Etymology of the word "Grill" ??

[bazzaw]

--- as used by Cunard. It sounds a bit "weird" to me, but I am sure it must have a history. Does anybody know??

 

Barry

[capnpugwash]

--- as used by Cunard. It sounds a bit "weird" to me, but I am sure it must have a history. Does anybody know??

 

Barry

 

It is an alternative name for a restaurant as used in the Savoy Grill and the Grill at The Dorchester.

[bazzaw]

Hmm - could be - but I was thinking more of "Howie's Bar and Grill"

 

Any other thoughts please?

 

Barry

[balf]

I think it is one of these terms invented by some smart a...se marketing people to try to imply that their establishment is superior to other restaurants. We used to have guys who emptied our bins who were called binmen, now of course they are refuse opperatives.

 

I don't believe that all the food in "The Grills" is grilled, and why use that term anyway when the Americans have another word altogether for the proccess of cooking using heat from above the food.

 

Let's hear it for the Queens Broil.

 

David.

[pnhmrk]

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu says that, in this context, grill and grillroom are synonymous. A grillroom is a restaurant where food is cooked on a grill. :)

[carlmm]

 

Cunard has used the term Grill for a long time, eg. the Verandah Grill on the original Queen Mary. Being the best restaurant on board it was available only for first class passengers, for a surcharge and often with reservations weeks before.

 

For photos and history see http://www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/retain1.html

 

Later on Cunard continued to call the best restaurant "Grill" but made it the standard restaurant for first class passengers.

 

During the time of the Queen Elizabeth 2 it was the aim to rival any Michelin starred restaurant at land.

 

As capnpugwash pointed out the term grill is used for a number of fine restaurants including the the Savoy Grill, about which the owners inform

"Savoy Grill is without doubt one of London’s legendary restaurants. Frequented by celebrated diners such as Sir Winston Churchill, Oscar Wilde, Frank Sinatra and HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, the original seating plan has been brought back for the reopening. Designer, Russell Sage, took inspiration from the restaurant’s heyday and original 1920`s Art Deco features have been restored. Chef Patron Stuart Gillies, of Gordon Ramsay Holdings, and Head Chef Andy Cook, oversee a menu that returns to the classic Escoffier-inspired grill rooms of old. Dishes include charcoal grilled Chateaubriand with pommes soufflés, king crab and prawn cocktail, lime and chocolate soufflé and iced Peach Melba."

 

There you may have found the key for Cunard using the term:

"the classic Escoffier-inspired grill rooms of old".

[balf]

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu grillroom is a restaurant where food is cooked on a grill. :)

 

Sometimes.

 

David.

[Cruachan]

I think it is one of these terms invented by some smart a...se marketing people to try to imply that their establishment is superior to other restaurants.

 

Well, marketing people or not, the usage appears to have a respectably long history. The Oxford English Dictionary (2nd Edition, 1989) cites examples from as far back as 1883, although it seems that the term was originally "grill-room" which referred to a specific room in a restaurant in which food was grilled. Later it came to be used as a term for the restaurant itself.

 

J

[cinta]

Captainpugwash is correct

[Q-step]

Cinta is correct.

[bazzaw]

Interesting.

 

I find the study of the evolution of the English language to be fascinating. Ever evolving and taking directions from all kinds of things and places, there are almost no rules - and this instance of the use of a word that seems to now have several accepted meanings - ie a BBQ, a lower class type of establishment (Bar and grill) and a very top class dining establishment is just one example. :)

 

I have read that although the language is "English", originating from England - it now takes most of it's direction from the US, especially so since the advent of the Internet - and is now a truly International language, as opposed to a regional language like Hungarian which is at the extreme opposite end of that concept.

 

 

Barry

[The Real PM]

Interesting.

 

I find the study of the evolution of the English language to be fascinating. Ever evolving and taking directions from all kinds of things and places, there are almost no rules - and this instance of the use of a word that seems to now have several accepted meanings - ie a BBQ, a lower class type of establishment (Bar and grill) and a very top class dining establishment is just one example. :)

 

I have read that although the language is "English", originating from England - it now takes most of it's direction from the US, especially so since the advent of the Internet - and is now a truly International language, as opposed to a regional language like Hungarian which is at the extreme opposite end of that concept.

 

Barry

 

Don't you think that the language coming from the US has as much to do with the numerous movies and televison programs that are exported from America. I think that is why there are so many of the same catch phrases shared in English speaking countries, much to the chagrin of the English, I might add.

[bazzaw]

Don't you think that the language coming from the US has as much to do with the numerous movies and televison programs that are exported from America.

 

yes - that too.

 

 

Barry

[bepsf]

Cunard has used the term Grill for a long time, eg. the Verandah Grill on the original Queen Mary. Being the best restaurant on board it was available only for first class passengers, for a surcharge and often with reservations weeks before.

 

For photos and history see http://www.sterling.rmplc.co.uk/visions/retain1.html

 

Later on Cunard continued to call the best restaurant "Grill" but made it the standard restaurant for first class passengers.

 

During the time of the Queen Elizabeth 2 it was the aim to rival any Michelin starred restaurant at land.

 

As capnpugwash pointed out the term grill is used for a number of fine restaurants including the the Savoy Grill, about which the owners inform

"Savoy Grill is without doubt one of London’s legendary restaurants. Frequented by celebrated diners such as Sir Winston Churchill, Oscar Wilde, Frank Sinatra and HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, the original seating plan has been brought back for the reopening. Designer, Russell Sage, took inspiration from the restaurant’s heyday and original 1920`s Art Deco features have been restored. Chef Patron Stuart Gillies, of Gordon Ramsay Holdings, and Head Chef Andy Cook, oversee a menu that returns to the classic Escoffier-inspired grill rooms of old. Dishes include charcoal grilled Chateaubriand with pommes soufflés, king crab and prawn cocktail, lime and chocolate soufflé and iced Peach Melba."

 

There you may have found the key for Cunard using the term:

"the classic Escoffier-inspired grill rooms of old".

 

If I recall correctly, the first ship to feature a Grillroom was the Imperator of the Hamburg-America Line (1913) who boasted Escoffier as their Executive Chef for their Ritz-Carlton restaurants aboard Imperator and Vaterland. (In fact, the Grillroom on Imperator was removed after the first season to reduce weight since the ship was top-heavy)

It was the Cafe Grill aboard Normandie (1935) which served as both an exclusive a-la-carte restaurant/nightclub overlooking the stern which was the primary inspiration in both concept, function and location for the Verandah Grills of the original Cunard Queens - The Verandah Grill aboard Queen Mary was basically an afterthought, added during construction to compete with the French Line.

Prior to that, Cunard felt that an extra tariff grillroom was objectionable as being "another class above First Class". Those that were originally planned for Mauretania and Lusitania were never built and the one aboard Aquitania - which was simply a room off the main dining room and not extra charge - was unpopular and seldom-used - therefore it was removed in the winter of 1936-7 to allow for room in Tourist Class. In fact, the a-la-carte restaurants which were in place aboard Olympic and Majestic during White Star ownership had been dismantled and removed from those ships after the fleet had been merged into Cunard in 1934.

[garigoun]

Interesting

 

I have read that although the language is "English", originating from England - it now takes most of it's direction from the US, especially so since the advent of the Internet - and is now a truly International language, as opposed to a regional language like Hungarian which is at the extreme opposite end of that concept.

Barry[/quote

 

Actually, English in its manifold guises is the school bully of the linguistic world. It is truly a global language. My favourite definition which I've posted before but which, I think bears repetition is, to paraphrase:-

 

"English does not borrow from other languages, it lures them down dark alleys, hits them over the head and relieves them of any bits of grammar and/or vocabulary they have about them."

Gari

[pepperrn]

Hi bepsf

 

Thanks for your great and very informative post, please forgive me adding a couple of notes of my own, not wishing to cause offence.

If I recall correctly, the first ship to feature a Grillroom was the Imperator of the Hamburg-America Line (1913)

I think the Amerika of 1905 (?), had the first extra charge Ritz-Carlton Restaurant or Grill Room. The kitchen of which was doubled in size after the first few voyages as the restaurant was so popular.

Those that were originally planned for Mauretania and Lusitania were never built and the one aboard Aquitania - which was simply a room off the main dining room and not extra charge - was unpopular and seldom-used - therefore it was removed in the winter of 1936-7 to allow for room in Tourist Class

As it was unpopular I am still amazed it lasted from 1914 to 1936.

Indeed as Aquitania's replacement Queen Elizabeth's maiden voyage was planned for 1940 it was quite late in her career when these major changes were carried out. A little like the changes made to Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth in their final years very shortly before QE2 entered service.

 

Very best wishes and many thanks.

[bepsf]

Hi bepsf

 

Thanks for your great and very informative post, please forgive me adding a couple of notes of my own, not wishing to cause offence.

[/size][/font] I think the Amerika of 1905 (?), had the first extra charge Ritz-Carlton Restaurant or Grill Room. The kitchen of which was doubled in size after the first few voyages as the restaurant was so popular.

As it was unpopular I am still amazed it lasted from 1914 to 1936.

Indeed as Aquitania's replacement Queen Elizabeth's maiden voyage was planned for 1940 it was quite late in her career when these major changes were carried out. A little like the changes made to Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth in their final years very shortly before QE2 entered service.

 

Very best wishes and many thanks.

 

Not at all!

Yes, you're correct that Amerika had the first shipboard a-la-carte restaurant - the Ritz-Carlton restaurant - but I'm uncertain whether it was considered a "Grillroom", as Imperator was initially configured with both a Ritz-Carlton and a Grillroom. (Perhaps back then, the Grillroom was the more casual space - along the lines of what we might consider "The Lido Restaurant"?)

My understanding of the Aquitainia Grillroom is that it was a minor space off the Main Dining Room - it was dis-used for so many years that it was simply closed off and ignored until she was reconfigured/repaired after the running aground in 1935 and the line needed more Tourist Class space for "Booze Cruises".

Cheers!

[Ryancoke]

Where I'm from **** Grill usually means upscale but when **** Bar 'n Grill is used the emphasis is on the barn.

[pnhmrk]

My understanding of the Aquitainia Grillroom is that it was a minor space off the Main Dining Room - it was dis-used for so many years that it was simply closed off and ignored

 

As was the Grill Room on the QE2 at one point. Before the Queens Grill was opened the Princess Grill (then simply the Grill Room) was just an annex off the Columbia Restaurant. At one time the spaces were combined but the space from the Grill Room wasn't used much.

[cinta]

Cinta is correct.

 

PMSL!

 

Sharon

[cinta]

Interesting

 

I have read that although the language is "English", originating from England - it now takes most of it's direction from the US, especially so since the advent of the Internet - and is now a truly International language, as opposed to a regional language like Hungarian which is at the extreme opposite end of that concept.

Barry[/quote

 

Actually, English in its manifold guises is the school bully of the linguistic world. It is truly a global language. My favourite definition which I've posted before but which, I think bears repetition is, to paraphrase:-

 

"English does not borrow from other languages, it lures them down dark alleys, hits them over the head and relieves them of any bits of grammar and/or vocabulary they have about them."

Gari

 

Gari is correct