Back from Hawaii with my scooter -tender issues

[sashas_mom]

I thought I would let you know the latest on Princess when you are in a tender port. I did a lot of research on these boards before going, wondering if I would be able to take my scooter on the tender. Mostly what I read was if you can walk and get on the tender they will let you bring your scooter. WRONG! They no longer allow scooters on a tender at least they didn't on the Golden to Hawaii 9/29/10 voyage. The ship had many wheelchairs available which they were willing to loan you (never saw this before to the degree I did this time). I had to sign a waiver, and the wheelchair was delivered to our cabin within a very short time. They let me keep it for the duration of the cruise even though I had my scooter. They felt it was better to be assured I would have it when we got into the tender ports than miss out. As I ran into others on scooters (and there were a lot on our voyage), I related the information to them since they were under the same impression that I was originally about taking our scooters on a tender. All in all,the fact that they were very well prepared with lots of wheelchairs to loan out, I was fine with the new policy.

[vickila]

I thought I would let you know the latest on Princess when you are in a tender port. I did a lot of research on these boards before going' date=' wondering if I would be able to take my scooter on the tender. Mostly what I read was if you can walk and get on the tender they will let you bring your scooter. WRONG! They no longer allow scooters on a tender at least they didn't on the Golden to Hawaii 9/29/10 voyage. The ship had many wheelchairs available which they were willing to loan you (never saw this before to the degree I did this time). I had to sign a waiver, and the wheelchair was delivered to our cabin within a very short time. They let me keep it for the duration of the cruise even though I had my scooter. They felt it was better to be assured I would have it when we got into the tender ports than miss out. As I ran into others on scooters (and there were a lot on our voyage), I related the information to them since they were under the same impression that I was originally about taking our scooters on a tender. All in all,the fact that they were very well prepared with lots of wheelchairs to loan out, I was fine with the new policy.[/quote']

 

How could you be fine with the new policy? There is no comparison in independence between a scooter and a wheelchair. If we don't fight for our rights -- they will continue to batten us down! Vicki

[sashas_mom]

You're right Vicki. I wasn't thinking. I'm fortunate to have my husband who pushed me around, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have been able to get off the ship. I don't know how we would fight this, but I do appreciate your thoughts about it.

[katisdale]

I have a slightly different view on tendering. I don't feel comfortable asking anyone to lift anything over 50 lbs. I have a Rascal scooter that is perfect for me. It is four wheeled has a chair that rises to make it easier for me to stand and probably weighs 150 lbs or more. I would stay on board rather than ask someone to lift that chair. This is obviously even more of a problem for someone who cannot walk at all and must transfer to a tender in a chair. I know this is not going to be a popular view but I don't think my desire to go ashore should endanger someone else's health. What I would like is for some smart engineer to design a mechanism to transfer a person and their chair safely from the ship to the tender so no crew member could be hurt and the person in the chair would be safe.

[JLC@SD]

I have a slightly different view on tendering. I don't feel comfortable asking anyone to lift anything over 50 lbs. I have a Rascal scooter that is perfect for me. It is four wheeled has a chair that rises to make it easier for me to stand and probably weighs 150 lbs or more. I would stay on board rather than ask someone to lift that chair. This is obviously even more of a problem for someone who cannot walk at all and must transfer to a tender in a chair. I know this is not going to be a popular view but I don't think my desire to go ashore should endanger someone else's health. What I would like is for some smart engineer to design a mechanism to transfer a person and their chair safely from the ship to the tender so no crew member could be hurt and the person in the chair would be safe.

 

I agree...I do not think the cruise line wants to endanger their crew, other passengers and the chair owner by transfering many 150 lb chairs from a ship to a pitching tender....or from a pitching tender to the shore.

 

As far as a smart engineer designing a mechanism........they can try to design one.....it just won't work with an unpredictable pitching / moving tender.

[vickila]

I agree...I do not think the cruise line wants to endanger their crew, other passengers and the chair owner by transfering many 150 lb chairs from a ship to a pitching tender....or from a pitching tender to the shore.

 

As far as a smart engineer designing a mechanism........they can try to design one.....it just won't work with an unpredictable pitching / moving tender.

 

If one can walk on to the tender, seat oneself and with a stable hand get off (old rules), why would one not be able to get onto the tender? Some of the wheelchairs weigh as much as a scooter (mine is 80 lbs. together) -- and can come apart. My feeling is, they assist getting onto the ship -- many times pushing the scooter (with little power) onto the ship -- where you would spend $$$ -- the least they can do is support (tip yes) getting ashore. And, one should have a powerful scooter both getting on and off the ship!!!! Of course, if conditions are wavy or unstable, one would use common sense. I do think PRINCESS is wrong and if we continue to be "subdued" we ALL will be very sorry. OR AVOID CRUISES WITH TENDERING!!!!!! Vicki

[celle]

If one can walk on to the tender, seat oneself and with a stable hand get off (old rules), why would one not be able to get onto the tender? Some of the wheelchairs weigh as much as a scooter (mine is 80 lbs. together) -- and can come apart. My feeling is, they assist getting onto the ship -- many times pushing the scooter (with little power) onto the ship -- where you would spend $$$ -- the least they can do is support (tip yes) getting ashore. And, one should have a powerful scooter both getting on and off the ship!!!! Of course, if conditions are wavy or unstable, one would use common sense. I do think PRINCESS is wrong and if we continue to be "subdued" we ALL will be very sorry. OR AVOID CRUISES WITH TENDERING!!!!!! Vicki

 

While it would be nice to think that people in need of a scooter can use tenders as freely as able-bodied people, I can see many safety issues associated with trying to get scooters or heavy wheelchairs on and off ships' tenders.

 

Getting on and off a large ship when it is safely berthed at a dock is quite a different matter from trying to do the same at sea, when the swell can be up to one meter. I have seen able-bodied people having to be almost lifted back on board the cruise ship when a light swell early in the day had increased to a bigger swell by afternoon - all the people still ashore need to be brought safely back on board. Calm seas at the start of tendering do not guarantee calm seas at the end of the day.

 

Now, if a person with an 80lb wheelchair or a scooter had been allowed to tender to shore, imagine the difficulty faced by the crew, of having to correctly judge the rise and fall of the swell and then lift that heavy equipment at just the right moment. One misjudgment, and you could have a crew person with a bad back injury or a damaged wheelchair/scooter.

 

Baggage handlers in many airports (on stable, non-moving land) are not permitted to lift cases weighing more than 50 lbs, because of safety issues. There's a greater risk of injury associated with handling similar weights during tendering.

 

While I realise it is very disappointing for someone in need of a scooter or heavy wheelchair to not be allowed to tender, surely the safety of the crew (and the passengers) must take priority. It's a matter of common sense, not of a disabled passenger being "subdued".

 

As an aside, I understand that many cruise lines share Princess's policy of not allowing scooters and heavy wheelchairs onto tenders.

[JLC@SD]

If one can walk on to the tender, seat oneself and with a stable hand get off (old rules), why would one not be able to get onto the tender? Some of the wheelchairs weigh as much as a scooter (mine is 80 lbs. together) -- and can come apart. My feeling is, they assist getting onto the ship -- many times pushing the scooter (with little power) onto the ship -- where you would spend $$$ -- the least they can do is support (tip yes) getting ashore. And, one should have a powerful scooter both getting on and off the ship!!!! Of course, if conditions are wavy or unstable, one would use common sense. I do think PRINCESS is wrong and if we continue to be "subdued" we ALL will be very sorry. OR AVOID CRUISES WITH TENDERING!!!!!! Vicki

 

..."if conditions are wavy or unstable".....that is a given with tendering, pitching up, down, out and back.

 

.....and it might be stable tendering now.......but it will be wavy and unstable (pitching) soon.

[vickila]

JLC@SD - obviously you are a Princess cruiseline repeater who never questions anything. Not a NY style. V.

[kitty9]

It has nothing to do with being a Princess, or any other line's, cruiser. I don't know about your disability, vickila, but from my experience, many who are using scooters or wheelchairs are just not stable enough to handle a bumpy tender boat. Believe me, I know, as I attempted to board a tender in not really rough seas. Just as I stepped on, the tender suddenly lurched up about two feet and I fell forward onto the tender, breaking a bone in my foot, and ruining the rest of my cruise.

 

It has nothing to do with rights, as EVERYONE on this board is very vocal on the rights of the disabled. But it has everything to do with safety and common sense. Why would anyone expect a crew member to lift any motorized device onto a tender that could become completely unstable within a few seconds? How would you feel if your scooter was the one that caused a crew member to injure himself, maybe even fatally? Would you sue the cruise line if they dropped your scooter, ruining it, while trying to get it onto a tender in rough waters? Bet you would.

 

Unfortunately, we disabled have learned that there are just some things we cannot do, no matter how much we complain and invoke the ADA. Sorry, but after being disabled since the age of 2, which is now a total of 55 years, I have fully realized that there are many things that are out of my reach. Does it upset me? Of course, as I would love to see the things in some tender ports. But I'm also realistic and know that my health and safety, as well as the safety of crew members comes before my bucket list.

[vickila]

It has nothing to do with being a Princess, or any other line's, cruiser. I don't know about your disability, vickila, but from my experience, many who are using scooters or wheelchairs are just not stable enough to handle a bumpy tender boat. Believe me, I know, as I attempted to board a tender in not really rough seas. Just as I stepped on, the tender suddenly lurched up about two feet and I fell forward onto the tender, breaking a bone in my foot, and ruining the rest of my cruise.

 

It has nothing to do with rights, as EVERYONE on this board is very vocal on the rights of the disabled. But it has everything to do with safety and common sense. Why would anyone expect a crew member to lift any motorized device onto a tender that could become completely unstable within a few seconds? How would you feel if your scooter was the one that caused a crew member to injure himself, maybe even fatally? Would you sue the cruise line if they dropped your scooter, ruining it, while trying to get it onto a tender in rough waters? Bet you would.

 

Unfortunately, we disabled have learned that there are just some things we cannot do, no matter how much we complain and invoke the ADA. Sorry, but after being disabled since the age of 2, which is now a total of 55 years, I have fully realized that there are many things that are out of my reach. Does it upset me? Of course, as I would love to see the things in some tender ports. But I'm also realistic and know that my health and safety, as well as the safety of crew members comes before my bucket list.

 

My point exactly -- should be an individual decision and not a cruiseline's decision to block it. Realistic, intelligent decision by person involved. Darcie, thanks for realistic approach in your opinion -- perhaps things will change. Vicki

[Aloha Me]

Unfortunately some individuals aren't that rational and push ahead with no regard for anyone's safety. These may be the people the cruise lines are speaking for.

[celle]

My point exactly -- should be an individual decision and not a cruiseline's decision to block it. Realistic, intelligent decision by person involved. Darcie, thanks for realistic approach in your opinion -- perhaps things will change. Vicki

 

No. Things will not change. The cruise line has a duty to protect both its employees and its passengers.

 

It is the cruise line's decision to make, not the passenger's. There is no such thing possible as "realistic, intelligent decision by the person involved."

 

What person do you mean? You, the passenger -who will not have all the information about expected weather conditions, but who are wanting to get ashore, no matter what the potential danger?

 

Or do you mean the the crew on duty at the tender station? They, also, may not have all the information about expected sea/ weather conditions, and may be influenced by a desire to be accommodating towards a passenger's wishes. You did suggest tipping (or bribing) didn't you?

 

No, the decision is made at a higher level, from company policy down to the Captain's judgment on the day (he can even decide against allowing tendering for able-bodied people, if sea conditions are likely to become too rough).

 

People (me included) have tried to explain to you why tendering with scooter or a wheelchair is unlikely to be allowed. You don't want to accept that.

 

Have you actually done any tendering and seen how the tender boat rises and falls, sometimes quite alarmingly?

[JLC@SD]

.......case in point.....and this is very typical of tendering boarding......

 

[JLC@SD]

It is the cruise line's decision to make, not the passenger's. There is no such thing possible as "realistic, intelligent decision by the person involved."

 

.........the "reasonable, intelligent, decesion made by the person involved"........that the cruise line usually hears is...........I paid for this trip and I am going ashore no matter what.......;)

[Umbarger]

My point exactly -- should be an individual decision and not a cruiseline's decision to block it. Realistic, intelligent decision by person involved. Vicki

 

My mom uses a 45 pound scooter. We never even try to take the scooter on tenders. We do not feel comfortable making a crew member try to carry a scooter on a tender.

 

Crew members are people not pack mules.

[sredheada]

My point exactly -- should be an individual decision and not a cruise line's decision to block it. Realistic, intelligent decision by person involved. Vicki

 

Realistic, intelligent people want to sail into hurricanes too.......Cruiselines have to make the decision to block it. They do not make these decisions to ruin your cruise or make your life miserable. They make these decision because they do not want to risk discomfort, injury or even death to passengers and crew.

 

If you did make the individual decision to make them carry on your scooter/wheelchair and they dropped it into the sea or you broke your leg trying to get on the tender. I can guarantee your realistic, intelligent self would sue them.

 

I can't remember if it was on a Carnival or Princess cruise but a passenger in the dining room was choking on a piece of steak during dinner. The passenger was panicking as it was blocking their airway and they couldn't breath. This persons family didn't know what to do and were panicking also, yelling for help. A fast acting waiter did the Heimlich maneuver on the person, the piece of steak came flying out and the persons life was saved. In the process of the maneuver the person was injured by the crew member by mistake. A broken rib or something. You would think this person and his family would praise the waiter with great thanks and flowers etc. for saving this persons life. Nope........... they sued the waiter/cruise line for the injuries. That's gratitude for you.

[kyriecat]

.......case in point.....and this is very typical of tendering boarding......

 

That video isn't too bad. I've seen tenders with alot more up/down motion. A couple years ago my mom and I were on an RC cruise together. We were supposed to take a tender over to their private island, Coco Cay. We were ready to get on the next tender when we got pulled aside. The crew informed us that wheelchair passengers were not being allowed off the ship because seas/weather were expected to get rough later in the day. We were very disappointed with the decision but could understand. We stayed onboard and had a ship day. My mom didn't really care about the beach but she did want to see a little of the island.

 

A few hours later we watched the tenders return to the ship from our balcony, which overlooked the tender platform. We were glad that we didn't get off the ship after seeing that! The tender was bobbing at least 6 feet due to the waves. The crew couldn't get it aligned properly with the tender platform so the captain rotated the ship to help block the waves. Even after that the tender was still bobbing 3-4 feet. It took them about 45 minutes to get the ship rotated and the tender positioned to allow passengers to get back to the ship. The poor people on the tender were bobbing around while this was going on. We saw several people get sea sick.

 

At least one wheelchair passenger got off the ship before they quit allowing it. We watched 3 crew members carry the man back onboard. He was a larger man so one or two people could not carry him. It was scary to watch! The platform isn't that wide so the two crewmembers carrying the man's upper-body were struggling not to knock each other into the sea. The crewmember carrying his feet had to back onto the platform so he couldn't really see where he was going. Fortunately a couple other crewmembers held him to provide support. The crew wasn't able to get him transferred in one pass so his feet were supported by the crewmember on the platform while his upper-body was still with the crewmembers on the tender while they waited on a swell. Basically, the man was stretched between the tender and the platform while the crew waited on the swell to pass so they could get the rest of him across.

 

There was no way they could manuever him in his wheelchair safely from the tender to the platform because of the rocking and swells. I applaud the crew for being able to get the man back onboard relatively safely. My mom was extremely grateful that she hadn't got off the ship after watching that. She said that she would rather stay on the island and get picked up later than experience being carried across like that. She would have been terrified.

[kitty9]

You can make a personal decision as to whether to take a tender using a scooter or wheelchair, and you may think it's an informed decision, but you never know. The seas are a nasty mother, and you could be happy on your tour only to come back and find that the seas are far too rough to allow you to get back to the ship. I've personally seen that happen. A family had taken their dad on the tender early in the morning, when the seas were like glass, but a storm blew in and the cruise line made the decision that it was too dangerous for the man and his wheelchair to get on the tender. They had to meet the ship at the next port. So in reality, there is no realistic or intelligent decision when it comes to ships and the sea. The sea always wins out.

[Umbarger]

.......case in point.....and this is very typical of tendering boarding......

 

 

Typical perhaps, however, I have been on much, much, worse than this.

[Ians Grandma]

If the cruise line tells you up front that you can't get off in tender ports if you can't walk, okay, but if they advertise that they have a wheelchair lift for tender ports and then don't use it that is irritating. We have experienced that many times even when the seas were flat calm. The reasons given were it takes two hours to set up, there is a conflict with customs or the equipment is broken. Out of over 100 days at sea my son has only been able to use it 3 times. Sometimes the issues were on the port side, steps, etc. It's all about expectations really. We know now that it usually will not work for one reason or another, so we don't feel such a sense of disappointment. That said, they really should maintain the equipment just as they do for the regular access and they should use it as often as possible. Just think what would happen if you were on a long cruise and they sent a note to all cabins that the steps to tender were broken and that all passengers would have to stay onboard at every tender port even in perfect conditions! It wouldn't be pretty.

[DesrtDrmr]

Another problem we've found with tendering is that it is sometimes easier to get on the tender at the ship, than to get off the tender in the port. I took manual wheelchair on tender, no problem. When we got to the dock, there was only a ladder with metal rungs (three or four) going up from the tender. The guys helped my husband get the chair up there, but it was very difficult for me to climb that ladder..........almost impossible, especially with the swell. That was the last time I tried to tender since I've not been able to "do" stairs, etc. I appreciated all the help we got, but it was not safe for me, probably the crew, and made the rest of the passengers on the tender wait until I got up. :(