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Dark Side Craps Strategies


Deckhawk

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So are you guys also backing up your Don't Pass bet with odds? Since the payouts are inverse to the Pass bets, it almost seems to make more sense to just put a big Don't Pass bet out there with no odds - maybe unless a 4 or 10 is the point. Does that make sense?

 

How about Don't Come bets? Do you also do those? I am not sure I like being exposed continually to that Come Out roll risk.

 

Thanks - we will probably start out betting our usual Pass/Come with odds but it's nice to have some knowledge about betting the "Dark Side" should the tables become cold!

 

Generally I don't back-up my don't pass bets with odds either (especially if I'm hedging). However, when the table starts to turn cold, I try to get as much money out there as I can...sometimes even laying numbers to get the 7.

 

As far as Don't Come (DC) bets, I think this is the reason that the dark side is so powerful. And, you are right, you are always exposed to the 7. One way to protect yourself is to change your betting amounts. Example:

 

1) come out roll - $20 bet on DP - point is made

2) Next Roll - $10 on DC - If seven comes, you lose $10, win $20, if another number is made...

3) Next Roll - $15 on DC - If seen comes, you lose $15, win $25, if another number is made...

4) Hope for 7.

 

I normally replace once or maybe twice if there is an 11 thrown or if one of the numbers is thrown twice. By varying your bet amount you ensure that if the seven comes after a point is established you are still going to win something....this is much better than betting 20, then 20, then 20...because you need to get two bets out there before you make any $$.

 

Another way to protect against the 7 is to lay odds on your DP bet. For example:

 

1) Come out roll - $20 bet on dp - point is established. Lay single odds behind

2) next roll - $20 bet on dc - if 7 comes you win $40 and lose $20 (you still win something).

 

basically, anytime you have something on the DC you keep you odds there. When you get one or two numbers through the DC, you can remove your odds...

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So are you guys also backing up your Don't Pass bet with odds? Since the payouts are inverse to the Pass bets, it almost seems to make more sense to just put a big Don't Pass bet out there with no odds - maybe unless a 4 or 10 is the point. Does that make sense?

 

How about Don't Come bets? Do you also do those? I am not sure I like being exposed continually to that Come Out roll risk.

 

Thanks - we will probably start out betting our usual Pass/Come with odds but it's nice to have some knowledge about betting the "Dark Side" should the tables become cold!

 

Two other ways to do protect against the 7:

 

1) No action on the come out roll. If the point is 6/8 - lay no 6/8 for $25 or $31 for 5/9 or $41 for 4/10 (all win $20), then place $15 on the DC.

2) If seven comes you lose $15 and win $20. If another number comes, remove your lay bet and place $10 on the DC.

3) If seven comes, you win $15 and lose $10... next role place $5 - $10 on the DC... and so-on...

 

Basically you protect your DC bet with other bets...always winning if there is a seven.

 

The last way that I know is to play both the Pass and Don't Pass line. If you place $10 on the don't pass and pass line each, you only lose on the 12. Once a point is established, you can take odds on the don't pass and place a bet on the DC that is protected by the odds.

 

Hope all this makes sense. Does anyone else have any suggestions on strategy...?

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Pardon me as I do not see how removing the don't pass bet is "stupid". Screwing around with hedge bets to win $1 here and $3 there just don't seem worth the effort to me, especially since this strategy is new to someone like myself. Plus I was under the impression the guys working the craps tables on cruise ships are not as well-versed in the various payouts as those in Vegas.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO odiesam: You are playing the Don't Pass. The Point is six. You now have six combinations for the seven to come out with five combinations for the six to come out. The odds are in favor of seven coming up before the point is rolled again. Is this a guarantee that every shooter will roll a seven before a six? No of course not. To hedge a bet a player is willing to win or lose less than if a hedge isn't taken, but, you won't be wiped out as quick regardless of a hot or cold table.

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Two other ways to do protect against the 7:

 

1) No action on the come out roll. If the point is 6/8 - lay no 6/8 for $25 or $31 for 5/9 or $41 for 4/10 (all win $20), then place $15 on the DC.

2) If seven comes you lose $15 and win $20. If another number comes, remove your lay bet and place $10 on the DC.

3) If seven comes, you win $15 and lose $10... next role place $5 - $10 on the DC... and so-on...

 

Basically you protect your DC bet with other bets...always winning if there is a seven.

 

The last way that I know is to play both the Pass and Don't Pass line. If you place $10 on the don't pass and pass line each, you only lose on the 12. Once a point is established, you can take odds on the don't pass and place a bet on the DC that is protected by the odds.

 

Hope all this makes sense. Does anyone else have any suggestions on strategy...?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO Deckhawk: A way of playing the Don't is to make a Don't Pass bet. If a 7 or 11 is rolled and you lose then replace it with another bet the same size. If you lose on a natural again then wait until the next shooter comes up. When the shooter establishes a point just wait until either they make the point or seven out.If a shooter makes his point just wait until the next shooter comes. Of course if a table is hot then you might be waiting a while for another shooter.

 

Another way of playing is to make Pass Line/Don't Pass Line bets for the same amount. Then play the odds on whatever side you wish. The object here is to win or lose on odds. You almost negate the House edge on Pass Line/Come bets with the only House edge being on the craps 12 which has a one in 36 chance of coming up. Disadvantage is if you play this way with odds on the Pass Line/Come bets if you have a cold table you will lose your odds bets.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am back from my Carnival Freedom cruise and I am a dark side convert. Started out playing the Pass and Come bets with odds but I was just grinding it. Switched to the dark side and came out ahead. Put a big stack of chips out there but pulled back my bet when a 6 or 8 came out. It is a slower way of playing but that 7 seemed to always come up and the 2 and 3 came up quite a bit on the come out. It worked for me - thanks for all of the advice!

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I am back from my Carnival Freedom cruise and I am a dark side convert. Started out playing the Pass and Come bets with odds but I was just grinding it. Switched to the dark side and came out ahead. Put a big stack of chips out there but pulled back my bet when a 6 or 8 came out. It is a slower way of playing but that 7 seemed to always come up and the 2 and 3 came up quite a bit on the come out. It worked for me - thanks for all of the advice!

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO odiesam: First, did you have a good time on your cruise? There are times when you should play the dark side. If it seems like numbers aren't coming out, then, play the dark side. You should not pull back a bet on the six or eight though. The odds are still in favor of a seven being rolled 6 chances for a seven and five for a six.I like to buy bets from dark side bettors who want to pull their bet when a six or eight comes up as the point.

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Had a great time on the cruise. I pulled back on the 6 and 8 because I put a pretty decent stack of chips out there and just didn't want the odds that close. Plus I was playing at a table with one other guy who had place bets on 6 and 8 - he was a real decent guy - so when I pulled back my bets when the 6 or 8 was the point, I would throw a dollar chip on the hardways (6 or 8) so we could root for each other. I felt bad because once I started playing the don't he started losing.

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Had a great time on the cruise. I pulled back on the 6 and 8 because I put a pretty decent stack of chips out there and just didn't want the odds that close. Plus I was playing at a table with one other guy who had place bets on 6 and 8 - he was a real decent guy - so when I pulled back my bets when the 6 or 8 was the point, I would throw a dollar chip on the hardways (6 or 8) so we could root for each other. I felt bad because once I started playing the don't he started losing.

 

I used to feel bad when I first started...but I think winning a lot of money helped me to get over feeling bad. ha. I'm not sure why people think that dark siders are playing "against" the shooter. In reality, we are all just playing against the casino and basing it off of what happens on the dice. Occassionally someone will annoy me and I'll start calling out $6-hoping 7's or $7 any 7 just to be annoying back, but I really think we are all just playing against the casino.

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Not to completely change the subject, but something I notice all the time as a dark side player that makes me wonder if Do players know what they are doing:

 

After a come-out roll and a few numbers hitting and then a point, many of the Do players have come bets still on the board. For the 2nd come-out roll, why don't all of the Do players place max odds behind all of their come bets? It's a free roll, if seven hits, they get it all back anyways. This is another bet that I like to "buy" from people (at least for a roll). You have a free roll at max odds...most are too busy picking up their pass-line money...

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Not to completely change the subject, but something I notice all the time as a dark side player that makes me wonder if Do players know what they are doing:

 

After a come-out roll and a few numbers hitting and then a point, many of the Do players have come bets still on the board. For the 2nd come-out roll, why don't all of the Do players place max odds behind all of their come bets? It's a free roll, if seven hits, they get it all back anyways. This is another bet that I like to "buy" from people (at least for a roll). You have a free roll at max odds...most are too busy picking up their pass-line money...

Wait a minute... If I understand correct;y. on a comeout roll, the come odds are by default not working. True, if 7 hits, the money comes back. But if the number hits, the odds are not paid, just the flat bet - the odds bet is returned without being paid! If you call the bet working, you'll be paid the odds if the number hits, but lose it on 7. Can't have it both ways. It's not a free bet.
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Not to completely change the subject, but something I notice all the time as a dark side player that makes me wonder if Do players know what they are doing: Most Do.

 

After a come-out roll and a few numbers hitting and then a point, many of the Do players have come bets still on the board. For the 2nd come-out roll, why don't all of the Do players place max odds behind all of their come bets? It's a free roll, if seven hits, they get it all back anyways. This is another bet that I like to "buy" from people (at least for a roll). You have a free roll at max odds...most are too busy picking up their pass-line money...

What do you mean you like "buy" it from people? Is there a casino somewhere that is allowing you to take odds on someone else's come bets?? I'm beginning to see why you love the darkside SO much, you're clueless as to the Do side. ;-).

 

Wait a minute... If I understand correctly, on a comeout roll, the come odds are by default not working. True, if 7 hits, the money comes back. But if the number hits, the odds are not paid, just the flat bet - the odds bet is returned without being paid! If you call the bet working, you'll be paid the odds if the number hits, but lose it on 7. Can't have it both ways. It's not a free bet.
(edited for grammar correctness) You are correct wise one of the desert. The odds are off and only the flat bets are in action. Unless they are called working, then the entire bet has a chance to win or lose. No such thing as a free lunch in the casino.
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If you are going to insult me, I prefer it being done properly. Thanks for the edit. :)

 

It makes sense now that you correct me about it being a flat bet, but last time I was in Vegas I saw a come out paid w/odds at least 3 times in one of the strip casinos...hence why I thought the Do betters didn't know what they were doing. Unless I was seeing something, or maybe the dealer was just messing up, maybe an an "always on" call. Not really sure why they were paying odds. Twice I gave the guy next to me money on his odds and it hit...weird - and I wasn't even drinking.

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Most likely they had told them the come bets were always working. Maybe you did not hear it called. I doubt the dealer would have made that mistake more than once without the boxman catching it. Unless you saw him paying the flat bet and giving back the odds at the same time and confusing it with him having the odds paid too....

 

I want to find the casino that pays the odds on a point number being made but gives them back on a natural! They would be in business for about a day... :D

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I am back from my Carnival Freedom cruise and I am a dark side convert. Started out playing the Pass and Come bets with odds but I was just grinding it. Switched to the dark side and came out ahead. Put a big stack of chips out there but pulled back my bet when a 6 or 8 came out. It is a slower way of playing but that 7 seemed to always come up and the 2 and 3 came up quite a bit on the come out. It worked for me - thanks for all of the advice!

 

That's exactly what happened to me on the Freedom in March.

 

Did you ever go back to the Pass line when the table was hot?

 

I let the table tell me which side to play and it worked out.

 

It is a boring way to play, but when the chips come your way it doesn't matter and you have time for a drink.:D

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WHY on earth would you ever do that?? You're guaranteed $$ when you're on the Don't pass and a point has been established. Place the point for an amount that will win more than your Don't Pass bet and laugh all the way to the cage.

 

If you're betting $25 on the Don't Pass.. Place the 4 or 10 for 15 or $20 and you're guranteed to win $2, $5, $10 or $14. Place the 5 or 9 for $20 and you're going to make $5 or $3. Place the 6 or 8 for $25 and you're going to win $1 or $3. May not be exciting, but why pass on a money making opportunity? You already survived the roll when you're at an 8:3 disadvantage. Leave your bet there and place the point for guaranteed $$.

Clever....

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I just got back from a cruise. I have noticed in interesting thing. This pertains to tables that have single odds, which sucks, but on a ship you are trapped. If you try to slip in one cent more when you take odds on the pass line they will catch it and tell you to take off the additional odds you have there.

 

When you play the don't pass line on a single odds table you are limited to laying enough odds that if a seven is rolled before the point you will be paid an amount that is equal to your flat bet (don't pass bet).

 

It seems you can lay more than the amount that would give you a win equal to your flat bet on single odds tables. I don't know if it is a matter of them not paying attention, ignorance, or simply not caring. Thought it was interesting. This has happened more than once. The more odds you can lay the better off you are. Especially if the point is 4 or 10 you got a real good chance of winning.

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Yo.. not sure I understand what you are saying.... how much "extra" are you getting away with laying?

 

Also, how do they enforce this for say a $5 min don't pass with a 5/9 point? You can't lay an amount that you would need to get the even $5 flat bet....unless they let you use .50 chips... maybe they let you lay more on the 5 and 9 so that you can be paid correct odds? So if you are doing DP bets you need to play $10 minimum if you want to be paid correctly for 5/9 points...

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Yo.. not sure I understand what you are saying.... how much "extra" are you getting away with laying?

 

Also, how do they enforce this for say a $5 min don't pass with a 5/9 point? You can't lay an amount that you would need to get the even $5 flat bet....unless they let you use .50 chips... maybe they let you lay more on the 5 and 9 so that you can be paid correct odds? So if you are doing DP bets you need to play $10 minimum if you want to be paid correctly for 5/9 points...

Hey sailor. The amount varies. Yes, you would be correct on them allowing a little extra lay to get paid at least the flat bet. But, I have laid odds MUCH more than that amount and they didn't say a thing. Not up do double odds but maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of the way at times and it was in multiples of 3 on a 5/9 point. I figured if I put up that much in odds (double) they would say something as I bet more than 5 dollars on don't pass. Very weird. Only an observation.

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Perhaps, and this is only a guess. I generally make bets for the dealers early in my game. Nothing crazy but a heck of a lot more than everyone else which is usually NOTHING. I will have my bets going and will toss 4 dollars and tell them inside for the dealers. I also every now and then will make bets for the boys (again much more than everyone else which is nada) if i have been playing a long time. Maybe they let me slide because of this? Who the heck knows?

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Most likely they had told them the come bets were always working. Maybe you did not hear it called. I doubt the dealer would have made that mistake more than once without the boxman catching it. Unless you saw him paying the flat bet and giving back the odds at the same time and confusing it with him having the odds paid too....

 

I want to find the casino that pays the odds on a point number being made but gives them back on a natural! They would be in business for about a day... :D

Very few Las Vegas casinos even have boxmen anymore. I work at two casinos, one on The Strip, the other on the Boulder Strip. Boulder Strip casino uses boxmen (me at times) Strip casino has 1 floorman for 1, 2 or 3 games (Depending on the night), Dealers should be good enough not to make mistakes, but they are made for tipping players all the time.

 

Clever....
YES, I am. Thanks for noticing.
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HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO Yo Eleven: Welcome back from your cruise. If you played single odds you had to go on RCCL. Where did you go and which ship did you go on? Was the food better than the last cruise on RCCL you went on?[/size]

Yup, it was Royal Caribbean and YES the food was actually GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I just got back from a cruise. I have noticed in interesting thing. This pertains to tables that have single odds, which sucks, but on a ship you are trapped. If you try to slip in one cent more when you take odds on the pass line they will catch it and tell you to take off the additional odds you have there.

 

When you play the don't pass line on a single odds table you are limited to laying enough odds that if a seven is rolled before the point you will be paid an amount that is equal to your flat bet (don't pass bet).

 

It seems you can lay more than the amount that would give you a win equal to your flat bet on single odds tables. I don't know if it is a matter of them not paying attention, ignorance, or simply not caring. Thought it was interesting. This has happened more than once. The more odds you can lay the better off you are. Especially if the point is 4 or 10 you got a real good chance of winning.

I was playing @ a 20X odds game last weekend and a don't pass better started to shoot from the dark side. He bets $25 on the don't pass...the point was four & he lays $500 in odds. He makes a $25 DC bet and rolls a 10 & lays $500 with another $25 DC bet. He rolled 5 TENS in a row and continued to lay $500 on the no ten DC bet. Finally he passed on four....we gave him an ovation as he flipped us off and walked away. The best shooter of the night from the dark side. :D

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I was playing @ a 20X odds game last weekend and a don't pass better started to shoot from the dark side. He bets $25 on the don't pass...the point was four & he lays $500 in odds. He makes a $25 DC bet and rolls a 10 & lays $500 with another $25 DC bet. He rolled 5 TENS in a row and continued to lay $500 on the no ten DC bet. Finally he passed on four....we gave him an ovation as he flipped us off and walked away. The best shooter of the night from the dark side. :D

 

Nothing worse than knocking yourself out on the dark side...

 

=-Ray-=

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