time I surveyed NCL's machines, they weren't as bad at 90%, but were mostly in the 92 to 93% range.

[okwriter]

I don't know anyone who works on a cruise ship or who manages a casino or who writes software for slot machines or...

 

All I know is that in three cruises, I've won more money (and seen more money won) on the last sea day than any other day/night during the cruise.

[cherylroslyn]

I don't know anyone who works on a cruise ship or who manages a casino or who writes software for slot machines or...

 

All I know is that in three cruises, I've won more money (and seen more money won) on the last sea day than any other day/night during the cruise.

Just back from NCL Gem.....won $1950.00 jackpot on Quick Hit on last night at about 2:00 in the morning.........

 

 

Definitely saw people winning the last night.......

[Rochesterboatingdotcom]

Just off two cruises - NCL Sky and NCL Dawn. On the 3 day Sky, hit a slot machine the first night for $1,500. Some more wins in the $200-$400 range the second night. The third night won nothing, lost most of my first nights winnings. The Dawn was an 11 day cruise, won nothing above $250, no night or day seemed any better then the rest. However, the casino hosts on the Dawn were really good, we got comped 2 dinners with wine, a bottle of wine in our room, and $300 OBC at the end of the cruise. So no big wins but some good comps made up for the low return on the machines. Also had free drinks on both cruises for the duration, which alone was probably worth over $1,000.

[cherylroslyn]

Just off two cruises - NCL Sky and NCL Dawn. On the 3 day Sky, hit a slot machine the first night for $1,500. Some more wins in the $200-$400 range the second night. The third night won nothing, lost most of my first nights winnings. The Dawn was an 11 day cruise, won nothing above $250, no night or day seemed any better then the rest. However, the casino hosts on the Dawn were really good, we got comped 2 dinners with wine, a bottle of wine in our room, and $300 OBC at the end of the cruise. So no big wins but some good comps made up for the low return on the machines. Also had free drinks on both cruises for the duration, which alone was probably worth over $1,000.

Wow that is dissappointing to hear about the Dawn. Ill be on her in three weeks for 10 nights....What will I do with myself????

 

 

Do you remember what slots they have.....Do they have Platimum Quick Hit? Or any other tower type machines?

[Rochesterboatingdotcom]

 

Do you remember what slots they have.....Do they have Platimum Quick Hit? Or any other tower type machines?

 

Yes, they have the Platinum QuickHits, although I never saw anyone hit any more than $300 (7 quickhits, I believe). The rest of the games are pretty mundane, a few of the new multi-game slots but mostly older games. Casino is pretty small. No cash out machines, you have to take tickets to the cage. Did not like the bartenders, one in particular kept asking my wife for her drink card and short-shotted her drinks. This was even after tipping him very well. Wait staff was awesome as was the cage staff and the casino hosts. We liked the casinos on the Sky, Epic and Jewel better than the Dawn, but the hospitality of the casino hosts was the best we have had on any NCL ship.

 

Good luck and enjoy your cruise!

[cherylroslyn]

Yes, they have the Platinum QuickHits, although I never saw anyone hit any more than $300 (7 quickhits, I believe). The rest of the games are pretty mundane, a few of the new multi-game slots but mostly older games. Casino is pretty small. No cash out machines, you have to take tickets to the cage. Did not like the bartenders, one in particular kept asking my wife for her drink card and short-shotted her drinks. This was even after tipping him very well. Wait staff was awesome as was the cage staff and the casino hosts. We liked the casinos on the Sky, Epic and Jewel better than the Dawn, but the hospitality of the casino hosts was the best we have had on any NCL ship.

 

Good luck and enjoy your cruise!

They didn't hit because they are saving it all for me!!!!!!!!!

 

 

No, seriously....

 

Sounds like some good people in that Casino with the exception of the bartender.......

 

I hit 8 quick hits on Gem a couple o fweeks ago....that closed the gap on a what would have been a pretty big loss..........ironically I won it at about 2:30 am on disembarkation day......they hand paid me then closed the casino.....it was nice because I only put $20.00 back in....ha ha ha...

 

 

 

Which slots do you favor?

[Rochesterboatingdotcom]

Which slots do you favor?

 

 

Any ones that we can win on! Don't like the old reel slots, they get boring real quick. Love trying anything new.

[cherylroslyn]

Any ones that we can win on! Don't like the old reel slots, they get boring real quick. Love trying anything new.

Me too... I love the new machines with all the bells and whistles and bonus games....i go crazy for them.

 

 

When I play a simple three wheel machine I feel like I'm gonna go into a coma........