Dark Side Craps Strategies

[Deckhawk]

All,

 

I thought I'd start a thread on Dark Side craps strategies. From being on this board the last few years I've only seen a few people post about playing the dark side. Would be interested to hear your strategies and other thoughts related to it. I've got a few strategies to share, but want to hear yours before mine get blown out of the water. :)

[F22Smitty]

Like I said in the other thread, I sort of was forced over to the dark side after I lost my butt and the table never warmed up. When the average throw is 3 or 4 ya got to do something.

 

After playing $25 on don't for an hour and walkin with $500+, it worked for me. I did realize that it is basically boring and more relaxed, but when your collecting and filling your rack, how boring can it be.:D

 

I was actually shooting against myself from time to time and makin money.

[Chakuna]

What is this dark side you speak of???

[Casino Player]

What is this dark side you speak of???

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO Chakuna: The dark side is for players who play the Don't Pass and/or Don't Come.

[F22Smitty]

What is this dark side you speak of???

 

It's what Casino Player said. You are betting that the shooter will throw a 7 before he/she throws the point.

 

What is really neat, is you can pick up your DON'T bet after the point is set. What a deal.:D

[MrCo9]

What is really neat, is you can pick up your DON'T bet after the point is set. What a deal.:D

WHY on earth would you ever do that?? You're guaranteed $$ when you're on the Don't pass and a point has been established. Place the point for an amount that will win more than your Don't Pass bet and laugh all the way to the cage.

 

If you're betting $25 on the Don't Pass.. Place the 4 or 10 for 15 or $20 and you're guranteed to win $2, $5, $10 or $14. Place the 5 or 9 for $20 and you're going to make $5 or $3. Place the 6 or 8 for $25 and you're going to win $1 or $3. May not be exciting, but why pass on a money making opportunity? You already survived the roll when you're at an 8:3 disadvantage. Leave your bet there and place the point for guaranteed $$.

[Casino Player]

It's what Casino Player said. You are betting that the shooter will throw a 7 before he/she throws the point.

 

What is really neat, is you can pick up your DON'T bet after the point is set. What a deal.:D

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO F22Smitty: If you bet the Don't why would you pick up your bet? No matter what number is the point the seven has more combinations that could come out. On a 4/10 point you have 3 chances to make the point and 6 chances of making a 7. On a point of 5/9 you have 4 chances of making your point and 6 chances of making a 7. On a point of 6/8 you have 5 chances of making your point and 6 chances to make a 7. So why pick up a bet? Wouldn't it be better to make a corresponding place bet so you win either way?

[F22Smitty]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO F22Smitty: If you bet the Don't why would you pick up your bet? No matter what number is the point the seven has more combinations that could come out. On a 4/10 point you have 3 chances to make the point and 6 chances of making a 7. On a point of 5/9 you have 4 chances of making your point and 6 chances of making a 7. On a point of 6/8 you have 5 chances of making your point and 6 chances to make a 7. So why pick up a bet? Wouldn't it be better to make a corresponding place bet so you win either way?

 

Hell, I don't know. Like I said, I was just following the two guys that were always playing the don't, and I had no idea what I was doing other than collecting chips.

 

When two guys come up and lay $1000 down each for chips, I'm going to follow. They would always pick up there bets on a point of 6 or 8. Every time these guys showed up they would buy in for $1000.

 

All I can say is that they thought me another way of playing craps.:D

[cb at sea]

When you bet on Don't Pass/Don't Come....you're betting WITH the casino, who usually wins!!!! True, you don't get the same odds, but YOUR odds of winning are greater, since the CASINO always wins in the end!

 

Just don't cheer when the rest of the table loses...they'll hate you!

[Casino Player]

When you bet on Don't Pass/Don't Come....you're betting WITH the casino, who usually wins!!!! True, you don't get the same odds, but YOUR odds of winning are greater, since the CASINO always wins in the end!

 

Just don't cheer when the rest of the table loses...they'll hate you!

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO cb at sea: When you bet on the Pass Line/Come area or the Don't Pass/Don't Come you are playing against the Casino. If your bet wins the Casino pays your bet. If you lose regardless of whether you play the Pass Line or Don't they collect your losing bets.

 

When you bet the Pass Line/Come then you are taking the odds. When you bet the Don't Pass/Don't Come you are laying the odds. Your chances of winning are better if you play the Don't because of the relationship of the point number to the seven. The Don't player is on the disadvantage on the Pass Line/Come rolls.

[Casino Player]

Hell, I don't know. Like I said, I was just following the two guys that were always playing the don't, and I had no idea what I was doing other than collecting chips.

 

When two guys come up and lay $1000 down each for chips, I'm going to follow. They would always pick up there bets on a point of 6 or 8. Every time these guys showed up they would buy in for $1000.

 

All I can say is that they thought me another way of playing craps.:D

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO F22Smitty:That is about the same amount I buy in for most times. If you were at the table you would be doing whatever I would do? Doesn't sound like a good way to play a casino game. However, once the point is established the Don't bets have a slight advantage over Right or Do bets. You are at a disadvantage on Pass Line and Come bets until those points are established.

[AndyTheK]

CP and Smitty: this talk about who has the advantage reminds me of a conversation I was in about 40 years ago (!) Two of us were discussing the casino advantage on craps. Another guy came over and said he always played the Don't. His reason was that since the casino had a 1.4% advantage iover the Pass player, then when he played the Don't, he had that advantage. We said, "what about the push on 12?" His answer (I swear) was "That doesn't happen very often"!

 

Casinos love that kind of thinking.

 

Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.

[Deckhawk]

It's what Casino Player said. You are betting that the shooter will throw a 7 before he/she throws the point.

 

What is really neat, is you can pick up your DON'T bet after the point is set. What a deal.:D

 

I won't continue to lay the hammer down on you like everyone else did...but I will suggest that if you your Don't Pass or Don't Come bet lands on six or eight and you don't think you will win it, just place the 6 or 8 for the same amount of money. For example, you have $30 on the don't pass and a six is rolled as the point. Place the six for $30. If a seven comes you win $30 and lose $30 = net Zero. If a six is rolled, you win $35, lose $30 = net $5. By not moving the number you lose a potential gain of $5 with no risk.

 

The point of the above posts is that you can't lose....so why not make a place bet that offsets your Don't Pass bet. Even when 6/8 are the point you have a better than 50% chance of winning (7/6 that you will win).

[Deckhawk]

So back to the original point of the thread - any good strategies for don't players that anyone wants to share?

[LSTEFFA]

CP and Smitty: this talk about who has the advantage reminds me of a conversation I was in about 40 years ago (!) Two of us were discussing the casino advantage on craps. Another guy came over and said he always played the Don't. His reason was that since the casino had a 1.4% advantage iover the Pass player, then when he played the Don't, he had that advantage. We said, "what about the push on 12?" His answer (I swear) was "That doesn't happen very often"!

 

Casinos love that kind of thinking.

 

Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy.

The old "BAR 12"....it's how the casino pays the light bill in the long run.

[F22Smitty]

I won't continue to lay the hammer down on you like everyone else did...but I will suggest that if you your Don't Pass or Don't Come bet lands on six or eight and you don't think you will win it, just place the 6 or 8 for the same amount of money. For example, you have $30 on the don't pass and a six is rolled as the point. Place the six for $30. If a seven comes you win $30 and lose $30 = net Zero. If a six is rolled, you win $35, lose $30 = net $5. By not moving the number you lose a potential gain of $5 with no risk.

 

The point of the above posts is that you can't lose....so why not make a place bet that offsets your Don't Pass bet. Even when 6/8 are the point you have a better than 50% chance of winning (7/6 that you will win).

 

Thank you Deckhawk, the light has finally come on. Thank you. I now understand what others here were telling me. :D

 

As for the others hammering me, I don't worry about that stuff, he!! I'm to old. I'm just here to have fun and learn sometimes, which I did with your post. Thanks.

[sailor_jimc]

Ok.. the whole "place the point" idea seems valid and it makes sense when you have large "don't" bets.. but looking at $5 or $10 don'ts on a 6/8 point, you can't place equivalent bets to cover. At $5 you would have to risk $6 so you are going to lose $1 if the 6 hits. At a $10 don't you can place $6 or $12 which again doesn't fully cover you. So the first bet level this works is $30.... that is a pretty pricey betting strategy considering the number of times a 7 will take it from you of the come out rolls versus making $5 a bet hedging it like that.

 

I guess I am not sold on the idea...or am I missing something? Wouldn't be the first time...:D

[odiesam]

I have been following this thread also and am confused. When betting the Don't Pass and the 6/8 becomes the point, rather than hedge it with a place bet, why not just remove your Don't Pass bet (I believe that IS allowed, right?) instead and wait it out?

[Deckhawk]

Ok.. the whole "place the point" idea seems valid and it makes sense when you have large "don't" bets.. but looking at $5 or $10 don'ts on a 6/8 point, you can't place equivalent bets to cover. At $5 you would have to risk $6 so you are going to lose $1 if the 6 hits. At a $10 don't you can place $6 or $12 which again doesn't fully cover you. So the first bet level this works is $30.... that is a pretty pricey betting strategy considering the number of times a 7 will take it from you of the come out rolls versus making $5 a bet hedging it like that.

 

I guess I am not sold on the idea...or am I missing something? Wouldn't be the first time...:D

 

So based on the odds of the don't pass/don't come, once you get past the first roll (when there is a point of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10) your odds are over 50% to win...so shouldn't need to hedge at all. However, some don't players like to hedge on the 6/8 because it comes up more frequently than the 4/5/9/10. So my initial recommendation is don't hedge at all on the 6/8. However, if the table is only so-so, or you just arrived and want to get the flow of the table a bit more before you start to really bet, you may want to hedge, think about a full hedge (as I describe above - placing the same on the point that is on the DP) or a partial hedge.

 

For a $10 example, if you have $10 on the don't pass and a 6 is the point, here are some options:

 

1) No hedge - When Seven comes you win $10. 6 and you lose $10. I play this sometimes if the table has been cold for a while with lots of 7's.

 

2) Place $6 on six: 6 comes and you lose $10, but win $7 = net -3; 7 comes and you lose $6, but win $10 = net $4. With this strategy you are risking 3 to win 4...which isn't a bad bet. However, you are taking a winning position (you will win over 50% of the time with #1) and turning it into a smaller win/loss situation. I normally play this strategy, but with slightly higher bets so the net is a bit better. (example: $60 don't pass bet with an $18 hedge)

 

3) Place $1 hard 6. If hard six comes you win 9 and lose $10. If easy 6 comes you lose $11, if seven comes you win $10, lose $1 = net $9. I don't like this strategy, but by betting hard six you remove one of the possibilities of the six...and you only lose $1 on your hedge instead of $6 when the seven comes.

 

4) Remove your don't pass bet - stupid. As discussed above.

 

Remember: Seven has OVER 50% chance (7/6) of coming. By pure odds, #1 is the best strategy. I like #2 if you are a conservative player and don't have problem with making small gains over a longer period of time. #2 doesn't work if you like to take big chances. If you like to take big chances, just go with #1....

 

Not sure if this helps at all...

[odiesam]

Pardon me as I do not see how removing the don't pass bet is "stupid". Screwing around with hedge bets to win $1 here and $3 there just don't seem worth the effort to me, especially since this strategy is new to someone like myself. Plus I was under the impression the guys working the craps tables on cruise ships are not as well-versed in the various payouts as those in Vegas.

[AndyTheK]

Pardon me as I do not see how removing the don't pass bet is "stupid". Screwing around with hedge bets to win $1 here and $3 there just don't seem worth the effort to me, especially since this strategy is new to someone like myself. Plus I was under the impression the guys working the craps tables on cruise ships are not as well-versed in the various payouts as those in Vegas.

Instead of the term "stupid" think of it as "unwise" (less emotional baggage). It's unwise because you are essentially taking even money when the odds are in your favor. Over 36 times of the point showing, you are getting zero when you would be getting $10 if you just left the bet there. True, there's a risk involved, but aren't you there to gamble? The fact that the odds are on your favor (once you have avoided the comeout disaster) is the reason the casinos allow you to remove the bet. They sure don't allow that when the odds are in their favor!

 

Dealer experience isn't in play here. The bets in the hedge are each simple and very common. It wouldn't cause them any confusion.

 

Personally, I'm a little uncomfortable with hedging because I feel (and just a feeling, no mathematical backing at all) that I'm playing against myself. I don't mean what some people mean when they say "dark side is betting against yourself". It'is not. You're just betting on a different outcome!

[odiesam]

Thanks - I see what you are saying.

[Deckhawk]

Thanks - I see what you are saying.

 

When you play the dark side, the first roll is always the worst for you. The odds say that a 7 or 11 will come and you will lose. However, if you can get past that first roll, the odds are extremely in your favor...meaning - you are in a winning position. So by not moving your bet to a 6/8 you put yourself right back in the losing position of having to deal with that first bet.

 

If you really don't want to move your bets, place the exact same amount on the number. Bet $12 on the don't pass and then place the number for $12...at least you will make $2 if the number hits (you can't lose in this situation)...it's much better than not moving at all.

[odiesam]

So are you guys also backing up your Don't Pass bet with odds? Since the payouts are inverse to the Pass bets, it almost seems to make more sense to just put a big Don't Pass bet out there with no odds - maybe unless a 4 or 10 is the point. Does that make sense?

 

How about Don't Come bets? Do you also do those? I am not sure I like being exposed continually to that Come Out roll risk.

 

Thanks - we will probably start out betting our usual Pass/Come with odds but it's nice to have some knowledge about betting the "Dark Side" should the tables become cold!

[F22Smitty]

So are you guys also backing up your Don't Pass bet with odds? Since the payouts are inverse to the Pass bets, it almost seems to make more sense to just put a big Don't Pass bet out there with no odds - maybe unless a 4 or 10 is the point. Does that make sense?

 

How about Don't Come bets? Do you also do those? I am not sure I like being exposed continually to that Come Out roll risk.

 

Thanks - we will probably start out betting our usual Pass/Come with odds but it's nice to have some knowledge about betting the "Dark Side" should the tables become cold!

 

I didn't play any odds on my $25 Don't bet. I wasn't ready to lay that much out when I'm on a gambling budget.

 

Like I said, I played Pass, Don't, Pass, Don't the whole cruise. I let the table tell me or the shooter tell me what to do, and it worked.

 

The problem was, when the table is cold, it's hard to keep shooter at the table. We (the don't players) did shoot against our self's and did win some money, but we were just flipping the dice down the table. Very boring.:D