Is tipping optional??

[brfan]

Jadzhea, you SHOULD bring up with RC that you were sold the cruise with no disclosure of the tipping requirement, if that is the case. That's a legitimate complaint. If you make an issue of tipping, RC will probably tell you how it's optional and if you aren't happy with the service you can have it removed - I'm sure ALL cruise lines are experts at justifying the autotips to unhappy pax, and like it or not, autotips are a reality of cruising. Where you were not treated properly is that you were sold a cruise but not properly informed about the total cost. Enough complaints ought to put a stop to that type of business practice.

 

There is nothing to remove or adjust as Royal Caribbean does not do autotipping. You must fill in a form to have it added to your S&S card, it is not done automatically. If their version of anytime dining is chosen then tips must be prepaid with the final payment.

[njhorseman]

I have to say that until I got into cruising and CC I couldn't imagine (other than waitresses) being expected to directly pay the salary of a vendor's employees and being told that if I didn't pay their salary they or their families would go hungry....I was under the naive impression that a vendor paid its employees directly, and anything additional was discretionary. NO WAY is the DSC discretionary, let's be honest about that!

 

No vendor of goods or services actual pays for their employees' salaries. The ultimate consumer of the goods or services pays...the salary is built into the price the consumer pays for those goods or services. If you buy an automobile do you think the manufacturer has paid their employees' salaries? Do you think the car dealer has paid their employees? Not for one minute. You've paid them as part of the price of the car your purchased.

 

If a cruise line has a "tips included" policy, you've paid for it in the form of a higher cruise fare. As noted by another poster, Azamara's fares went up substantially when tipping was eliminated. They also included other amenities in their new fare structure but a substantial percentage of the increase was attributable to the tips being folded into the base fare.

[erdoran]

I have to say that until I got into cruising and CC I couldn't imagine (other than waitresses) being expected to directly pay the salary of a vendor's employees and being told that if I didn't pay their salary they or their families would go hungry....I was under the naive impression that a vendor paid its employees directly, and anything additional was discretionary. NO WAY is the DSC discretionary, let's be honest about that!

 

No vendor of goods or services actual pays for their employees' salaries. The ultimate consumer of the goods or services pays...the salary is built into the price the consumer pays for those goods or services. If you buy an automobile do you think the manufacturer has paid their employees' salaries? Do you think the car dealer has paid their employees? Not for one minute. You've paid them as part of the price of the car your purchased

 

Note the use of the word "directly" in my original quote. Of course customers pay every business' salaries, electric bills, facilities, operating costs, etc, etc by purchasing products and services. It isn't discretionary and isn't advertised/sold as discretionary. The price offered to you when you are deciding whether or not to buy is the price you pay, unless it's a negotiable transaction like a car purchase, in which case you might negotiate down the price. When I buy a plane ticket there is no discretionary service charge for the steward(ess), baggage handlers who load/unload the plane, the guy who cleans the plane, the guy who pumps out the toilets, the dishwasher, the staff who stock the food, the kitchen staff who prepare the dinners, etc, etc. When my plane ticket hits my credit card, the price I signed for is what I'm billed. If I order a drink or a meal onboard the flight, the price in the airline magazine is the price I'm charged, no autotip.

 

When I rent a car and sign the contract for $/day and $/mile (and decline CDW and the other junk fees) there is no service charge added to my bill to pay the counter staff, car cleaner outers, mechanics, carwash attendants, etc. I might CHOOSE to tip the shuttle bus driver directly for helping with my luggage, but for a one-week car rental for a family of four, there is no surprise $300+ DSC added to the cost of the rental. The shuttle driver earns at least minimum wage (whether that's a living wage is debatable, but it isn't $50/month).

 

I pay my DSC and I've "got with the program" since becoming active here....but that doesn't mean I agree with the cruise lines stiffing their employees, and new cruisers being surprised with multi hundred dollar additional charges that weren't disclosed at booking time.

 

The "workaround" for objecting to a DSC because you consider it a tip is to realize that it ISN'T A TIP. It is the salary of cruise ship staff. It is the result of marketing decisions made by many different cruise lines, BECAUSE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. This enables them to lowball cruise fares so people think "I can afford this!" and then bam! increase the final bill by hundreds of dollars because "you will want to show your appreciation to our hard working staff by tipping them appropriately". Well, gee--I want to show my appreciation to my hard-working administrative assistant, my boss, the guys who shovel snow at my worksite, my colleagues, my mailman, the guy at Staples who spent a lot of time helping me get something--but I'm not EXPECTED TO pay them their salary directly.

 

Off my soapbox!

[mr jamms]

Can someone tell me what the auto tip includes and who you'd expect to tip separately?

 

I'm from New Zealand where tipping is very very rare, so I have a hard time when travelling understanding who to tip and when. I understand it's the done thing but I still get embarrassed doing it, it feels like a bribe.

 

So try to understand that I'm asking for very basic info on who to tip. Without the cultural baggage it makes no sense to an outsider why you tip a server in a restaurant but not a shopkeeper.

 

Someone mentioned on a cruise, roomservice waiters are tipped separate, and that a charge is added automatically when you order a drink. That's the kind of thing I want to know, Is there anyone else you would tip on a cruise?

[Gonzo70]

I don't think that some people are realizing that the cruise line's tipping format actually is favorable to the passengers (albeit an unfamiliar concept for some). If the cruise line were to opt to give the crew that is tipped a reasonable salary instead of having a token salary that is heavily subsidized by tips, they would have to raise the price of the cruise. When that occurs, the price increase becomes subject to commissions, administrative costs and possibly additional taxes. Therefore instead of us tipping $12 or so per/person per day, our cruise fare would go up $16 per/person per day (give or take) in order for the crew to earn their salary. Another advantage to the passengers is in the unlikely event where one receives below expected level of service, and the service does not improve after a supervisor is made aware of the issue, one would be justified tipping that individual less (or no tip at all). If the crew received a full salary then this is not possible.

 

People not used to the current system should view the tip as more of a surcharge than a tip - it is basically a surcharge for receiving adequate, expected service. If any crew member goes above and beyond the call of duty and makes your cruise particularly special, then you can feel free to add a tip to this service charge for any amount you deem to be appropriate (i.e. the type of tip that people from some countries are more familiar with).

[Liz54]

I agree with the above. Also, when I pay auto tips they feel like a tiny amount - $10.50 per day on Princess, -compared to the high number of people who seem to spend the day making my life about perfect. I factor those basic auto tips into the cost of my cruise.

 

I am then happy to tip $20-50 to our dinner servers and cabin steward. But that extra is based entirely on weather the service was great.

 

When I sailed RCI without the auto tips it was confusing and expensive tipping people individually.

[ithaca gal]

I agree with the above. Also, when I pay auto tips they feel like a tiny amount - $10.50 per day on Princess, -compared to the high number of people who seem to spend the day making my life about perfect. I factor those basic auto tips into the cost of my cruise.

 

I am then happy to tip $20-50 to our dinner servers and cabin steward. But that extra is based entirely on weather the service was great.

 

When I sailed RCI without the auto tips it was confusing and expensive tipping people individually.

 

I am with you, Liz54 -- $11.00 a day on HAL to make sure my vacation is great! I am so happy to tip $20-50 to our dinner servers and cabin stewards! That $11.00 covers a lot of people I never see -- but still have worked hard to make me happy.

 

The day that I can let all these people work to make me happy and I can give (tip, whatever you want to call it) them less than they deserve --- well, it IS time for me to stop cruising and just sit in my backyard and fetch my own drinks, clean up my own messes and quit bitching!

 

In the meantime, I will count my blessings that I get to be a passenger on a cruise ship instead of working on one (especially with some of the passengers I would have to deal with!).

[UKBayern]

People not used to the current system should view the tip as more of a surcharge than a tip - it is basically a surcharge for receiving adequate, expected service.

 

Many European cruiselines like Costa and MSC call it a "service surcharge" rather than a tip. For Europeans that seems to be a much more favourable word, because nobody on these cruiselines seems to complain about this charge. If the American(ised) cruiselines would just call it that instead of a "tip" most Europeans do not object.

[jadzhea]

Jadzhea, don't feel that you owe any explanation to these intrusive questions. It is your holiday, you have worked hard to pay for it. Do whatever you want. The tipping guidelines are there for your information as to what the majority of people will pay (the majority on US lines being US citizens). They are not mandatory and you can adjust them up or down as YOU see fit. No one else can tell you how much or little to tip, it is entirely up to you. Enjoy your cruise.

 

Hi Staygulf

 

Thanks for your comment and support, I didnt realise asking a question would cause such hostility and people telling me I had atrracted Bad Karma!!

 

I will enjoy my cruise regardless, I will be with my family and thats all I need;)

[CruisinChris412]

If you don't want to tip, don't tip.

 

If tipping is causing you frustrations, make a complaint.

[tenpin]

Cruise lines need to even up the playing field and call it what it is...a service charge, end of story.

 

I cruise with Costa.....no tipping is expected or suggested.

 

However they have a mandatory service charge that cannot be altered or removed and it is payable at the end of the cruise via the on board account.

 

There is also another big difference with Costa...something that goes down extremely well with families....

 

 

 

The 15% added to drinks is also called a service charge too.

 

You got that right as have Costa, off on our next one tomorrow and know tips are included/fixed and we don't have to tip again. even with our X1 package.

And for what it's worth we think Costa beats the American lines hands down when it comes to good service.

 

RC and Princess are over-priced for what you get.

[insidecabin]

A lot of UK TAs do include the tips in the price they quote.

 

I never ever pre pay tips, I tip who I want, when I want and how much I want.

 

If RCCL said I must tip the amount they say, then I would stop cruising with them.

 

 

They would probably be illegal UK holiday contracts if they had hidden compulsory charges.

[room010]

This whole thread is a perfect illustration of how the Tipping Culture differs between the US and Europe/Down Under. Americans assume they will have to tip during their cruise and budget accordingly because service staff rely on tips to top up their embarrassingly low official wages. Brits don't expect to tip because they assume staff are paid a sustainable wage. Therefore, tips are a "reward" for good service, not an expectation. Australia is also a "non tipping" culture except for rewarding good service. Long may it last.

[erdoran]

I don't think that some people are realizing that the cruise line's tipping format actually is favorable to the passengers (albeit an unfamiliar concept for some). If the cruise line were to opt to give the crew that is tipped a reasonable salary instead of having a token salary that is heavily subsidized by tips, they would have to raise the price of the cruise. When that occurs, the price increase becomes subject to commissions, administrative costs and possibly additional taxes. Therefore instead of us tipping $12 or so per/person per day, our cruise fare would go up $16 per/person per day (give or take) in order for the crew to earn their salary. Another advantage to the passengers is in the unlikely event where one receives below expected level of service, and the service does not improve after a supervisor is made aware of the issue, one would be justified tipping that individual less (or no tip at all). If the crew received a full salary then this is not possible.

 

Not possible with DSC. If you get poor service from one and reduce/remove some portion of DSC, EVERYONE is punished, thus discouraging removal because it is unfair to everyone who gave good service.

 

People not used to the current system should view the tip as more of a surcharge than a tip - it is basically a surcharge for receiving adequate, expected service. If any crew member goes above and beyond the call of duty and makes your cruise particularly special, then you can feel free to add a tip to this service charge for any amount you deem to be appropriate (i.e. the type of tip that people from some countries are more familiar with).

 

I was with you until this statement. I have a problem with paying extra to get what I paid for - adequate, expected service.

 

I have so many times proposed a very decent solution - present the DSC as a separate line item AT THE TIME OF BOOKING, in the same font/size as the other itemized charges, such as tax, which are also presented as line items. That makes it as commissionable as the tax is - NON-COMMISSIONABLE! Handle the transaction the way it is now, just make sure it is clearly shown in the price listing, the way taxes are now. The only thing wrong with this proposal is that the cruise lines really don't want pax to see this additional charge because it messes up the strategy of pricing the cruise artificially low, then stiffing their employees and guilt-tripping the customers into paying them directly.

 

I love cruising, pay the DSC (and tip extra where warranted) and put up with this business practice because there is no choice, but I'll speak up against it whenever I can because it is WRONG to both the staff and the pax.

[smeyer418]

Can someone tell me what the auto tip includes and who you'd expect to tip separately?

 

I'm from New Zealand where tipping is very very rare, so I have a hard time when travelling understanding who to tip and when. I understand it's the done thing but I still get embarrassed doing it, it feels like a bribe.

 

So try to understand that I'm asking for very basic info on who to tip. Without the cultural baggage it makes no sense to an outsider why you tip a server in a restaurant but not a shopkeeper.

 

Someone mentioned on a cruise, roomservice waiters are tipped separate, and that a charge is added automatically when you order a drink. That's the kind of thing I want to know, Is there anyone else you would tip on a cruise?

 

 

The auto-tip/DSC generally includes the wait staff(dining room-waiters, asst, and head waiters/maitre D's) and the room cleaning staff(room stewards and assts). On some cruise lines the room service(food) delivery staff are included(Princess and Cunard) sometimes these are also your room cleaning staff. The auto-tip on most cruise lines includes the traditionally tipped out staff-the laundry room, the supply room, the asst housekeeper- the line chefs and dishwashers. The buffet staff is generally included in the auto-tip but generally these are also the wait staff for the dining room on rotation.

Not included are kids crew, butlers, concierges, bar staff, hairdressers and massage staff.

There are lines that all inclusive and include basic tips...yes its your money but that doesn't make intentional under tipping right. If you don't like this you are free to take those that include it, write a letter or take any action you deem appropriate but just as some people complain when people don't follow the dressing convention it makes you a dolt when you refuse to follow it because its not your way. I don't particularly like tipping. I never know whether I am under or over tipping but its still is the custom on most cruise lines and should be followed. There is no penalty for not doing so...its only between you and your conscious anyway. The difference between this and not paying your income taxes is that non payment of income taxes is criminal.

[njhorseman]

Note the use of the word "directly" in my original quote. Of course customers pay every business' salaries, electric bills, facilities, operating costs, etc, etc by purchasing products and services. It isn't discretionary and isn't advertised/sold as discretionary. The price offered to you when you are deciding whether or not to buy is the price you pay, unless it's a negotiable transaction like a car purchase, in which case you might negotiate down the price. When I buy a plane ticket there is no discretionary service charge for the steward(ess), baggage handlers who load/unload the plane, the guy who cleans the plane, the guy who pumps out the toilets, the dishwasher, the staff who stock the food, the kitchen staff who prepare the dinners, etc, etc. When my plane ticket hits my credit card, the price I signed for is what I'm billed. If I order a drink or a meal onboard the flight, the price in the airline magazine is the price I'm charged, no autotip.

 

When I rent a car and sign the contract for $/day and $/mile (and decline CDW and the other junk fees) there is no service charge added to my bill to pay the counter staff, car cleaner outers, mechanics, carwash attendants, etc. I might CHOOSE to tip the shuttle bus driver directly for helping with my luggage, but for a one-week car rental for a family of four, there is no surprise $300+ DSC added to the cost of the rental. The shuttle driver earns at least minimum wage (whether that's a living wage is debatable, but it isn't $50/month).

 

I pay my DSC and I've "got with the program" since becoming active here....but that doesn't mean I agree with the cruise lines stiffing their employees, and new cruisers being surprised with multi hundred dollar additional charges that weren't disclosed at booking time.

 

The "workaround" for objecting to a DSC because you consider it a tip is to realize that it ISN'T A TIP. It is the salary of cruise ship staff. It is the result of marketing decisions made by many different cruise lines, BECAUSE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. This enables them to lowball cruise fares so people think "I can afford this!" and then bam! increase the final bill by hundreds of dollars because "you will want to show your appreciation to our hard working staff by tipping them appropriately". Well, gee--I want to show my appreciation to my hard-working administrative assistant, my boss, the guys who shovel snow at my worksite, my colleagues, my mailman, the guy at Staples who spent a lot of time helping me get something--but I'm not EXPECTED TO pay them their salary directly.

 

Off my soapbox!

 

I know you used the word directly. My one and only point is that you are paying for it regardless or whether it is built into the cruise fare, added as a service charge, or offered as a tip. I don't really care, and I'm not interested in arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I'm paying for it regardless of the mechanism. Ultimately my bank account is unable to distinguish among the possible payment methods.

[Meg67]

Hi everyone

Myself, my hubby and daughter are cruising for the 1st time in April on Independence of the seas.( we are from UK)

 

I have read a lot of these forums on various topics so I am prepared.

 

I booked the cruise on a whim through a travel agent, and not much was explained to me. I am concerned about the amount of tipping expected, as it would work out roughly £200 GBP for the three of us which is a hell of a lot. I am self employed and would have to work a lot of hours to earn that sort of money.

 

We did book on a budget, and i do expect to give some tips, but cant afford what they expect. Had my travel agent made me aware of this extra cost, I would have thought twice. However, we've booked now, we are going and thats that!!

 

I think the culture of tipping is completely different in the UK, so I didnt really think about it.

 

Can anyone comment,and if i dont pay the required amount, will the staff treat us badly??

 

Thanks

 

I'm not saying it's the right or wrong thing to do but if you go to the pursers desk when you arrive you can ask for the tips to be removed from your ships account..... That way you can choose how much you can afford to tip....

 

Kind regards

 

Meg x x x